Oil analysis (crankcase) from S/C'd car.

Here is the report I just got back for the lab:
M1 10W30.jpg[/PHOTO]
Note the higher Silicone content. This may be due to the silicone based gasket maker I used to re-install the oil pan at the time of the S/C installation.
Also note the higher levels of aluminum. I'm a little perplexed by this number as I've always thought that the metal to metal wear points were NOT made of aluminum.

This is the first service interval of the Mobil 1 10W30 oil after the Vortech install. I do not drive my car hard all the time but I don't baby it either. My driving conditions during this interval was mostly within the city with a couple of group drives out into the country. I was using a Purolator Pure 1 filter. There was very little oil consumption during this time period, perhaps a total of no more than 1/2 liter over the 5000 KMs (3000 miles).
All in all, I'm satisfied that my engine is doing well under the FI conditions.
The car also has the 4.44 gears and a Neuspeed cat back (should this be relavent).
Thanks to "FormerH22a4" for providing me with the sample kit. And I invite him to post his results here as a comparison to a car that has been much more carefully driven and in stock configuration.

EDIT ...... NOTE: I should have mentioned that the column headed by "CURRENT" is for my oil. The previous 2 "dated" columns are for Former's previous samples. I used his account ID and that's why my results are published with his.

Thanks for the info!

I would not fret over the aluminum - note that the baseline low and high points are orders of magnitude higher than the other metals. One reason is that being soft, aluminum will tend to bleed into the oil quickly.

The silicone is likely from what you said - the leechinof of silicone oil from the pan sealant into the oil - I have seen that before. Also, silicones may be higher than base oil since they help redcue foaming at high revs - just like DiGel for peeps.

Road Rage, I was hoping you'd see this and comment.
Thanks.

I've just made an additional EDIT at the bottom of my original post.

any recommendations on oil analysis kits? something I can order online?

I've still got the "break-in" oil, so we might as well answer once and for all if it's got ultra-high levels of Moly, Zinc dithiophosphates, pixie dust or what-have-you. doing an oil analysis of the first oil change probably isn't going to do me a whole lotta good, since it'll likely show extreme wear due to the motor being broken in, but if the price is fair enough, I'll fork out to know what Honda engineers felt were important ingredients for the break-in oil.

I'm in the US, so I'm not sure if I can use the same company as xviper.

EDIT: Sorry, don't mean to hijack your thread xv-- I just remember you wondering this question in this thread. I'll post the question there too.

No problem. I think your question is still within the realm of this topic. I've heard people speaking of Blackstone Labs for you folks in the U.S.

blackstone is pretty popular among the oil folk in the states.

blackstone-labs.com it is then.

funny thing, on their order form they ask "How did you hear about us?" and I was about to select "Other" when what did I see but "Honda S2000 Club". guess we're kinda well known there, huh?

EDIT: the only bummer is that since I've already seen a bit of oil consumption, I've had to put in about 1/2 a bottle of Chevron oil and I may have to put the rest of the bottle in by the time I reach 7500 miles. it'll distort the results somewhat, but since it's a small amount compared to the total amount of oil in the car, we should still be able to see if there are any extra-high levels of anti-wear compounds.

And here's mine from Blackstone a few months ago:

oil.jpg[/PHOTO]

It's interesting to note that I was going for extended oil changes and some of the numbers (iron, f'rinstance) are about double your numbers with ~2x your mileage (I hope your distances are miles and not km - if so, all bets are off) while others are essentially the same or significantly lower. I've used Mobil 1 10W30 and Honda oil filters, changing the filter during the extended use (usually arounf 5k miles). I also use a couple of quarts of oil during this extended period.

Comments?

Mine's in KMs.
ie. 5000 KMs or 3000 miles.
Looking at your chart, mine and Former's (1st 2 columns in my chart), they seem fairly comparable except for my higher aluminum and silicone numbers. And both of these have been explained and not anything to be concerned about.

Uh, I think that's silicon, not silicone.

I believe that high silicon level in your oil would be due to dirt, most likely from inadequate air filtration.

Here is my latest result:

AugustOilResults.jpg[/PHOTO]

This sample was a stock setup with Mobil 1 10W30, and K&N oil filter, known for good flow. I have Puralator PureOne on now, know for high efficiency filter but not as good flow so we'll see which filter is beter for the next interval.

For anyone curious, the 06/01/03 sample numbers in xviper's post was mine with a track day on that interval, not any noticeable increased wear because of it.

the silicone grease that xviper used to seal back his oil pan is what is causing the high silicon numbers. This number willl drop on his next interval.

As for the high aluminum, I think it is because his 10W30 weight oil thinned to have the visc. of a 5W30 or thinner. The extra heat from the S/C probably has something to do with it too, but 31 ppm is not too bad.

I think if he went with a higher flow oil filter, and a more rugged synthetic like Redline, we'll see those numbers drop.

I think you were using the oil Mobil formulation for your 06/28/02 and 12/01/01. Your 02/21/03 sample was with the new SuperSyn formulation. The SuperSyn has proven to be better on shearing and wear. If our interval was as long as yours the wear number would be close. Also the 03/15/03 sample on xvipers was through the winter and ususally there is higher Fe content with cold weather. The 06/01/03 sample on xviper's scan included a track day so if people are worried about wear on track day, it doesn't add any significant wear.

You are right in that it is "silicon" that is being reported in the chart, however, "silicone" is simply a substance of any number of chemical polymers based on an alternating link of "silicon" (Si) and oxygen, therefore, "silicone" seal as was used in the gasket maker material will contribute to Si being liberated into the oil over time and measured in the oil analysis.
Granted, I used the 2 terms interchangeably when I should not have.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I did not know that!

But silicon readings can/often are due to dirt ingestion, right?

This, I cannot say with certainty.
Road Rage?

Yes, usually the Si count is related to dirt. High Si will give you higher wear numbers like Fe and Al. If Silicon is high and the wear numbers are low, it usually points to silicon from silcone grease. If you take an oil analysis on break in oil, you'll find higher Si because of the seals used from the factory. After a few oil intervals this number will come down to normal.

If you use the stock OEM filter, you'll see Si counts from 5ppm to 10 ppm. Any higher and it is time to change the filter. If you use a K&N, these tend to show higher Si near 15ppm and greater.

Probably since common sand is made of silicon. So either it is dirt or maybe computer ship ingestion.

The lab will account for this. When you send in the sample, one of the questions is amount of oil added since being changed.

I use Blackstone labs for my oil analyses and recommend their service.

He is right - the great bulk of silicon is dirt related, but you and I were also right about the leaching of silicone oils for freshly curing sealant into the oil - it is a good indice of air filter effectiveness, analagous to the "test dirt" used when air filters are evaluated in the Lab (yes, believe it or not, there is a standardized test dirt in the ATM sequences). BTW, did you use the Honda sealant or equivalent (the grey stuff)? It is formulated to very effectively "grab" onto aluminum pans/blocks, and has less silicone oil volatility, so it is sensor safe, and less likely to leach out - it is no big deal if it does.

If you see a sudden spike in the silicon/cone readings, check your air filter, espcially to see if the flanges are seating correctly. Some of the hi-perf filters (such as the gauze types) claim to be highly efficient in filtration, but I have seen where they allowed an alarming amount of crud into the oil, esp. when new. In the Cobra, I used a wide-mouth S&B filter, and never intend to clean it - they flow so well and filter better when a bit dirty.

Air filtration is extremely important if you want to extend oil drain intervals with synoils, and one reason it is a very good idea to change the oil filter at least twice during a synoil's service life.

Dirt per se is not as big a deal as people make it out to be in the oil - today's lubes deal with it very well; But, and this is a big but (alas, like mine), if your air filter is allowing lots of LARGE particles (>15 microns) into the oil, and the oil filter is clogged or in bypass a lot, the wear that can result will be damaging - the damage occurs when two particles work side-by-side (adjacent) in the tight tolerance clearance areas - they have nowhere to move laterally, and will eat into the metal on either side of them.

I use high quality synoils and the best fiulters I can find, and inspect them regulary, and do oil analyses regularly.

For those who do not want to fuss with that, I recommend a good Group III mineral oil, stock air filter, and changes at 5k or sooner.

No, I used Permatex "Form-a-gasket" 2.

Another 5000 KM (3000 miles) later and I've just done another analysis.
M1 analysis 10-03.jpg[/PHOTO]

Notice that the Silicon and Aluminum levels have dropped significantly as compared to the first analysis posted here.
The first one indicated 31 for Silicon and 31 for Aluminum.
This latest one is 17 for Silicon and 9.4 for Aluminum.
I think we were correct in saying the RTV sealant may have contributed to the Silicon numbers.
This was also with the Purolator Pure One oil filter. I never touched the air filter.
In general, ALL numbers have gone down.
All in all, I'm pleased to see that my "blown" engine is doing just fine.


Once again, thanks to Former for the analysis kit.

Good to see your numbers have come into proper alignment - thanks for posting the info.