VErsion 2 Toda cams

Has anyone instaled the 2nd version of the TODA cams? I am thinking of getting a pair but I'm not too sure what the down side of the aggressive nature of these cams would be.
Beroz

Are they even out yet? Who is selling them?

Toda is selling them, According to them their first batch is out and there is only one set remaining. Also Speeding from www.bluefinracetuning.com- one of our sponsors can also get the cams....

TODA had also informed me that b'cause the cams are so aggressive,it would not be possible to install a thinner head gasket i.e the spoon HG (0.4mm).

We will be carrying these cams. They are version 2 of the spec A cams. They require valve train parts from Toda. As far as dyno specs and others we are also waiting from Toda. The first shipment should be available in mid-late June along with the next shipments of Toda Header for the s2000. PM me for availability on ordering them. We will also be able to provide tech support only to customers who order from us. We were told stritcly from TOda USA. That anyone buy these Toda parts from Grey marketing will be not able to receive their Tech support or their warranty. I will be happy to help out anyone with questions. You can PM me or give us a call.

Thank you

Jeff - Evolution
703.961.9090

one downside to more aggressive cams is a rough idle... If a bit of grit doesn't bother you, you won't see better gains aside from stroking the engine...

Rough idle won't happen with VTEC, as idle runs on the non VTEC cam lobes.

Chris

2003spa2000,
I would tend to disagree with you when you say 'you won't see better gains' . The whole idea of the cams is to enable the car the 'breath' better = gains. Whether the gains are significant when taking into account the money:gains ratio is yet to be seen after I dyno the car.....

Beroz

I think he meant that there is no better way to see gains other than to stroke the engine.


Phi

I want a pair but I am still not too sure if I can run them safe without harming the engine

I was taking to the Toda guys and they told me that Mr. Toda himself has an S and he is the one who has been pushing for the better cam (version 2). They also informed me that the cams are designed for street use and are not race cams. Longevity of the engine was taken into account when the cams were designed. One of Mr Todas request.
Also, the only difference between the spec 1 and the spec 2 is the hi cams (vtec cams), lift and duration of the lobes have been optimized, more aggressive. The lo cams are the same as the original spec 1 cams. Expect to see similar curves to the spec 1 cams before vtec but way more satisfying gains after vtec.
I think it is also worth mentioning that if emissions is an issue, you might want to reconsider the cams.


Beroz

thank you for the info, Beroz
I think I will leave them alone as i feel a bit unsafe running leaner with the Mugen ECU already.

Phi is correct... I meant that aside from stroking the engine and increasing displacement, you won't get any higher gains than if you built the internals... bolt-ons add very little, cams add quite a bit

Beroz, that's great info, thank you! If they are a street type, then idle will be fine, you just need ecu tuning...
Vetc won't save you from a rough idle after installing aftermarket product that the system wasn't built around.... I myself wanted a set of Spoon Race cams... but I think without proper reinforcement, either the car or myself would have shaken apart...

2003spa2000,
Sorry for misunderstanding you ...Yet another reason why drinking is bad for you...hangovers really don't help:D
As far as the spoon cams go, I myself was very interested in them I was going for the cams, gasket and value setup. But unfortunately the cams may not exist. I have a contact in Japan that tells me the cam do exist but take 5 -6 weeks to make. Because of the money involved and because I have not had any previous transactions with the company I was inclined not to proceed with the purchase. I guess the only way to find out is to visit Spoon.....Anyone?
I do however still plan to go with the Toda cams and the Spoon valves.. The values are supposed to be lighter and stronger than the stock valves (quote from AJ pwr).....


Beroz

You would have been fine with the Spoon Race Cams for the S2000. Since they don't exist you wouldn't have harmed anything.

They actually do exist, but they are not for sale to the general public... When I was working on a deal with opak racing to become a distributor, they said I would have the opportunity to purchase the race cams, etc. for the show car... Spoon is a racing company, thus they would produce such items... The problem being is that they are not built for street driving, so what would be the point of spending the money producing a large quantity if people wouldn't be able to comfortably run them on their cars... I am curious to know why you believe they do not exist?

Just a thought, since the aggressive part of the cam is after VTEC, I don't think this would be much of an issue since most smog places don't rev the engine that high. I'm not stating this as a fact but rather an observation since I don't know anyone who's done a smog check with aftermarket cams for this car.

Anyone with experience know if this is true or not?

Because unless it's a very new thing they don't. Having been on this board since day one. Having had every authorized distributor state that Spoon has told them that they were in development and then decided to scratch the idea. Everyone of the sponsors on this board has tried to get them and everyone was told they don't exist yet. Many jumped the gun and offered GBs, hell some folks even posted it on their website, only to find out that it isn't available. Spoon might be a racing company but they hardly produce anything on their own. Everything is outsourced from different companies.

The non vtec lobe of the Toda's is already pretty aggressive compared to the stock setup. Whether or not the cams will be an issue during smog test can probably be answered by peep who have the 1st version of the cams. Generally, when buying aftermarket cam emissions of a vehicle is usually effected. I guess what I was trying to say was, emission was not a concern when the cams were designed.

As for the Spoon cam.. Who really knows, People in Japan that I've talked to say it does exist. People over here say other wise. It could be that the cams were only intended to be used in the JDM market ( or maybe not). It could be the people I've been talking to are just plain old crazy. Maybe our members from Asia could check it out, Taiwan is fairly close. I suspect a phone call to spoon shouldn't be to much of a hassle. But for now until one of us owns one, lets just place those cams in the C.S (chicken Shit) file.

Beroz

Dan, fair enough... Despite what I've been told by the sole importer to the United States, I suppose it is possible, though unlikely, that they were confused... From what I was told about the "idea being scrapped," it was not discarded, but put aside so more attention could be payed to the K20 platform... I'm not really looking for debate, so I won't comment again on this issue...
C.S. file??!! Okay, I'll let it go... I l know someone down here in FL with the version 1 cams, but since we don't have smog testing, so I don't think he'll know until he gets his car dyno'ed or has some ecu tuning done.. I'll see if he will be going in soon... I'm kinda surprised he hasn't chimed in by now....

Xplosiv,

I don't thing it will be a problem to run the cams w/ the Mugen ecu; check w/ Dan I think he is running the cams w/ the Mugen ecu. I asked him about this and He says it's fine.

Any specs on these cams? What valvetrain is out there to handle this extra lift and duration?

I was the first person to run the version 1 cams with Mugen ECU and have been doing so for about 9 months now. The air fuel is very consistent across the board always around 13.4~13.8. No problems at all.

Muahaha, tracking says cams are inbound ETA this friday......

sweet:thumbup: when everything is installed do a writeup

i'm glad to see at least one of the Toda threads is alive