Good article on impact and hypocrisy of oil company change intervals

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/lng_article/index.htm

It is a reprint from Lubes N Greases, an industry trade.

Get the reprint from the bottom, available as a PDF - then you can bypass the Amsoil propaganda.

Since you are the local Oil expert, what interval do you change your oil at?

Good read.

Very interesting reading. Thanks for the link

Another "thank you" for the link. I'll forward the link on to the student environmental club here at my University.

I am not disagreeing but balance this out with today's reality dealing with auto manufacturers.

There were several years of problems some Toyota owners had with engine life that was blamed on lack of oil changes (it was eventually pinned on engine cooling deficiencies), and the numerous warranty denials that state in whole or part it was owner negligence for not following the maintenance schedule.

The oil companies are not motivated to do something to cut their own sales so the initiative (actually the control) of the situation is with the auto manufacturers. Look in the S2000 manual and see where usage of many cars specify changes every 3750.

Anyone leaning on the oil companies in this campaign is missing the major issues driving change intervals.

I would love to see some statistics on how much oil is released into the environment without treatment versus the amount of oil recycled. The article focused on untreated oil, which is a significant environmental risk. However, I would venture to guess that almost all oil changed these days is recycled.

I believe that most facilities which provide oil change services are required to recycle oil. And used oil recycling has been available to those who change their own oil for over 30 years. It would seem to me that those who are most likely to not recycle oil are individuals who do not want to bother to take the oil to the local service station or recycling facility.

My Accord (2004) recommends changes ever 10k, with severe being every 5k. I changed mine at about 6k, and the friggin' place put in a synthetic blend.

Now I understand the logic of running synthetic in a 9000 rpm S2000, but this is a 6500 rpm Accord, and I think it has only hit that redline ONCE in it's 6000 miles! It was broken in properly, etc. I wanted to do the first change and get it out of the way, but I think from here on out I will change it every 7500 or so.

Anyone think I should change filters more often than that?

Why would it really matter that your Accord redlines at 6500 RPMs? How much Torque per liter of oil does it have? Is your car blue?

Isn’t it strange that Jiffy Lube states that a good rule of thumb is to change your engine oil every 3,000 miles? But they tell you to change the air filter as recommended in your owner's manual. Maybe we should change the air filter more frequently and the oil less.
I change my oil/filter every 5,000 miles and the air filter every 30,000 miles.

Do you actually know what happens to recycled oil? Most of it burned as cheap fuel, with all of its metal and chemical byproducts releaed into the atmosphere.

I change my oil once a year, with a filter change at 6 months and whatever makeup oil is needed.

My Momma always told me “Use statistics the way a drunk uses a lamp post; for support, not for illumination.” That said, about 35% of used lube oil is "lost". Most of the balance is recovered but used as burner fuel; mostly in power plants, cement kilns, and home heaters. Very little ~5% is truly recycled into base lube oil or other non-fuel product.

I used to work for Probex Inc. that invented a technology to recycle used lubricating oil into high quality base oil, a near diesel fuel oil, and an asphalt flux. About 70% of the lube oil in the used oil was recovered as base oil. [We went bankrupt about a year ago due to insufficient capitalization (no lone would loan us the money to build the full-scale plant.]

Burning used lub oil is a horrible idea. It would probably be better on the environment to just throw it on the ground.

About oil changes (which I think was the original subject): The vast majority of lube oil does not "breakdown" or otherwise fail in typical automotive use. With a very good filtering system and no "off-spec" operation (overheating, etc.), lube oil COULD last almost indefinitely. The problem is that the lube oil gets polluted with combustion byproducts (soot, etc.), metals, and anti-freeze and water.

Conventional mineral oil based lube oil will breakdown easier with heat than synthetic motor oil (but again, unless you overheat your car that shouldn't be a problem). It takes oil temps of 600+F to breakdown the molecules. Unfortunately, synthetic motor oil cannot be recycled with current economic technologies (it passed right through our process and ended up as diesel).

I use synthetic oil in my S. I would never go more than 3-5K without at least changing the filter. However, its so cheap to change the oil and the filter I typically do that. Probably (almost certainly) unnecessary, but I like my car and want to keep it until my drooling interferes with my shifting.

Regards,

Al

I just went to the American Petroleum Institute website for oil recycling (www.recycleoil.org) and got the following:

"Reprocessing is the most common method of recycling used oil in the U.S. Each year processors treat approximately 750 million gallons of used oil. Seventy-five percent (75%) of used oil is being reprocessed and marketed to:

43% asphalt plants;
14% industrial boilers (factories);
12% utility boilers (electric power plants for schools, homes, etc.);
12% steelmills;
5% cement/lime kilns;
5 % marine boilers (tankers or bunker fuel);
4% pulp and paper mills;
>1% commercial boilers (generating heat for school, offices, etc.);
5% other.

(They claim) Fourteen percent (14%) of used oil collected is turned over to re-refiners who return used oil to its original virgin oil state. "

Yes, but what is the end use of all those recyler ? Thatz what I'm talkin about.

Oh yeah, most of those "reprocessors" burn the used oil after some degree of "cleaning".

Regards,

Al

What about the used oil filters? They do contain an appreciable amount of used oil.

OK let's talk about what those who do not reprocess the oil do with the recycled oil. Most of them use it for a source of fuel. From Road Rages post, I believe that he had concerns about the metals remaining in solution in the oil. The metals not dissolved can be removed to very low levels by filtration, if the recycler or end user uses high quality filtration equipment. The metals dissolved in the fuel would be vaporized during the combustion process, and then would preferentially condense as the temperature decreases. If you look at a utility boiler, the stack gas temperature is rarely much higher than 200 F. The only significant metal pollutant remaining in liquid droplet form at that temperature is mercury. I have not seen the mercury content of used oil, but from reading other posts that Road Rage has posted, he may know.

One further question, is the mercury content of used oil higher than that in #2 fuel oil - which I would assume it would replace as fuel.

As far as used oil filters, they do contain not insubstanital amounts of oil. However they are typically buried in landfills. I believe that landfills are required to be lined to prevent water leachage though. I know the ones in CA are lined, at least in the major metropolitan areas.

One other thing, oil filters do not typically remove fine material in the engine. Soot, for example, can be less than 1 micron particle size. A good oil filter has a removal rating of 8 microns and I believe most of them have removal ratings more like 40 microns. An 8 micron filter will not remove 1 micron particulate, at least not to any appreciable efficiency. Therefore, soot will build up in the motor oil over time.

The soot does not build up - it is held in suspension by chemicals in the oil.

Bearings are made of steel, copper, tin, nickel, aluminum, etc.

Let's not forget the geo-politik angle. The US could go on a complete synoil program if we wanted to, using corn as one of the basics to make esters. Reacted with acids, you could produce oils easily capable of 25K change intervals with good filtering. That would co-opt the oil producers who hold us hostage economically, although we would have to deal with Russia, since it is dependent on its oil exports to stabilize the nation. But we could phase in our lubrication independence over time.

I think that is the direction Europe is taking, both because of the Green Party, and its wanting to stay out of any wars to protect Israel and the middle eastern oil supplies. They are quite content to let the US protect them, and have been so since 1945.

There is already research underway to make extended drain intervals not the exception but the rule. This includes higher quality oils and better filters, plus quality oil monitoring equipment in the car. Some BMW's come with sealed transmissions, and many trucking mfr's seal the tranny and gear lubes while warrantying the products for 1 million miles.

The point is, the 3K oil change is wasteful.

Ford no longer distinguishes between severe and regular service - it just says 5000 miles for dino oil. Period.

Huh? How much energy (diesel, gasoline, electric, human, etc.) does it take to produce synoil from corn?.. economically a poor way and would not exist except for government intervention in the marketplace. Oil is cheap and recycling is practical.

You been huggin a lot of trees for a Cobra owner.

cdelena:

It takes a lot of energy to re-refine oil - that's why so little of it actually occurs. As I stated and others corroborated, most of it is burnt.

It takes less energy to make an ester than you think - first of all, esters are produced chemically, not through a refining process that uses heat. Monohydric alcohols are reacted with acids. The alcohols can be derived from a number of materials, but the cheapest and most plentiful is corn - same as ethanol for the current gasoline blends.

I am not a tree hugger, or knee-jerk liberal. I examine issues based on the available scientific literature, and with a perspective oriented towards helping ensure there is a world worth saving, and in freeing the USA from political and often military commitments that might be avoided if we use our heads.

Does any one here believe that the world is a better place if we dump our oil into the ground? Or let it evaporate into the atmosphere? Or use more than we have to because some lubricants have higher drag than another?

Sure, I have consumed my share of fossil fuels - when the Cobra is at full bore, I consume a lot. But while I might have one eye on the road, I have another on the far horizon - energy independence for America is not a "greenie" issue. It is not a question of if, it is a question of when. When you hear nitwits attack the prez with the idiotic "lives for oil" gambit, you can appreciate how the whole issue warps thinking.

Hey, ultimately, fusion will be harnessed, ignited by lasers perhaps, and contained within electromagnetic fields we can only imagine today. Or, or perhaps and, we will also harness the tremendous potential energy of matter/anti-matter annihilation. So if my descendants down the road hug anything, it might be an anti-tree or something like that.

Stick with fixin' em, pal - leave the dreaming to nutz like me.

P.S. Will there be Mugen matter/anti-matter mods do you think?

I was talking about growing the corn, not processing it. It is a losing proposition pushed by politicians from the grain states.

No one suggested dumping oil, just responsible use of used oil.

You keep dream'in.

I know that the C5 Corvette used to have a 10K mile oil life, (using a synthetic oil that met GM's specification) now they have gone, starting with the 01 model years to a 15K oil life.. (under average driving conditions).. also they are factory fill with Mobil 1...

good read. thx.

BMW's have VERY long oil change intervals as well... probably around the 15k mile mark.

Of course, even the wife's now-gone 1997 328is held 6.8 quarts of oil... which I think might have something to do with the long intervals.