What's in those fuel injector cleaners? Are they safe?

There were some references in another thread that implied that fuel system additives/cleaners were dangerous to cars. Well, I did some research, and talked to several manufacturers, and they say "bunk", unless the products are mis-used.

Here is what some commonly used ones are made of, in % by weight:

Pennzoil Gumout Regane
60-70% kerosene
30-40 Polyether amine
Analysis: I don't see anything in them that would harm a car

Gumout Xtra
90-95% kerosene
5-10% detergent
Analysis: I don't see anything in them that would harm a car

Chevron Techron:
30-50% hydrotreated petroleum distillates
10-25% Stoddard Solvent (similar to kerosene)
5-10% Naptha
1-5% Benzene
.1-.5% Xylene
Analysis: Naptha, Benzene, and Xylene are strong solvents, but I do not believe they are used in enough volume to cause problems.

Valvoline Complete Fuel System Cleaner:
52 - 62% Kersosene
28-38% Light hydrotreated petroleum distillate
6-16% Stoddard Solvent
Analysis: A good formula, should have no negative affects on seals, similar to Techron but without the stronger solvents.

Amsoil Performance Improver
80% petroleum distillates
No other compounds identified
Analysis: Safe, but without full disclosure of any other compounds, one must reserve judgement against the other, more technically advanced cleaners like Techron and Red Line SI-1.

Red Line SI-1
1-5% Alkenylamine
1-10% Isoctanol
1-10% 1,2,4 Trimethylbenzene
5-20% Aliphactic Napthta
Analysis: A very complete formulation: detergent/dispersant, corrosion inhibitor, fuel additive. It has an alcohol which will help disperse any water, several strong solvent cleaners, and a detergent. Very comparable to Techron, perhaps a bit stronger, so be sure to use it full strength only when properly titrated, or in smaller amounts for continuous cleaning.

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Techron in some fashion is used in all of Chevron's fuels, and it is the one Detroit uses when its cars are EPA-tested and certified. Would they be selling a product that was causing fuel pump socks to melt? Possibly, but you can bet that if this were a huge problem, the mfr's would know about it, and be after Chevron like flies on a pile of dung.

I could not find what is in BG's 44K, but have been told it is very strong, so perhaps this is the sock melter.

BTW, did you know that more Techron is used in Supreme than the lesser octante Chevron fuels? It is true.

So do you need to use these products? If you use a top grade fuel like Chevron Supreme, likely you will not have significant buildup of crud on the intake valves and combustion chamber. If you sometimes use the cheap off-brands, you likely will benefit with a treatment at every oil change.

What do I do (and have done for 5 years)? I use Red Line SI-2 monthly as an adjunct to using Chevron Supreme, to ensure that any dirt that starts to get a foothold gets flushed. This regimen has served me well, my injectors wore out (one car after 300k miles!) but never gummed up or delaminated, and my socks are fine, thank you very much.

Jeez, with all the "what kind of oil" controversies I haven't run across a "what kind of gas" one.

On my sister's advice, which she passed on from her mechanic, I've been only using Chevron Supreme in the S. The mechanic says it's all about the additives and the Techron is going to be a good thing in the long run. So if you see the Big Albert's, Fast Johnnies and Chevron trucks all pulling out of the same refinery, supposedly the Chevron guy is going to dump some Techron in his load and make it Chevron gas.

Just passing on info, but it sounds plausible to me.

Thanks for the info

RR- where the hell were you and all this info when I first purchased my car?!

Since most of the 30k miles I have on my S are of the highway variety, can I assume that I have burned the fuel quickly enough as to have fewer deposits/build-up? I still average about 24-25 mpg and watch it with every fill-up. If it were to significantly drop with lots of aggressive driving, I would know i have a concern.

Thanks in advance.

OT: But you avatar is so freakin sick!

I was somewhere else, but rest assured it was in a high power car.

What fuel have you been using? If you are concerned run a full tank and add a bottle of SI-1.

Injector deposits will show up as bad idling. Piston deposits can get so bad that they can stick valves or have the piston hit the valve making a noise - Camry owners who have used cheezy oil or neglected their oil changes have found this out the hard way. That car (the V6) seems especially sensisitve to oil galley clogging and oil related deposists.

I have to say, I may stop posting technical info on this Forum - I mean, this thread gets 4 or 5 reads, but a thread on "My exhaust pipe is dirty - Help!" gets 45 replies. I already know this stuff - typing it and analysing it for the layman is time away from my family and my car.

And extended oil intervals are compared to baby diapers. Everyone is an expert, especially on topics for which they have no education, experience, knowledge, or credentials other than knowing how to type, and repeating illogical or cliched thoughts, most of which are either misinterpreted from technical posts, or repetitions of other untutored web "experts". It gets a bit frustrating, and except for a few on this Forum who seem to appreciate the work, my posts seem to create more acid than honey. Who needs this crap? I am starting to understand why Ultimate Lurker PM'd me and indicated his reasons for staying out of here.

Maybe I should put y'all on Double Secret Probation.

That's precisely why I appreciate you being here - your knowledge and research are second to none. I'm sure there are many people like myself who haven't spoken up about it, but have a lot of appreciation for your posts. Information like you provide is all too rare on messageboards.

I dumped a bottle of Valvoline SynPower Complete Fuel System Treatment into our high milage v6 Lexus... one day beore I saw this post.

They were out of the Techron and I really wanted to get something in the system.

We'll see.

You have to hang around, RR. Bring UL back with you too. I'd be willing to bet your posts are more appreciated than you believe.

Kind of like the 10-30 post. Excellent stuff. Keep it coming, please!

Not only that - you are one of the few guys who "gets" my avatar.

Well, RR, (isn't that Dick Tracy in your avatar?) I don't blame you for being discouraged.

I still remember the thread about antifreeze where the guy asked "Do I really have to use the Honda brand?" The first reply was something like, "Hell no, just dump regular antifreeze in there, I did and nothing bad happened." Or words to that effect. Woe to man and machine that follows some advice on this board.

I'd encourage you to keep posting just for my own sake. I can separate the wheat from the chaff, maybe you should just spend less time arguing with the chaff.

Words of steel, gentlemen (women?). I will not suffer an idiot, so perhaps I should adopt a thicker skin, and ignore the feeble-minded.

There is nothing wrong with Valvoline Synpower cleaner - let me check my records - if you have changed the oil regularly, you should not see a sudden wall of dark slime cascading through your Lexus' innards.

Thanks, RR


It's survived me for 150K so far... Only a little blue smoke on cold startup if the car has been sitting idle for a few days.

Where is the best place to get Redline products? I've been using Mobil 1 up to this point. Maybe it's time to give the Redline stuff a whirl. Could be cheap insurance.

As far as ignoring the feeble-minded... you're going to have a long "ignore" list!

Lig, I've seen Redline products at B&B Auto Parts. I don't know if they carry the whole line and don't know how they stack up pricewise either. You might give 'em a call. I always head to B&B first.

Sweet. I live pretty close to the Renton B&B.

Thanks!

I for one, sir, sincerely appreciate your informative, well-researched and well-worded posts.

humble advice: Ignore the dumb kids (or immature adults) who write stupid or mis-informative posts. Seriously, my Ignore list is 20+ strong, and now when I come to s2ki, all I see are postings by people with intelligent content to contribute. If more people used the Ignore button, the kids who post dumb stuff would soon find that nobody is responding to their posts. It is the attention they seek, therefore give them none. They'll soon leave.

I wish UL would have done the same. Hopefully, he'll come back and take solace in knowing his postings are for the benefit of those who truly appreciate his contributions. If he starts using the Ignore button, he'll only see those peoples' replies.

And really, c'mon guys, thicken up that skin! This is the Internet. If it were a roomful of automotive enthusiasts talking shop, and some punk kid walked up and said something stupid to a group of guys gathered around the open hood of an S, the likely response would be to pause for a moment, ignore the kid, and get back to the serious discussion at hand. In a virtual sense, let's do the same.

$.02

I can't say how much I appreciate your input, as well as many other knowlegdable members on this forum. Without you guys, I'd have to learn some things the hard way and pay the price. Keep up the good work and don't let a select few discourage your actions.

If it means anything, I'll throw in my support for Techron...good stuff. I used to know a fuel research scientist at Amoco (now BP) and even he said the Techron formula (patented) was probably the best there is.

This past spring I bore scoped my engine to check up on its health and I noticed some light intake valve deposits on the valve head (opposite the combustion chamber). Nothing unusual, but I'd rather see a perfectly clean valve to maximize airflow. I do a lot of idling during auto-x events to avoid heat soaking the engine, and I assume that may be the cause. I ran through a bottle of Techron concentrate after that and will again this next spring after I get the car out of storage. Then we'll see what the 'scope shows.

BTW - we just got one of these beauties at work, so I'll post some pictures of the inside of my engine this spring: Olympus iPlex

Steve
-engine geek

What was the mileage on your motor when you saw the intake valve deposits?

About 6,500 mi, with a steady diet of Amoco/BP Ultimate. Very slight, a bit of a light crust, but visible.

Steve

I do not know who retails in your area - call or email Redline in Benecia, CA - since you are up the coat, shipping should not be as painful as it is for me here on the right coast. They sell direct, by the way.

This is very interesting, as many have posted that fuel additives are ripoffs, and that if you use a quality gasoline, you are right as rain. Some guy posted he has torn down 20 engines and never seen a deposit - I did not call him a liar, I just have not found this to be the case.

Mfrs have lowered the amount of detergents in cars - it is way less than 1% by weight of today's fuels. And as I said earlier, reformulated gas is deposit-city. It is my practice to use small amount of respected fuel additives such as RL SI-2, Techron, etc. I use SI-2 once/month, but I can see a perfectly valid regimen suggested by Windscreen to use Techron or an equivalent strong cleaner like SI-1, properly titrated, just before an oil change.

Lig and all:

I found out what is in Valvoline's Synpower fuel system cleaner - I edited my original post and the numbers are there. It is closer to Techron than some of the others.

RR -

Thanks for the update. I feel a little better now. You certainly have a way with someone in the industry because that stuff doesn't just posted on the consumer websites!

It may well be the case that fuel additives are not needed for 90% of the general public. I think it all depends on what criteria you use to establish the need. If one defines the need as the point that the engine's driveability or run quality is affected, I was probably an order of magnitude away from that - in terms of the volume of deposits needed to have that strong of an effect.

However, if you are a discriminating consumer, or an enthusiast that wants that last 2% of performance, then using a cleaning additive occasionally is a good idea. There is probably a beneficial effect on emissions as well.

If you are interested in this topic of valve deposits, here's a link to a reasonably light weight (technically) discussion about the only test I'm familiar with that quantifies valve deposits caused by gasoline. I wonder what will happen when the world runs out of 1985 BMW 318i's? A quick search shows there are a few other tests. I'm sure the folks at Southwest Research Institute (SwRI) would be happy to perform them for you for a few thousand dollars per.

Steve

thanks for the info. I haven't posted before because I have nothing intelligent to add. don't get disheartened by Napoleon wanna-bes.

Noooooo! You've got too much knowledge (and too much to contribute) to simply go away. I know your posts have helped me before...and I hope they'll continue to be around to help others the same way.