Kraftwerks CARB status?
05-28-2010, 12:05 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Kraftwerks CARB status?
Recently, I've been having the itch for more power, but living in So-Cal, I've been doing heavy research into CARB kits. Kraftwerks, for years, has been advertising their S/C kit as "CARB pending". As of late, I've asked some question in the KW discussion thread, which have been brushed off by OJR, and some So-Cal members have been been tagged and received ref tickets, and as a result, have had to take off their KW kits.
This prompted me to do some more research; my roommate from college has several friends (roommate and his friends are all engineers) who now work at CARB, so I was able to dig up contact information, and an email was shot off.
And now, the response
It would seem that KW never submitted an application for the S2000.
Information regarding applying for a EO# for any aftermarket part can be found here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/forms/forms.htm
To sum it up, the process goes like this:
1. develop a part/modification
2. submit application(s)
3. wait for CARB response
4. go to "Qualified independent laboratory" (smog station AFAIK) to test; manufacturer must supply their own car and modifications
5. send results back to CARB
6. if CARB wants to verify, they will ask the manufacturer to provide a test vehicle with the modifications equipped
It seems that the KW S/C kit for the s2000 only finished step 1.
Many people state that it is expensive to CARB certify a modification. If so, how are intake companies CARB certifying their intakes that they retail for a few hundred bucks? I'd imagine the profit margin would be eaten up by r&d costs.
My question here is this: Will KW ever become CARB legal? The only requirement to this is that they apply for a CARB EO number, and that the vehicle must create the same amount of emissions post-modification as stock.
I will be more than happy to forward the actual emails to anyone who wants to verify them.
This prompted me to do some more research; my roommate from college has several friends (roommate and his friends are all engineers) who now work at CARB, so I was able to dig up contact information, and an email was shot off.
from mike <xxxxxx@gmail.com>
to xxxxxx@arb.ca.gov
date Tue, May 25, 2010 at 6:01 PM
subject aftermarket EO application question
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details May 25 (3 days ago)
Good Afternoon xxxxxx,
I'd like to make an inquiry about a system that is currently being advertised as "CARB pending". The product can be found here:
http://www.kraftwerksusa.com/product-detai...php?productId=3
As stated, this company has been advertising this aftermarket product as "CARB pending" for nearly two years, and some questions have been raised within the community as to if the claim is even legitimate. Has Kraftwerks USA filed the applications found at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/forms/forms.htm to apply for an EO on this particular kit? They've been pushing the product with "CARB pending" being a major selling point.
I have contacted the company many times and all they do is dodge my questions about the legality of this modification; I do not with to do anything to my vehicle that would cause it to be illegal.
Thank you for your time! I really appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Mike
to xxxxxx@arb.ca.gov
date Tue, May 25, 2010 at 6:01 PM
subject aftermarket EO application question
mailed-by gmail.com
hide details May 25 (3 days ago)
Good Afternoon xxxxxx,
I'd like to make an inquiry about a system that is currently being advertised as "CARB pending". The product can be found here:
http://www.kraftwerksusa.com/product-detai...php?productId=3
As stated, this company has been advertising this aftermarket product as "CARB pending" for nearly two years, and some questions have been raised within the community as to if the claim is even legitimate. Has Kraftwerks USA filed the applications found at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/forms/forms.htm to apply for an EO on this particular kit? They've been pushing the product with "CARB pending" being a major selling point.
I have contacted the company many times and all they do is dodge my questions about the legality of this modification; I do not with to do anything to my vehicle that would cause it to be illegal.
Thank you for your time! I really appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Mike
And now, the response
From: xxxxxx [mailto:xxxxxx@arb.ca.gov]
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 11:35 AM
To: 'mike'
Subject: Kraftwerks
Mike,
Kraftwerks did submit a CARB application back in 2008, I’m the engineer assigned to review it, the notes I have on the application is that the project is on hold for redesign. It was for a 2006 to 2008 Honda Fit. I’ll contact them next week to get an update.
Thanks
xxxxxx
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 11:35 AM
To: 'mike'
Subject: Kraftwerks
Mike,
Kraftwerks did submit a CARB application back in 2008, I’m the engineer assigned to review it, the notes I have on the application is that the project is on hold for redesign. It was for a 2006 to 2008 Honda Fit. I’ll contact them next week to get an update.
Thanks
xxxxxx
Information regarding applying for a EO# for any aftermarket part can be found here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/forms/forms.htm
To sum it up, the process goes like this:
1. develop a part/modification
2. submit application(s)
3. wait for CARB response
4. go to "Qualified independent laboratory" (smog station AFAIK) to test; manufacturer must supply their own car and modifications
5. send results back to CARB
6. if CARB wants to verify, they will ask the manufacturer to provide a test vehicle with the modifications equipped
It seems that the KW S/C kit for the s2000 only finished step 1.
Many people state that it is expensive to CARB certify a modification. If so, how are intake companies CARB certifying their intakes that they retail for a few hundred bucks? I'd imagine the profit margin would be eaten up by r&d costs.
My question here is this: Will KW ever become CARB legal? The only requirement to this is that they apply for a CARB EO number, and that the vehicle must create the same amount of emissions post-modification as stock.
I will be more than happy to forward the actual emails to anyone who wants to verify them.
05-28-2010, 12:31 PM
#2
I am going to take the liberty to give you my opinion on this.
The answer to your question is probably "no" when it comes to the HB S2000 kit.
Now the question for you is, why the hell do you go through all this trouble if you have not even called the company? (at least is sounds like that) Hell, you are in OC, I would drive to KW and talk to the Jacksons in person.
I have had nothing but EXCELLENT customer service from them. Everytime I had a question, I called them up from Florida ... I spoke to OJR, no middle man ....
It seems to me you are not a potential customer but more likely someone that wants to stir the pot ....
My 2c ... I may be wrong, but thats the impression I get.
J
The answer to your question is probably "no" when it comes to the HB S2000 kit.
Now the question for you is, why the hell do you go through all this trouble if you have not even called the company? (at least is sounds like that) Hell, you are in OC, I would drive to KW and talk to the Jacksons in person.
I have had nothing but EXCELLENT customer service from them. Everytime I had a question, I called them up from Florida ... I spoke to OJR, no middle man ....
It seems to me you are not a potential customer but more likely someone that wants to stir the pot ....
My 2c ... I may be wrong, but thats the impression I get.
J
to Kraftwerks.
05-28-2010, 01:14 PM
#4
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Originally Posted by R1_Pilot,May 28 2010, 01:31 PM
I am going to take the liberty to give you my opinion on this.
The answer to your question is probably "no" when it comes to the HB S2000 kit.
Now the question for you is, why the hell do you go through all this trouble if you have not even called the company? (at least is sounds like that) Hell, you are in OC, I would drive to KW and talk to the Jacksons in person.
I have had nothing but EXCELLENT customer service from them. Everytime I had a question, I called them up from Florida ... I spoke to OJR, no middle man ....
It seems to me you are not a potential customer but more likely someone that wants to stir the pot ....
My 2c ... I may be wrong, but thats the impression I get.
J
The answer to your question is probably "no" when it comes to the HB S2000 kit.
Now the question for you is, why the hell do you go through all this trouble if you have not even called the company? (at least is sounds like that) Hell, you are in OC, I would drive to KW and talk to the Jacksons in person.
I have had nothing but EXCELLENT customer service from them. Everytime I had a question, I called them up from Florida ... I spoke to OJR, no middle man ....
It seems to me you are not a potential customer but more likely someone that wants to stir the pot ....
My 2c ... I may be wrong, but thats the impression I get.
J
I am a potential customer as well and would like to have a carb legal kit seeing that I live in Nazi aka California.
If you read his post, he did try to contact the company. However didn't get a answer. I understand that the process can take a long time but to take this long...I'm not quite sure anymore.
It would be nice to have the company be upfront about the process. From what I read, KW didn't even submit the form for an EO number for the S2K?
good work on emailing carb and getting a response back. Hopefully we can get some answer
05-28-2010, 01:16 PM
#5
Its not stiring the pot if its true...right.
CARB will have the true answers to his questions and Im sure thats why he went to them...understandable to me.
Main reason why he started this thread was here in CA, CARB is a huge deal breaker when it comes to aftermarket parts. If I daily drove my car, KW would be off my list for FI.
Some people could end up buying the kit thinking CARB cert is just around the corner when in reality, the process never even started.
CARB will have the true answers to his questions and Im sure thats why he went to them...understandable to me.
Main reason why he started this thread was here in CA, CARB is a huge deal breaker when it comes to aftermarket parts. If I daily drove my car, KW would be off my list for FI.
Some people could end up buying the kit thinking CARB cert is just around the corner when in reality, the process never even started.
05-28-2010, 01:46 PM
#6
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"Roadie,
We have been working very hard on it. The newest test standards for CARB (US06 Tests) are very difficult to pass at our high power levels. The 650cc injector is only capable of so much in emissions efficiency, so it has been a difficult process.
We will let everyone know when it is complete.
-Oscar Jr."
A post from OJr.
We have been working very hard on it. The newest test standards for CARB (US06 Tests) are very difficult to pass at our high power levels. The 650cc injector is only capable of so much in emissions efficiency, so it has been a difficult process.
We will let everyone know when it is complete.
-Oscar Jr."
A post from OJr.
05-28-2010, 02:13 PM
#7
Thread Starter
I put my money where my mouth is. If this is the first S/C kit for 06+ cars that is CARB, I will buy one. Simple as that.
Granted, I'd buy the high boost pulley/belt and purchase a flashpro for additional tuning for some additional safety, but I'd start with the low-boost kit for when I inevitably get pulled over.
Granted, I'd buy the high boost pulley/belt and purchase a flashpro for additional tuning for some additional safety, but I'd start with the low-boost kit for when I inevitably get pulled over.
