Double Wishbone Suspension
#41
Damn, where was I when this thread popped up? This is hilarious.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
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Damn, where was I when this thread popped up? This is hilarious.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
#43
Originally Posted by tarheel91' timestamp='1323226965' post='21216740
Damn, where was I when this thread popped up? This is hilarious.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
Ride height (same).
Each link of the A-arm (also determines camber, which can be modified using shims or some other system, but that's basically changing mounting points of the links, and caster).
Not talking about springs or dampers. The point is it allows for 6 independent variables in regards to how the wheel connects to the chassis to control how the wheel acts in regards to the six degrees of freedom (translational x, y, z and rotational x, y, z). Basically 6 equations, 6 unknowns. Makes for theoretically perfect optimization, not that that's an easy or even possible task practically.
#44
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Originally Posted by rockville' timestamp='1323232599' post='21216961
[quote name='tarheel91' timestamp='1323226965' post='21216740']
Damn, where was I when this thread popped up? This is hilarious.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
Damn, where was I when this thread popped up? This is hilarious.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
Ride height (same).
Each link of the A-arm (also determines camber, which can be modified using shims or some other system, but that's basically changing mounting points of the links, and caster).
Not talking about springs or dampers. The point is it allows for 6 independent variables in regards to how the wheel connects to the chassis to control how the wheel acts in regards to the six degrees of freedom (translational x, y, z and rotational x, y, z). Basically 6 equations, 6 unknowns. Makes for theoretically perfect optimization, not that that's an easy or even possible task practically.
[/quote]
OK, I think I get what you are saying but really all suspension systems control the wheels in 6DOF, if not you have a really bad problem! I mean in theory you can match almost all double wishbone geometries with a swing arm setup. It's just that the actual swing arm needed would be impractical.
The exception would be the parallel model but you are unlike to ever want that setup. I would also note that multi-link setups, as used on the rear of racecars for years are very good. A double wishbone setup is actually a subset of multi-link. It just so happens that, geometrically speaking, two links meet at the same pivot point thus forming a wishbone.
These days it appears that race cars are largely A-arm designs in back vs the older multi-link setups. However, those older multi-link setups again closely approximated A-arms. I think this is less true of some automotive setups.
#45
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Originally Posted by Mr.E.G.' timestamp='1321741356' post='21170821
and took it to mean that Honda invented the double wishbone
Anything older?
According to Wikipedia it was Packard, yes Packard in 1935. Very old, but good design. The F1 tech used on Honda is just marketing BS. Like NASCAR tech used in the new Camry, like the Bush Camry commercial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_wishbone_suspension
#46
Originally Posted by tarheel91' timestamp='1323234206' post='21217010
[quote name='rockville' timestamp='1323232599' post='21216961']
[quote name='tarheel91' timestamp='1323226965' post='21216740']
Damn, where was I when this thread popped up? This is hilarious.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
[quote name='tarheel91' timestamp='1323226965' post='21216740']
Damn, where was I when this thread popped up? This is hilarious.
As a random FYI, engineers like double wish bone suspension because you have 6 variables at each wheel to play with, and all dynamics systems have 6 degrees of freedom. It makes for easy optimization. That's where all the pluses for double wishbone come from.
Ride height (same).
Each link of the A-arm (also determines camber, which can be modified using shims or some other system, but that's basically changing mounting points of the links, and caster).
Not talking about springs or dampers. The point is it allows for 6 independent variables in regards to how the wheel connects to the chassis to control how the wheel acts in regards to the six degrees of freedom (translational x, y, z and rotational x, y, z). Basically 6 equations, 6 unknowns. Makes for theoretically perfect optimization, not that that's an easy or even possible task practically.
[/quote]
OK, I think I get what you are saying but really all suspension systems control the wheels in 6DOF, if not you have a really bad problem! I mean in theory you can match almost all double wishbone geometries with a swing arm setup. It's just that the actual swing arm needed would be impractical.
The exception would be the parallel model but you are unlike to ever want that setup. I would also note that multi-link setups, as used on the rear of racecars for years are very good. A double wishbone setup is actually a subset of multi-link. It just so happens that, geometrically speaking, two links meet at the same pivot point thus forming a wishbone.
These days it appears that race cars are largely A-arm designs in back vs the older multi-link setups. However, those older multi-link setups again closely approximated A-arms. I think this is less true of some automotive setups.
[/quote]
From what I understand, as I haven't spent anywhere near as much time on other systems as opposed to double wishbone, some variables aren't entirely independent in other systems.
#47
Originally Posted by tiger1964' timestamp='1323203725' post='21215716
[quote name='Mr.E.G.' timestamp='1321741356' post='21170821']
and took it to mean that Honda invented the double wishbone
and took it to mean that Honda invented the double wishbone
Anything older?
[/quote]
Makes sense, but I was thinking (and posted) about all-four-corners, not so sure about Packard on that. Eh, I've only read one history of Packard, I could be wrong.
#48
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I'm not sure which was the first car to have A-arms in back. While plenty of race cars in the late 60s had A-arm like multi-link setups, I can't think of many that had what I guess I would call a true A-arm (one arm that's a "v" and the other is either an "H" or V+ a toe link. Production cars had multi-link rear ends in the 1960s. The Corvette for instance had one though its rear upright was rigidly attached to a trailing link. I can't recall the exact layout of the Jag or Lotus IRS's that came out at the same time. During that time the German setups were largely swing or trailing arm based.
#49
Any trick suspension design on a Honda F1 car was not a Honda trick. Again, that would be a trick of Williams or McLaren. Honda might use smaller diameter clutches but probably not. The flywheel of most production cars could be made lighter but the manufactures don't want to. A heavier flywheel makes the engine run smoother. That would be a trick that makes sense in racing but not for a road car, much like the design of F1 suspension systems.
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Originally Posted by rockville' timestamp='1322259085' post='21185873
Any trick suspension design on a Honda F1 car was not a Honda trick. Again, that would be a trick of Williams or McLaren. Honda might use smaller diameter clutches but probably not. The flywheel of most production cars could be made lighter but the manufactures don't want to. A heavier flywheel makes the engine run smoother. That would be a trick that makes sense in racing but not for a road car, much like the design of F1 suspension systems.
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