S2000 AP1 Kraftwerks DYNO Video, Ported Head, Js header, Greddy Exhaust

The head is not the problem. I was present when that head was flowed and it out performed stock by a significant amount.

I agree with Mass for the most part since most porting done to S2000s is poor. This head was done by the master and is a beautiful proven piece that will gain power.

I actually do not know what weight they entered.

The car does feel very strong so I am hoping the low number is only because of the mustang dyno. I will try to get a few more runs on another dyno to compare the numbers.

I still couldnt figure out why my boost is so high though. I don't believe I have any restriction in my exhaust. From the J's header, to Invidia 70mm test pipe, to the Greddy TiC Turbo exhaust, everything should be pretty freeflow, and my car is now loud as ****.

Does the shop have any baseline dynos from stock or near stock S2000s? That could shed some light on whether or not this is a heartbreak dyno.

Jimbo

Here is the dyno graph..

i was told on my s/c hatch that after 11 psi the air being compressed was to hot any higher and caused intake temp to rise, which drops hp dont know if it applies the same here just thought id try to help also had friend dyno 50 hp diff on dynojet and mustang dyno hope u get it figured out

Car looks good, but yes 307 is ridiculously low!!!

Who tuned the car and what management??? Alot of power is on the table in the tune! Also I dont see how a slightly higher compression would affect the boost level, but i could be wrong.

I say..... go dyno on some other dyno's that are notorious for reading high... and get an average of a few dyno's. This is what motivated me to dyno at kraftwerks.... I couldnt sleep at night if I was lower than 360!

Im still VERY unconvinced headwork does any good! who cares if it tests better on a flow bench if it doesnt translate into hp on the dyno!!! gains are most likely minimal at best and only seen in the very high rpm's which the rotrex doesnt allow you to see!!!

The higher compression may make tuning more critical to get PERFECT... I was advised not to go to 12:1 and just be content with 11:1.... the extra compression is virtually meaningless on a boosted application where boost can be increased!!! In this case where boost cannot really be increased it was a viable option so Im glad you tried it!!!! I just think the very small benefit of MAYBE a couple horsepower isnt worth the decreased longevity of the motor!!!!


keep us updated... (Looks sick!!

Yah I had my greddy kit tuned at the same place.... 12 psi, water meth, ported WG, 3" DP back and it only yielded me around 240 whp.. That was dissapointing but it runs good... It is definaltely the dyno reading very low... A stock s2000 apparently reads at about 165 whp on that dyno so the delta is pretty good. Etleast your lines are somewhat linear.. my torque just falls on its face at like 5500 rpm

IME it's very rare that the dyno is the issue, especially when your short by 60-80hp. I would blame it on the injection system before anything. Do you have a fully tuned run w/o injection? I assume you don't since you didnt mention it in your post.

Your boost curve is much different than that of a turbo. The linear nature of the KW charger won't require injection until after about 7+psi for effectiveness. If your injection kit is activated by RPM, try having it switch on at 7k. If it's activated by pressure ajust it to have it turn on a 7psi. If the injection is coming on too early, it can/will bog the top end.

Other possibilities to consider:
-What management?
-Nozzle size: may be too large
-Pump Pressure: may be too high
-Mixture: try 2:1 Meth/Water or Alcohol/Water

Well guys its comfirmed that Lookinco was running the 100mm pulley on his ap1 thats why he was getting 13psi. He blew his blower very recently.

Edit* He bought an ap2 kit so it wasnt OJR's fault.

so how did he find out the blower was blowing fluid into the motor???? Is the motor shot?, the blower shot?.... what were the first symptoms???

well hes not the first to grenade a KW blower on 13psi. sucks that the blower is right near its peak efficiency, and max tolerance @ 10psi

they need to offer a C38 upgrade!

lol getting worried about your setup man?
you should pm him

From what I understand most of the guys running a 90mm blower pulley (like DesertWanderer i.e. who's been doing it for months) are shifting at about the same “impeller speed” as the KW high boost kit allows.

That means 7600 rpm with a 90mm pulley and 8000 rpm with a 95mm pulley (4% over-spin for both)- just less than the 5% over-spin of the KW HBK at 8500 rpm. The C30-94 will handle this all day long. If you recall this is why Doug at Hondata was approached about making the rev limit adjustable for the KW kit reflash- to accommodate running smaller blower pulleys.

Some guys have a problem with the idea of "short shifting" their cars because they're in the habit of approaching the rev limit- when they can. That's totally understandable.

BTW at the dyno the C30-94 has held up to momentary impeller speeds of (10% to 12% over-spin) but for practical purposes 5% to 6% is about max for the stock blower as packaged. This is particularly true for the track or strip.

What bites is that according to the flow chart on the Rotrex site this blower stays at near peak (75%) efficiency right up to impeller speeds of 120K. I'm guessing but that impeller speed would make like 13 to 15 psi. ???

If you've got stand alone tuning you could buy a C-38 series blower and retro-fit it for use with the KW kit. There's been a lot of talk about that. Ultralight has done it successfully on his race car. I’m not sure what kind of numbers he’s getting.

Basically it just happened suddenly. The car was not being driving hard when it all happened. However prior to that we were tuning the high rpm (no boost) portion so we kept it at pretty high rpm for a short period (around 7k to 8.5k rpm). A few minutes after tuning on the way back to the shop we heard this loud sqeeek, then we found the charger not boosting properly.

Once we got to the shop we found that the Rotrex Oil Resvervior was low on oil. White smokes was also blowing out the tail pipe. We removed the charge pipe and found rotrex oil in it, which means the charger is blowing oil into the engine.

We believe the motor is fine as only a small amount of oil got into the engine. We ran the engine NA and all seems fine. The blower is definitely shot, but I will take a closer look later to see if it will be rebuild or repairable.

I am tempted to make the C38 fit, but I do not want any down time for my car so I already ordered the C30. However I have asked my engineer friend to make a CAD drawing of the existing charger bracket so I could use it as a start for the C38 bracket.

I have a spare engine lying around so I could use it to test fit the C38 and bracket. After that I got to figure out all the piping but that doesn't seem to be too much of an issue. There should also be more then enough space to fit the C38.

Maybe we will need a bigger intercooler? But seeing how efficient the Rotrex are, we might not need one.

Any additional info on this?

I'm all for efficiency, but if people are looking to simply make more power with a Rotrex, this sounds like a sane option.

I know TTS had a C38 kit, but you're talking about a KW 'kit' with a C38 swapped, correct?

Please provide info if available.

that would be the ideal way to make everything work.

In my expeirance the rotrex intercooler stays pretty damn cool during runs. I wouldnt be surprised if it could handle another 100-150 hp from a c38.

Unfortunatly it doesnt seem KW is willing to make a C38 kit even as a race kit like they offer for the RSX. Its a damn shame really. Because i'd love a 500hp rotrex power monster w/o the heat issues etc like one would get with a turbo.

The C38 has been discussed before. It does not work for our cars. The efficiency range is not correct so you end up making the same, even less power than the C30. Move on.

Come on. That's like saying the GT35R Turbo is out of it's efficiency range on a 2.0L and you shouldn't consider it.

Your statement might be correct if all else says unchanged... A C38 at 9psi may indeed make less power then a C30 at 9psi. However, a C38 is capable of making more boost at a lower impeller speed.

See my post below where OJR even recommends the C38 for higher than 450HP applications.

Additionally, check out how much less power it makes here:
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=697668&hl=


Now... anyone have something worthwhile to offer?

here we go again

Yeah... I suppose we do have to go thru this again, since IIRC the mods locked up at least three KW threads, that may or may have not addressed these questions.

For what it's worth, I searched for 'Rotrex, C38' and came back with only a handful of threads. One did have an interesting quote from OJR at Kraftwerks:

"For those that want beyond our kit (450+hp), the C38-61 is the best choice... There has never been an argument there. All I have been saying is our kit is not designed for those folk.

-OJR"

(http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=619711&st=25)


I think the KW Kit *is* great, but with modding cars, I'd like to know what (if any) expandability this kit has. I was specifically curious about UltraLite and his 'KW C38 conversion' - If indeed I understood the quoted poster correctly. If this *has* already been discussed, be all means, send me a link and I'll refrain from 'stiring the pot' again.

The long and short of it is, if you are happy with ~365whp, buy the KW kit. If you need more, look elsewhere or prepared to re-engineer the vast majority of the kit yourself.

That's really great info.

Thanks.