Need Some Klasse Advice Please!, ATTN MikeyC and wanabe

So here's what I have. I got a bunch of stuff for Christmas that I wanted for the S including, Klasse AIO, PC, P21S, Menzerna IP and FP. I have looked at the results others have gotten using P21S over the Klasse and I have a few questions. First, the Menzerna products are for removing some minor swirls and holograms that the cleanup guys at the dealership I work for put in there with a buffer. Now my main question is this: Am I going to have the same kind of high gloss and depth that I see others get with my Klasse and P21 layering because I notice that most people put a couple of coats of the Klasse SG on before the P21. I didn't get any of the SG and just wonder if it really makes that much of a difference. I am just excited to get to use the PC because I have always hand polished and waxed with the Autoglym but never got the kind of gloss and depth I see in pics here. Any advice would be good. Thanks.

if i understand your question, you are asking whether you can put p21s over aio without sg and get a good shine?

if i got it right the answer is "yes, but"....

the "yes, but" part is yes, but it wont have the depth that sg under the p21s would give it... so not quite the same pop. also you will not have the longevity that a synthetic gives (your wax will be gone in about a month or two, depending on how you care for your car- can be longer or shorter).
you will basically have "klasse light" on the car. your shine will come mainly from the p21s i think.

i have not seen a comparo of p21s over sg vs. over aio... so if you decide to do this and then later on you get sg- i would love to see your comparo. best way to do that kind of comparo is to do half the car with one and the other half with the other.... kinda impractical unless youve got lotsa time- the way i do it is to do the front end with the way i think i am gonna prefer, and the back end with what i think my second choice will be. that way, i can live with it until the next time i detail the car- then i just do the whole car the way that i prefer.

btw, lookin forward to badging you! (as soon as you have some pics of your clean car, post em up and pm me for your badge)-
very glad to see our old friend, klasse, revived!

klasse

btw, our member "autopia" is the king of klasse in my mind...

he has written much on that subject, and this is one of his articles:

http://autopia.org/forum/product-spotlight...end-klasse.html


and his classic- "the perfect shine":

http://www.guidetodetailing.com/articles.php?articleId=28

Klasse is clearly a very popular product. I just bought a bottle of Optimum Poli-Seal which is a similar product but I understand has more polishing power and leaves a more durable layer of protection. I have yet to try it out to verify these claims though.

Anyway, back OT . . . I agree with wanabe that you will not achieve the same look without using Klasse SG. I would argue though that there would not be a difference in depth as wanabe mentions, but rather a difference in gloss. I find generally speaking sealants add a lot of gloss to the paint but contribute little to depth of shine. Waxes on the other hand have a warm glowing shine and much depth. So, adding wax over sealant typically gives more depth of shine and mutes the gloss to some degree.

Also, are you applying all of these products by hand or machine? If you're doing it by hand then that will make it even more difficult (if not impossible) to achieve the results you're looking for. You definitely have a nice selection of products to start with though.

mikeyc and i will agree to disagree !!
and its all opinion anyway... and i absolutely respect his opinions-

he did make me remember to remind you that the aio isnt as picky as the sg is... sg must be applied very thin or its a hassle to work with. aio should be used thin, but it not as big of a deal. i prefer to apply synthetics with the pc- for mikeyc's reason (easier to control an even and thin application), and its just more fun!
i often remove with the pc also (i use an mf bonnet over a lambswool pad for removal).

--------
btw: (this one is a marketing opinion... in other words, an advertisement- so take it with a grain of salt!)

"Klasse Sealant Glaze Car Wax is a pure acrylic sealant that layers to improve gloss and depth of shine."
source: http://www.autopia-carcare.com/kus-kls-gla.html

they do not say just how much it improves... which is where the opinion side of this comes in!
(some would argue almost no improvement and some would argue that it is a great improvement)

Oh yeah. I forgot how finicky SG can be to apply too. When I was talking about using a machine I was speaking about using his Menzerna polishes.

I am definitely going to use the PC with the Menzerna and I am undecided on using it with the Klasse. Seems that it can be temperamental with a machine. I am going to hand apply the P21S. I was scared of using the SG with P21 over it because I have read that can be an issue also. I am so OCD and obsessed with my car that I don't know exactly what I want to do between the Klasse and P21. Should I try the SG or maybe some FMJ over the Klasse and then wax with P21? Sorry about all the questions but I am just a perfectionist!

Also, it does seem that SG is quite finicky and I sort of scared of that also but I am going to order something tonight.

In my experience, 90% of depth and gloss comes from a well-prepped surface, and a good wax/sealant on top of that is like icing on the cake so to speak. If you were polishing by hand before, then that's most likely why you weren't seeing the results you expected Try claying your car first, and then polish out your paint with your PC using IP and then FP (be sure to work slowly and crank it up to at least speed 5). Apply the P21S after you're done, and I think you'll be pretty floored by the depth and gloss

And regarding the SG, I think you'd be hard-pressed to tell the difference between a car that has P21S on it as opposed to a car that has P21S layered over SG. Personally, I've never been a big fan of layering different waxes, and I think the visual difference is minor at best. 1-2 layers of FMJ has always looked just as good to my eye

Skip the SG and go for the FMJ

FMJ is SOO much easier to apply/remove, lasts just as long, and looks better too (in my opinion)

I have already clayed my car before I hand applied Autoglym last month. I am going to clay it again before doing all of this major detail work. Is the FMJ acrylic like the Klasse SG?

this is what Klasse AIO,topped with a couple layers of P021S,all done by hand,on a "driven" car"(no garage queen,here...!!!) looks like:

now thats a red shine!!
nice job emil-

I love that 2nd to last pic

That is nice looking! So does anyone have anymore opinions on whether I should go with SG or FMJ? I am leaning to the SG just to keep it all Klasse. Thanks again for your help and suggestions.

you could easily go either way-
youve got the aio... and we know that p21s over sg after aio is a winning combo.

i just dont know what p21s over fmj looks like (i do know that it would work fine, from guys who use it)- so if you go that way, be sure to post up the pics!!

just to make your decision totally messed up, my first choice would be p21s over zaino, and i have p21s over finish first on the bimmer!!!

no matter which product you choose, you will be happy - every one of them is a great choice. do the reading that i gave you on klasse and then find some reading on the fmj if you want to spend more time.

the "best" is an opinion- again, they are all great!


an fmj on red car thread, but without p21s:

http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=336679

FMJ all the way

There really aren't any benefits to keeping it all Klasse, unless it helps you sleep better at night The only advantage I see to SG is the price, and that's it. I've used FMJ over AIO many times with EXCELLENT results

FMJ is a nice sealant which if it were me I would choose instead of Klasse SG. I did once put some P21S over FMJ on a dark blue Audi A6 and it looked good.

Not too confuse you even more but have you considered Wolfgang Deep Gloss Sealant? Definitely one of my favorite sealants in terms of looks. Plus being a sealant it is of course super slick and long lasting.

Once i wash my car tomorrow(just rained ) and maybe put on another layer of P21S then you will see

AIO
3 layers of SG
3 layers of P21S

I would choose just about anything over SG; FMJ, Zaino, Wolfgang, Ex-p, etc.

the third pic is so reflective the front bumper looks animated. I think I know what my next detailing session will include: Menzera polishes, AIO, and P21s. but just to make sure, the general concensus is AIO should be machine applied, correct? Also, how do the Menzerna twins compare to the Sonus system? In the thread provided by wanabe, the OP stated he spent 7 hours polishing with a PC. Although his results were great, was he going over the same panels again and again to achieve those results? If so, I'd rather just get a compound and get it done in a pass because I don't have 7 hours to polish!

This post has been edited by s2krazy01 on Jan 7 2007, 01:48 PM

aio isnt really a protectant... you still need a synthetic protectant imo- although you could go with p21s (carnuba only), but a synthetic will give you a lot more protection.

can not tell where you are, since your location is not indicated, but you could post up in your local forum for someone to help you with the polishing.

you can easily spend 7 hours on a badly swirled car for a full detail... i get the impression that your car isnt that bad- a compound will really eat your clear coat while swirl removers will not take down that much (btw, after a compound you still have to do a swirl remover to bring back the shine!). from what i understand, you just need a good swirl removal and then the synthetic protection... someone with experience can do that in 3 to 5 hours with at least a coupla coats of synthetic.

hint- do the swirl removal and synthetic when you detail the car. then the next time you wash the car, carnuba it. you dont really have to do the entire process at once.

so if aio isn't a protectant, what is it and what is its purpose? how long must you wait to top it with a synthetic? also, I already have SFX 2 and 3, and they almost removed my swirls, but I just want to know what the big deal is about Menzerna.

sorry, not thinking clearly... i dont think of it as a protectant but it is- i always think of it as a cleaner (like a paint cleaner)- and it does some of that too.

so i correct my own post- aio does give some protection (and it also lasts awhile)- you actually could just p21s over the aio, but it seems to me like you have done so much work, why not just finish it ? ! (with sg or another high quality product)

Well I ordered the SG because of the price and I am hopefully going to get to detail it on Wednesday. I just don't have a garage here and there are no shade trees so I am a little worried about putting it on. Temperature is supposed to be around 50 to 53 and sunny.