Logical upgrade from my S2000?
05-14-2015, 09:34 PM
#1
Logical upgrade from my S2000?
I'm sure there are plenty of similar threads out there, but I wanted some insight on my specific situation. I've owned my AP2 for 2 years now, and plan to own it for at least another 2 years. It was a childhood dream car, and it never disappoints when I get behind the wheel. I've driven over 40 different enthusiast cars (just on the street, not track) and nothing from a 997 Carrera to a Camaro ZL1 to an E92 M3 has put a smile on my face the way the S2000 has... except maybe a brief test drive I had of a 1991 NSX.
The NSX happens to be my #1 dream car, and I was one signature away from purchasing this fairly clean red NA1 example I tested about 1 month before I bought the S. But I flaked on the seller last minute, because the reality of the finances finally hit me. With only half a year of full-time job experience, I just couldn't afford it no matter how badly I wanted it. I would have been living paycheck-to-paycheck for the next 6 months just to park the NSX in my apartment complex while paying almost 2k monthly rent. In hindsight, I obviously made the right choice. The S2000 was a better platform to learn how to drive and wrench on cars. And it was 11k cheaper to purchase at the time, with the same miles.
Flash forward two years, and I've got dozens of canyon runs and 5 autocross events under my belt, and I'm going to my 2nd track day in a couple of weeks. I'm still in the early stages of improving my skills as a driver, so I have no plans to retire the S any time soon. But it never hurts to look to the future.
What's the next logical upgrade for someone like me in a few years time? I feel confident asking this so early because I have no intent to buy a new car off the showroom floor. New cars don't do much for me. I want the car I pick to fill the same holes the S2000 will leave behind, but better in almost every way. The S2000 is not my daily driver. I drive it at most once a week, either in the canyons or on the track, and average less than 6k miles a year. Budget for my next car will be sub-$40k.
What I love about the S that I want in my next car:
1) Responsive NA motor
2) Light weight and balance for sharp cornering and braking on the track
3) Immediate response to my inputs
4) Reliable but also easy to wrench on
5) Plenty of aftermarket support
6) A solid enthusiast community
What I want that the S lacks:
1) More power with comparable or superior handling
2) Exclusivity - I want it to look and feel special even before starting the engine
3) A different but still rewarding ownership experience
4) Value - I want the car to retain its value at least as well as the S
Cars I've considered:
1) NA1 NSX - with these appreciating as quickly as they are, I'm not sure that sub-$40k will get me a clean example in a few years. Also, I know the power and exclusivity factors are both there over the S, but will the handling of a 25 year old car be as sharp as I'm used to? Or am I really kidding myself that the NSX is the ultimate endgame car for me?
2) 997 Carrera S - should outperform a stock 91 NSX in just about every way, but unsure how reliability and aftermarket support compare
3) E46 M3 - never driven one and could be a nightmare to maintain but ticks most of the boxes, but unsure about the community
What else should I consider, and what are the pros/cons of each?
6/4/15: My quarter life crisis in a nutshell.
6/22/15 Update:
Drove a modified NSX and loved it. I've decided to save up for one to replace the S2000.
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/112...#entry23655761
7/2/15 Update:
Sold my beloved S2000 1 week ago for a great price. Bought my first 1991 NSX today, also for a great price. My life is... complete.
POV first drive video
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/112...#entry23669291
7/11/15 Update:
First 25 year old NSX quirk discovered. Hoping it's nothing serious.
7/19/15 Update:
Getting more used to the NSX in the canyons. Also revisited the S2000. Photos/videos included.
10/12/15 Update:
Finally took my NSX out on track at Laguna Seca.
11/15/15 4 Month Ownership Update:
12/13/15 2nd Track Day at MRLS
2/7/16 3rd Track Day at MRLS
4/30/16 So this just happened... again
5/8/16 Teaching my girlfriend how to drive stick in her new S2000
6/9/16 Matt Farah's One Take on my NSX
9/27/16 4th Track Day at MRLS - Oversteering and Overheating
3/19/17 Bought... Another S2000
The NSX happens to be my #1 dream car, and I was one signature away from purchasing this fairly clean red NA1 example I tested about 1 month before I bought the S. But I flaked on the seller last minute, because the reality of the finances finally hit me. With only half a year of full-time job experience, I just couldn't afford it no matter how badly I wanted it. I would have been living paycheck-to-paycheck for the next 6 months just to park the NSX in my apartment complex while paying almost 2k monthly rent. In hindsight, I obviously made the right choice. The S2000 was a better platform to learn how to drive and wrench on cars. And it was 11k cheaper to purchase at the time, with the same miles.
Flash forward two years, and I've got dozens of canyon runs and 5 autocross events under my belt, and I'm going to my 2nd track day in a couple of weeks. I'm still in the early stages of improving my skills as a driver, so I have no plans to retire the S any time soon. But it never hurts to look to the future.
What's the next logical upgrade for someone like me in a few years time? I feel confident asking this so early because I have no intent to buy a new car off the showroom floor. New cars don't do much for me. I want the car I pick to fill the same holes the S2000 will leave behind, but better in almost every way. The S2000 is not my daily driver. I drive it at most once a week, either in the canyons or on the track, and average less than 6k miles a year. Budget for my next car will be sub-$40k.
What I love about the S that I want in my next car:
1) Responsive NA motor
2) Light weight and balance for sharp cornering and braking on the track
3) Immediate response to my inputs
4) Reliable but also easy to wrench on
5) Plenty of aftermarket support
6) A solid enthusiast community
What I want that the S lacks:
1) More power with comparable or superior handling
2) Exclusivity - I want it to look and feel special even before starting the engine
3) A different but still rewarding ownership experience
4) Value - I want the car to retain its value at least as well as the S
Cars I've considered:
1) NA1 NSX - with these appreciating as quickly as they are, I'm not sure that sub-$40k will get me a clean example in a few years. Also, I know the power and exclusivity factors are both there over the S, but will the handling of a 25 year old car be as sharp as I'm used to? Or am I really kidding myself that the NSX is the ultimate endgame car for me?
2) 997 Carrera S - should outperform a stock 91 NSX in just about every way, but unsure how reliability and aftermarket support compare
3) E46 M3 - never driven one and could be a nightmare to maintain but ticks most of the boxes, but unsure about the community
What else should I consider, and what are the pros/cons of each?
6/4/15: My quarter life crisis in a nutshell.
6/22/15 Update:
Drove a modified NSX and loved it. I've decided to save up for one to replace the S2000.
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/112...#entry23655761
7/2/15 Update:
Sold my beloved S2000 1 week ago for a great price. Bought my first 1991 NSX today, also for a great price. My life is... complete.
POV first drive video
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/112...#entry23669291
7/11/15 Update:
First 25 year old NSX quirk discovered. Hoping it's nothing serious.
7/19/15 Update:
Getting more used to the NSX in the canyons. Also revisited the S2000. Photos/videos included.
10/12/15 Update:
Finally took my NSX out on track at Laguna Seca.
11/15/15 4 Month Ownership Update:
12/13/15 2nd Track Day at MRLS
2/7/16 3rd Track Day at MRLS
4/30/16 So this just happened... again
5/8/16 Teaching my girlfriend how to drive stick in her new S2000
6/9/16 Matt Farah's One Take on my NSX
9/27/16 4th Track Day at MRLS - Oversteering and Overheating
3/19/17 Bought... Another S2000
05-14-2015, 10:09 PM
#2
you should upgrade to an AP1!
kidding...
never experienced an NSX so can't comment there.
driven a wide variety of 911s. from 996 to 991 and from carrera to turbo. the NAs are decently reliable but forget about working on them yourself, huge pain. performance wise they are pretty darn good. handling wise they have a little floaty feeling in the front end which makes me nervous. power? yes. value retention? yes. exclusivity. no. the carrera S is just one step above an entry level 911. they start getting more unique when you get to GTS or 4GTS and up. but those will be tough to get for sub $40k.
also owned an E46 M3. i didn't connect with this car but i know a lot of people do. it's a nice car, just didn't have the fun factor the S2000 has. otherwise it checks most of your boxes. the boxes it doesn't check: exclusivity. value retention(arguable but i think the prices are depreciating at a normal rate). reliability(also arguable depending on how well the car was taken car of by the previous owner[s]). but repairs and parts are expensive for sure!
what about a GTR? you can get a decent one for $60k ish at this point. could be close to $40k in a few years.... just spit balling.
kidding...
never experienced an NSX so can't comment there.
driven a wide variety of 911s. from 996 to 991 and from carrera to turbo. the NAs are decently reliable but forget about working on them yourself, huge pain. performance wise they are pretty darn good. handling wise they have a little floaty feeling in the front end which makes me nervous. power? yes. value retention? yes. exclusivity. no. the carrera S is just one step above an entry level 911. they start getting more unique when you get to GTS or 4GTS and up. but those will be tough to get for sub $40k.
also owned an E46 M3. i didn't connect with this car but i know a lot of people do. it's a nice car, just didn't have the fun factor the S2000 has. otherwise it checks most of your boxes. the boxes it doesn't check: exclusivity. value retention(arguable but i think the prices are depreciating at a normal rate). reliability(also arguable depending on how well the car was taken car of by the previous owner[s]). but repairs and parts are expensive for sure!
what about a GTR? you can get a decent one for $60k ish at this point. could be close to $40k in a few years.... just spit balling.
05-14-2015, 11:02 PM
#3
you should upgrade to an AP1!
kidding...
never experienced an NSX so can't comment there.
driven a wide variety of 911s. from 996 to 991 and from carrera to turbo. the NAs are decently reliable but forget about working on them yourself, huge pain. performance wise they are pretty darn good. handling wise they have a little floaty feeling in the front end which makes me nervous. power? yes. value retention? yes. exclusivity. no. the carrera S is just one step above an entry level 911. they start getting more unique when you get to GTS or 4GTS and up. but those will be tough to get for sub $40k.
also owned an E46 M3. i didn't connect with this car but i know a lot of people do. it's a nice car, just didn't have the fun factor the S2000 has. otherwise it checks most of your boxes. the boxes it doesn't check: exclusivity. value retention(arguable but i think the prices are depreciating at a normal rate). reliability(also arguable depending on how well the car was taken car of by the previous owner[s]). but repairs and parts are expensive for sure!
what about a GTR? you can get a decent one for $60k ish at this point. could be close to $40k in a few years.... just spit balling.
kidding...
never experienced an NSX so can't comment there.
driven a wide variety of 911s. from 996 to 991 and from carrera to turbo. the NAs are decently reliable but forget about working on them yourself, huge pain. performance wise they are pretty darn good. handling wise they have a little floaty feeling in the front end which makes me nervous. power? yes. value retention? yes. exclusivity. no. the carrera S is just one step above an entry level 911. they start getting more unique when you get to GTS or 4GTS and up. but those will be tough to get for sub $40k.
also owned an E46 M3. i didn't connect with this car but i know a lot of people do. it's a nice car, just didn't have the fun factor the S2000 has. otherwise it checks most of your boxes. the boxes it doesn't check: exclusivity. value retention(arguable but i think the prices are depreciating at a normal rate). reliability(also arguable depending on how well the car was taken car of by the previous owner[s]). but repairs and parts are expensive for sure!
what about a GTR? you can get a decent one for $60k ish at this point. could be close to $40k in a few years.... just spit balling.
How did the E46 compare to the S2000, exactly? It seems comparable in many ways, with just more of everything. More weight, but more power and more brakes.
GTR is out of the question. Even if it hit $40k in a few years, it's just not my cup of tea. I want manual, RWD, great sounding NA motor.
05-14-2015, 11:07 PM
#4
I'm not sure any car I will own will ever put a smile on my face like my S2000 when I drove it home from Oregon.
I think in most cases it would nearly take an exotic car at this point to extract that same smile out of my face.
Some people may regard the S2000 as a superior car fun wise to an NSX, ZL1 Camaro, C6 Z06, and 2015 Mustang GT, etc.
However, I'd personally consider all of the above an upgrade in performance to an S2000, unless perhaps it has a very wide, tasteful, and expensive list of modifications.
While I have not driven a new C7 Corvette, to me that would be a nice solid upgrade, though it really should be because its MSRP is basically twice that of the AP1 when it was new. I think a new C7 would be plenty capable of putting a similar smile on my face I had when I first got the S2000.
I think in most cases it would nearly take an exotic car at this point to extract that same smile out of my face.
Some people may regard the S2000 as a superior car fun wise to an NSX, ZL1 Camaro, C6 Z06, and 2015 Mustang GT, etc.
However, I'd personally consider all of the above an upgrade in performance to an S2000, unless perhaps it has a very wide, tasteful, and expensive list of modifications.
While I have not driven a new C7 Corvette, to me that would be a nice solid upgrade, though it really should be because its MSRP is basically twice that of the AP1 when it was new. I think a new C7 would be plenty capable of putting a similar smile on my face I had when I first got the S2000.
05-14-2015, 11:16 PM
#5
I'm not sure any car I will own will ever put a smile on my face like my S2000 when I drove it home from Oregon.
I think in most cases it would nearly take an exotic car at this point to extract that same smile out of my face.
Some people may regard the S2000 as a superior car fun wise to an NSX, ZL1 Camaro, C6 Z06, and 2015+ Mustang GT, etc.
However, I'd personally consider all of the above an upgrade in performance to an S2000, unless perhaps it has a very wide, tasteful, and expensive list of modifications.
While I have not driven a new C7 Corvette, to me that would be a nice solid upgrade, though it really should be because its MSRP is basically twice that of the AP1 when it was new. I think a new C7 would be plenty capable of putting a similar smile on my face I had when I first got the S2000.
I think in most cases it would nearly take an exotic car at this point to extract that same smile out of my face.
Some people may regard the S2000 as a superior car fun wise to an NSX, ZL1 Camaro, C6 Z06, and 2015+ Mustang GT, etc.
However, I'd personally consider all of the above an upgrade in performance to an S2000, unless perhaps it has a very wide, tasteful, and expensive list of modifications.
While I have not driven a new C7 Corvette, to me that would be a nice solid upgrade, though it really should be because its MSRP is basically twice that of the AP1 when it was new. I think a new C7 would be plenty capable of putting a similar smile on my face I had when I first got the S2000.
I've heard a lot of similar praise about the C7 with Z51 package. For the money, it seems like the performance RWD car to beat. And in a few years I could probably afford a used one. Maybe this is the car I need to test drive next...
05-14-2015, 11:17 PM
#6
You should get an NSX. It's the perfect car for what you described.
Any specific questions just message me. I can break down costs, set a real expectation of what you'll need to do, and answer any questions you have. I've owned S2000's the last decade, tracked for 6-7 of those years so I know the S chassis pretty well. Only recently moved onto the NA1 chassis and started messing with it.
Given what you wrote, its the car you want - but for some reason you won't outright admit it.
Good option B is probably a Cayman - but it's far from exclusive, and probably more expensive to track. Also you'd want an 09+ which I'm not sure is going to be the easiest to find sub 40k.
Any specific questions just message me. I can break down costs, set a real expectation of what you'll need to do, and answer any questions you have. I've owned S2000's the last decade, tracked for 6-7 of those years so I know the S chassis pretty well. Only recently moved onto the NA1 chassis and started messing with it.
Given what you wrote, its the car you want - but for some reason you won't outright admit it.
Good option B is probably a Cayman - but it's far from exclusive, and probably more expensive to track. Also you'd want an 09+ which I'm not sure is going to be the easiest to find sub 40k.
05-14-2015, 11:18 PM
#7
You should get an NSX. It's the perfect car for what you described.
Any specific questions just message me. I can break down costs, set a real expectation of what you'll need to do, and answer any questions you have. I've owned S2000's the last decade, tracked for 6-7 of those years so I know the S chassis pretty well. Only recently moved onto the NA1 chassis and started messing with it.
Given what you wrote, its the car you want - but for some reason you won't outright admit it.
Good option B is probably a Cayman - but it's far from exclusive, and probably more expensive to track. Also you'd want an 09+ which I'm not sure is going to be the easiest to find sub 40k.
Any specific questions just message me. I can break down costs, set a real expectation of what you'll need to do, and answer any questions you have. I've owned S2000's the last decade, tracked for 6-7 of those years so I know the S chassis pretty well. Only recently moved onto the NA1 chassis and started messing with it.
Given what you wrote, its the car you want - but for some reason you won't outright admit it.
Good option B is probably a Cayman - but it's far from exclusive, and probably more expensive to track. Also you'd want an 09+ which I'm not sure is going to be the easiest to find sub 40k.
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05-14-2015, 11:20 PM
#8
I passed on a 997 for my NA1.
In stock form, the NA1 (and really any Honda) is mega lack-luster. Once you throw the basic mods on it (wheels, shocks, boltons) the car gets dramatically better. This is no different for the NSX.
In stock form, the NA1 (and really any Honda) is mega lack-luster. Once you throw the basic mods on it (wheels, shocks, boltons) the car gets dramatically better. This is no different for the NSX.
05-15-2015, 02:44 AM
#9
Porsche Cayman or Lotus Evora are the closest cars on the market to the NSX in your price range.
05-15-2015, 05:59 AM
#10
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If you want to wrench on the car stay away from Porsche. Just look under the engine cover you'll see how little access there is to anything.
The E46 M3 is a fantastic car and worth legitimately looking into. It is fun to drive, has a huge aftermarket following, and is definitely a different experience than the S. Now, it may depend on your location, but I rarely see e46 M3's on the road and even fewer clean ones. If you have a well maintained and taken care of car with some clean mods it will stand out for sure. This brings us to value, and though values have been dropping they have pretty close to bottomed out. The e36 M3 has started going up in value which has created a floor for the e46, so you don't really have to worry about the car depreciating much more than it already has. Also, historically the M3 has a value cycle where it starts to appreciate when it gets to be about 20 years old. Now, no M3 is going to do what the e30 M3 has done value-wise, but in 5-6 years I expect a clean, relatively low mileage e46 M3 will probably be worth more than at present.
The E46 M3 is a fantastic car and worth legitimately looking into. It is fun to drive, has a huge aftermarket following, and is definitely a different experience than the S. Now, it may depend on your location, but I rarely see e46 M3's on the road and even fewer clean ones. If you have a well maintained and taken care of car with some clean mods it will stand out for sure. This brings us to value, and though values have been dropping they have pretty close to bottomed out. The e36 M3 has started going up in value which has created a floor for the e46, so you don't really have to worry about the car depreciating much more than it already has. Also, historically the M3 has a value cycle where it starts to appreciate when it gets to be about 20 years old. Now, no M3 is going to do what the e30 M3 has done value-wise, but in 5-6 years I expect a clean, relatively low mileage e46 M3 will probably be worth more than at present.