Gauging Halo BBK Interest
03-09-2017, 01:21 PM
#21
Its obvious you are not tracking your car and looking for BBK solutions to bling. You lost all credibility when you talked about caliper colors. You are clearly missing the boat on the targeted market for this product. It is 100% aimed for track use.
Yes AP is owned by Brembo but doesnt mean they use the same products/materials/R&D. It is not because one is owned by the other that it is better.
Clearly missed the boat... They are not offering a $1800 kit here. Top of the line AP caliper that doesnt compare to stoptech... Of course its aimed at heavy track use.
Yes AP is owned by Brembo but doesnt mean they use the same products/materials/R&D. It is not because one is owned by the other that it is better.
What I personally didn't like about the essex setup was it really was setup for heavy track use, doesn't have the dust seals and proper painted calipers that you will find on stoptech setups. If your car is a heavy track car, the Essex/Urge setup does make a lot of sense. Consumables add up fast. for a mixed use or street driven car I didn't see the value in what was being offered.The real appeal of the urge/essex kit is for heavy track use. if that is you, then I would consider it, if that isn't you, I think you can do better with another setup
03-09-2017, 02:27 PM
#22
I have some feedback in regards to where this kit lies....
in the grand scheme of things, brembo is 'THE' best brake manufacturer. you can debate and argue with me till your blue in the face, but they still are. Don't confuse oem brembo with aftermarket GT and race spec brembo.
What is being offered here is somewhere between Stoptech and brembo. The Urge setup is composed of AP components. They are no doubt good, but not brembo quality. I would argue that they are at least as good as stoptech, but again, they are no brembo (and yes, I know brembo owns AP).
I shopped Essex's (Urge's) previous kit for quite some time before deciding on the stoptech setup....
why?
I felt the kit that essex put out was really just parts pulled from the existing parts bin with a fabbed up bracket for the honda. argument could be made that is how all the kits are, and I wouldn't put up too much of a debate, but you can look at their site (essex) and see that same caliper, same set of discs used for all sorts of applications without much, if any differences... I know, I shopped them for my evo and the S2000. What I personally didn't like about the essex setup was it really was setup for heavy track use, doesn't have the dust seals and proper painted calipers that you will find on stoptech setups. If your car is a heavy track car, the Essex/Urge setup does make a lot of sense. Consumables add up fast. for a mixed use or street driven car I didn't see the value in what was being offered. You can find a standard stoptech setup for half of what this kit will run you (1650 bucks). You can get your choice of caliper colors, rotor setup (slotted, drilled) and have it be more street friendly with dust seals. IMHO the essex/urge is priced too comparably to brembo without being brembo.
one last thing to note is that on the previous kit, wheel/caliper clearance was not as forgiving as the stoptech setup. It sounds like this revision is addressing that. That was another turn off for me in regards to the previous setup
All this is my opinion. I have Stoptechs on my s2000 and Evo IX and I run a brembo 355 GT kit on my 350Z. I don't have hands on experience with the kit, but I also have shopped many brake setups throughout my yrs. If you are looking at 3000-4000 your money, IMHO is better spent on a brembo setup, or save a bunch and get the stoptech. The real appeal of the urge/essex kit is for heavy track use. if that is you, then I would consider it, if that isn't you, I think you can do better with another setup
in the grand scheme of things, brembo is 'THE' best brake manufacturer. you can debate and argue with me till your blue in the face, but they still are. Don't confuse oem brembo with aftermarket GT and race spec brembo.
What is being offered here is somewhere between Stoptech and brembo. The Urge setup is composed of AP components. They are no doubt good, but not brembo quality. I would argue that they are at least as good as stoptech, but again, they are no brembo (and yes, I know brembo owns AP).
I shopped Essex's (Urge's) previous kit for quite some time before deciding on the stoptech setup....
why?
I felt the kit that essex put out was really just parts pulled from the existing parts bin with a fabbed up bracket for the honda. argument could be made that is how all the kits are, and I wouldn't put up too much of a debate, but you can look at their site (essex) and see that same caliper, same set of discs used for all sorts of applications without much, if any differences... I know, I shopped them for my evo and the S2000. What I personally didn't like about the essex setup was it really was setup for heavy track use, doesn't have the dust seals and proper painted calipers that you will find on stoptech setups. If your car is a heavy track car, the Essex/Urge setup does make a lot of sense. Consumables add up fast. for a mixed use or street driven car I didn't see the value in what was being offered. You can find a standard stoptech setup for half of what this kit will run you (1650 bucks). You can get your choice of caliper colors, rotor setup (slotted, drilled) and have it be more street friendly with dust seals. IMHO the essex/urge is priced too comparably to brembo without being brembo.
one last thing to note is that on the previous kit, wheel/caliper clearance was not as forgiving as the stoptech setup. It sounds like this revision is addressing that. That was another turn off for me in regards to the previous setup
All this is my opinion. I have Stoptechs on my s2000 and Evo IX and I run a brembo 355 GT kit on my 350Z. I don't have hands on experience with the kit, but I also have shopped many brake setups throughout my yrs. If you are looking at 3000-4000 your money, IMHO is better spent on a brembo setup, or save a bunch and get the stoptech. The real appeal of the urge/essex kit is for heavy track use. if that is you, then I would consider it, if that isn't you, I think you can do better with another setup
As far as AP Racing not being Brembo.. AP Racing competes at all the same highest levels of motorsport that Brembo does, F1, DTM, SuperGT, etc. but AP Racing actually trickles down their high end engineering efforts into products more people can afford.
Last edited by andrewhake; 03-09-2017 at 02:31 PM.
03-10-2017, 07:57 AM
#23
Its obvious you are not tracking your car and looking for BBK solutions to bling. You lost all credibility when you talked about caliper colors. You are clearly missing the boat on the targeted market for this product. It is 100% aimed for track use.
Yes AP is owned by Brembo but doesnt mean they use the same products/materials/R&D. It is not because one is owned by the other that it is better.
Clearly missed the boat... They are not offering a $1800 kit here. Top of the line AP caliper that doesnt compare to stoptech... Of course its aimed at heavy track use.
Yes AP is owned by Brembo but doesnt mean they use the same products/materials/R&D. It is not because one is owned by the other that it is better.
Clearly missed the boat... They are not offering a $1800 kit here. Top of the line AP caliper that doesnt compare to stoptech... Of course its aimed at heavy track use.
I am well aware of what is being offered here. The question I addressed was in response to how it compared to the stoptech. I never said it wasn't better, simply gave a detailed response on where and how it compared
what I am telling people over all the salesman and fanboy talk is that this kit is for one thing.. track use. I have my money, my opinions that lead me to purchase the parts I feel are of value for my car. Much in the same way you can research and buy the parts you like and find value in for your car. Urge can tell you straight up I strongly considered one of their kits and have bought other parts from them. I am not hating on or being naive to the specs of this kit. Simply addressing the question that was asked
03-23-2017, 09:58 PM
#24
So I see a lot of noted comparisons to stoptech and this kit, but have gathered the refrence is to the standard st40 street stoptech caliper and not the str40 trophy, which as a price point and track duty better suited for comparison. You know, since the st40-str40 calipers are different. Maybe to the AP fanboys it still doesn't matter, I dont know. But thought id make the distinction for those still shopping.
Last edited by s2000Junky; 03-23-2017 at 10:01 PM.
03-23-2017, 11:43 PM
#25
Looks like Urge is finally admitting that the 299x32 rotor simply isn't big enough to hold up to real track abuse. My rotors are significantly cracked after only 4 days on my current set, with the higher price vs centric blanks and not much of a life difference my kit won't end up saving anything in consumables and will likely end up costing more. That said the Sakebomb front AP kit is a much better value than this, the same rotors as what this is planning to use at $1000+ less. Sounds like they offer upgrade kits to convert my undersized 299x32 to the much nicer 325x32 rotor as well.
03-24-2017, 10:53 AM
#26
Sponsor
Thread Starter
Looks like Urge is finally admitting that the 299x32 rotor simply isn't big enough to hold up to real track abuse. My rotors are significantly cracked after only 4 days on my current set, with the higher price vs centric blanks and not much of a life difference my kit won't end up saving anything in consumables and will likely end up costing more. That said the Sakebomb front AP kit is a much better value than this, the same rotors as what this is planning to use at $1000+ less. Sounds like they offer upgrade kits to convert my undersized 299x32 to the much nicer 325x32 rotor as well.
For AutoCross and Light Track work, Im not sure there is better option than our current brake kit.
With the appropriate pads, our current kit has had success on High HP Turbo and Supercharged cars as well as even supported several customer endurance races. About 25% of our kits are sold direct to race teams and on full time track cars. I havent had one email from a full track team email us about being inadequate for their applications when using full race pads. We have had several times note our rotors have lasted 10+ Race Weekend or 50+ Track Sessions
Our current kit has great value!!
- No Brake Bias Change vs OEM
- Lightest Weight Track Designed Calipers & Rotors
- Rotors and Calipers are lighter than OEM improving Suspension Dynamics
- Components straight from AP Racing Track Catalogue purchased in high volumes, Ultra High Quality
- Lowest Cost 2 Piece Rotor Replacement
- Thicker Pad Material with lower than OEM cost
- More Front Brake Torque which will allow a Higher Friction Pad in the Rear on our flow rotors to have the ultimate braking force with good balance
- The Stiffest Front Caliper available by far, improving braking modulation for cars with ultra high friction pads
- Larger Rotors and Calipers maximizing braking force while maintaining the lowest track competition weight on the market; 2-5 lb lower weight calipers & 3-5 lb lower weight rotors per corner
- As we have done with other parts, we continuously try to bring the best technology and design to the S2000 Platform
- The CP8350 kit for best value
- The Radical Kit for the best performance on the market
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03-24-2017, 11:02 AM
#27
Sponsor
Thread Starter
So I see a lot of noted comparisons to stoptech and this kit, but have gathered the refrence is to the standard st40 street stoptech caliper and not the str40 trophy, which as a price point and track duty better suited for comparison. You know, since the st40-str40 calipers are different. Maybe to the AP fanboys it still doesn't matter, I dont know. But thought id make the distinction for those still shopping.
Our current CP8350 kit compares to the ST40 kit. Both great value and do a great job. The ST40 has great upfront value and our kit had great maintenance value. If any values lower weight or AP Racing Quality our kit my have an edge in their eyes.
The new Radical 5000 Kit is a better competitor to the STR-40 kit. I can't compare value yet until I understand all cost, but I think we have an advantage over any high end kit based upon caliper Stiffness, Weight Management up 10+ lbs per corner and aero cooling of the caliper and pistons.
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03-24-2017, 05:38 PM
#28
Im just happy to see companies still developing parts for a chassis that has been out of production for 8 years+.
Thanks Urge, SakeBomb, and Ballade.
Thanks Urge, SakeBomb, and Ballade.
03-25-2017, 10:20 AM
#29
03-28-2017, 08:27 AM
#30
Looks like Urge is finally admitting that the 299x32 rotor simply isn't big enough to hold up to real track abuse. My rotors are significantly cracked after only 4 days on my current set, with the higher price vs centric blanks and not much of a life difference my kit won't end up saving anything in consumables and will likely end up costing more. That said the Sakebomb front AP kit is a much better value than this, the same rotors as what this is planning to use at $1000+ less. Sounds like they offer upgrade kits to convert my undersized 299x32 to the much nicer 325x32 rotor as well.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-ra...vents-1170628/
The wrong pad was used. A DTC-30 up front is not up to snuff for track use. It doesnt matter what brake system you're using.
Domestically, during the past 4 years or so, the top developers of quality aftermarket parts for the s2k chassis has been Urge and SakeBomb, with some other companies like Ballade (lots of random offerings...) and Evasive trailing not too far behind.
Credit where credit is due, and criticism when warranted. The quoted criticism is wrong...