My S2000 suspension thread
12-10-2016, 09:17 PM
#1
Thread Starter
My S2000 suspension thread
Hopefully this thread provides some good info.
My S2000 is on Ohlins DFV’s with off the shelf settings. I put the car in storage about a month ago, and had planned on constructing my own lower mounts for said Ohlins in order to get the back of the car a little lower while adding more preload to (and travel) to the rear suspension.
But more on that later.
I decided to take the Ohlins off the car and bring them home to measure the lower brackets. To do this…I had to either store the car on jack stands (nah) or put the stock suspension back on.
I thought that putting the stock suspension on would be the perfect opportunity to test the parameters of the stock suspension. I re-assembled my stock shocks/springs that had been sitting in my parents’ basement since…like…2007?
There has been so much talk about how much free-travel (before touching bumpstop) the Ohlins should have….that I don’t know if anybody has ever posted those measurements of the stock suspension. In other words – what do we start with??
My stock suspension has about 23K miles on it. It had been used for about 2-5K of those miles on Skunk2 lowering springs. And I had also used the rear shocks to confirm that S2000 rear shocks fit on the back of a Civic.
So…they’re not off the shelf new. But they are in great shape and will give me a good basis.
Some background info on my car:
-MY00.
-Full tank of gas.
-No driver.
-Removed some weight as noted thusly (weights are approximated):
I re-assembled the shocks without the dust boot. That way, I can back up my measurements with actual visual proof of where the bumpstop sits.
To start (remember the units in bold)
Front INITIAL SHOCK LENGTH 8.75”:
Rear INITIAL SHOCK LENGTH 9.0”:
Front INITIAL FREE TRAVEL = 3.0"
Rear INITIAL FREE TRAVEL = 3.25"
If you would like to measure your own, note that I measured from the BOTTOM of the tophat to the lowest point in the opening of the shock perch. See photos. Where you measure to/from is arbitrary. Just make sure you remember where you measured to/from. But **YOU WILL NEED TO REMOVE THE SHOCKS FROM THE CAR TO GET A GOOD MEASUREMENT**
I feel that the stock springs have about 0.75 (3/4”) – 1” of preload on them. I cannot remember MY00 spring rates…but they’re on the forum sticky.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-br...prings-818884/
I then installed the suspension, CLOCKED THE BUSHINGS, set the car on the ground, and went for a drive.
When I came back, I first took pictures of the wheel gap, and measured the fender lip to wheel center to get some reference measurement:
**PLEASE DO NOT MAKE FUN OF MY HASTILY SPRAY PAINTED STORAGE WHEELS IT WILL HURT MY FEELINGS**
FRONT
REAR
REAR CLOSEUP:
The front of my car seems normal.
The back of my car is about 0.5” taller than the average S2000. I see posted measurements of stock rear gap ranging from 14.25 to 14.625”. I’ll settle at ~14.5 as being average.
If someone wants to provide me some measurements of a completely 100000% stock S2000’s wheel gap, it would be helpful!
Now for compressed shock travel.
Front COMPRESSED SHOCK LENGTH 6.75”:
Rear COMPRESSED SHOCK LENGTH 7” (The tape is tilted. Its 7”):
This means that when the car is on the ground, the stock travel using
INITIAL FREE TRAVEL – [ INITIAL SHOCK LENGTH – COMPRESSED SHOCK LENGTH ] = REMAINING FREE TRAVEL:
What I am measuring is how much travel my STOCK suspension has at regular static ride height before touching the bumpstop.
FRONT:
3.00 – [ 8.75 - 6.75] = 1.00” (REFERENCE: WHEEL TO CENTER HEIGHT IS 14”)
REAR
3.25 – [ 9.00 - 7.00] = 1.25” (REFERENCE: WHEEL TO CENTER HEIGHT IS 15”)
SakeBomb Garage has done some awesome research on the motion ratios of S2000’s.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-br...atios-1160445/
If you trust my measurements and you want to find the remaining shock travel using stock shocks and YOUR ride height, you can do so thusly:
Lets use the rear suspension for this example.
Take a made up S2000 with a 13.5” wheel arch to hub center measurement.
Remember, for reference, my car, at 15” wheel arch to hub center, had ~1.25” of clear shock travel.
15 - 13.5” = 1.5” lower at the tyre than my car.
Rear motion ratio is 1.73:1 (Wheel:Shock).
1.5/1.73 = 0.86”.
A car that is 1.5” lower than mine at the tyre will have 0.86” less clear shock travel than my car. I had 1.25”
1.25-0.86 = 0.39.
If you lower your car to 13.5” from fender arch to wheel center, you will have 0.39” of clear shock travel remaning.
13.5” from arch to hub center is about 1” lower than the average stock S2000.
Something to think about before SLMMMN UR SHt INTO THE DIRT.
Player.
Someone please feel free to let me know if you see any errors. Also remember that while I measured to the best of my ability…I may be off by a small amount.
My S2000 is on Ohlins DFV’s with off the shelf settings. I put the car in storage about a month ago, and had planned on constructing my own lower mounts for said Ohlins in order to get the back of the car a little lower while adding more preload to (and travel) to the rear suspension.
But more on that later.
I decided to take the Ohlins off the car and bring them home to measure the lower brackets. To do this…I had to either store the car on jack stands (nah) or put the stock suspension back on.
I thought that putting the stock suspension on would be the perfect opportunity to test the parameters of the stock suspension. I re-assembled my stock shocks/springs that had been sitting in my parents’ basement since…like…2007?
There has been so much talk about how much free-travel (before touching bumpstop) the Ohlins should have….that I don’t know if anybody has ever posted those measurements of the stock suspension. In other words – what do we start with??
My stock suspension has about 23K miles on it. It had been used for about 2-5K of those miles on Skunk2 lowering springs. And I had also used the rear shocks to confirm that S2000 rear shocks fit on the back of a Civic.
So…they’re not off the shelf new. But they are in great shape and will give me a good basis.
Some background info on my car:
-MY00.
-Full tank of gas.
-No driver.
-Removed some weight as noted thusly (weights are approximated):
I re-assembled the shocks without the dust boot. That way, I can back up my measurements with actual visual proof of where the bumpstop sits.
To start (remember the units in bold)
Front INITIAL SHOCK LENGTH 8.75”:
Rear INITIAL SHOCK LENGTH 9.0”:
Front INITIAL FREE TRAVEL = 3.0"
Rear INITIAL FREE TRAVEL = 3.25"
If you would like to measure your own, note that I measured from the BOTTOM of the tophat to the lowest point in the opening of the shock perch. See photos. Where you measure to/from is arbitrary. Just make sure you remember where you measured to/from. But **YOU WILL NEED TO REMOVE THE SHOCKS FROM THE CAR TO GET A GOOD MEASUREMENT**
I feel that the stock springs have about 0.75 (3/4”) – 1” of preload on them. I cannot remember MY00 spring rates…but they’re on the forum sticky.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-br...prings-818884/
I then installed the suspension, CLOCKED THE BUSHINGS, set the car on the ground, and went for a drive.
When I came back, I first took pictures of the wheel gap, and measured the fender lip to wheel center to get some reference measurement:
**PLEASE DO NOT MAKE FUN OF MY HASTILY SPRAY PAINTED STORAGE WHEELS IT WILL HURT MY FEELINGS**
FRONT
REAR
REAR CLOSEUP:
The front of my car seems normal.
The back of my car is about 0.5” taller than the average S2000. I see posted measurements of stock rear gap ranging from 14.25 to 14.625”. I’ll settle at ~14.5 as being average.
If someone wants to provide me some measurements of a completely 100000% stock S2000’s wheel gap, it would be helpful!
Now for compressed shock travel.
Front COMPRESSED SHOCK LENGTH 6.75”:
Rear COMPRESSED SHOCK LENGTH 7” (The tape is tilted. Its 7”):
This means that when the car is on the ground, the stock travel using
INITIAL FREE TRAVEL – [ INITIAL SHOCK LENGTH – COMPRESSED SHOCK LENGTH ] = REMAINING FREE TRAVEL:
What I am measuring is how much travel my STOCK suspension has at regular static ride height before touching the bumpstop.
FRONT:
3.00 – [ 8.75 - 6.75] = 1.00” (REFERENCE: WHEEL TO CENTER HEIGHT IS 14”)
REAR
3.25 – [ 9.00 - 7.00] = 1.25” (REFERENCE: WHEEL TO CENTER HEIGHT IS 15”)
SakeBomb Garage has done some awesome research on the motion ratios of S2000’s.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-br...atios-1160445/
If you trust my measurements and you want to find the remaining shock travel using stock shocks and YOUR ride height, you can do so thusly:
Lets use the rear suspension for this example.
Take a made up S2000 with a 13.5” wheel arch to hub center measurement.
Remember, for reference, my car, at 15” wheel arch to hub center, had ~1.25” of clear shock travel.
15 - 13.5” = 1.5” lower at the tyre than my car.
Rear motion ratio is 1.73:1 (Wheel:Shock).
1.5/1.73 = 0.86”.
A car that is 1.5” lower than mine at the tyre will have 0.86” less clear shock travel than my car. I had 1.25”
1.25-0.86 = 0.39.
If you lower your car to 13.5” from fender arch to wheel center, you will have 0.39” of clear shock travel remaning.
13.5” from arch to hub center is about 1” lower than the average stock S2000.
Something to think about before SLMMMN UR SHt INTO THE DIRT.
Player.
Someone please feel free to let me know if you see any errors. Also remember that while I measured to the best of my ability…I may be off by a small amount.
Last edited by B serious; 12-10-2016 at 11:04 PM.
12-10-2016, 10:33 PM
#2
Thread Starter
Driving impressions of the stock suspension:
This is from memory of a few weeks ago. The car was unaligned while driving it....so I'll try to isolate my observations on the suspension feel itself.
The stock suspension is pretty damn good. It keeps the car fairly flat, and responds quickly. It doesn't float over dips. But it feels a little soft.
I hear a lot of people say that the Ohlins, in off the shelf form, with Ohlins' recommended settings (via the manual) ride better than stock.
I'm...not really seeing that. The stock suspension is much more comfortable over a much wider range of bumps. Where the Ohlins DO shine, however, is on small, fast, successive bumps. They shrug those off, while the stock suspension will rattle over them.
What I think of my Ohlins:
That kind of tells me that what the Ohlins need is more travel to work. I think that with additional travel, especially from the REAR shocks, the Ohlins would have a chance to shine. They probably work pretty well for roads in California, Southern Nevada, Southern Arizona, Tennesse, the Carolinas, or other states that have well maintained roads and/or no real weather to ruin the roads, for the most part.
I live in the Chicago burbs. The roads aren't smooth here. The biggest problem is what I have dubbed "axle breakers". The type of bumps that would damage your drive axles if you're flooring it over them in a low gear.
They compress the suspension hard enough to cause a huge bumpstop impact which launches the car upward. If you look at the car in front of you, you can see their suspenion vibrate/hop over these bumps. These stupid assed things are everywhere. It's like slamming into a small speed bump at 60mph. And it happens every 500-1000 feet on most well travelled local highways.
I don't drive my S2000 in winter. But...the axle breakers get worse in summer because the roads expand and the bumps rise up. Like mini plate-tectonics.
Suspensions with good travel favor much better.
That being said....here are the measurements from my Ohlins:
I put them on using Ohlins' settings as far as preload goes. I have the stock 10 & 8 KG/mm springs. The initial shock to bumpstop free travel is ~2.13" in the back. So about 1.12" shorter initial travel than stock.
The spring starts out at 198mm (7.79") before it's put into the car. I confirmed this when I removed them a few weeks ago. 198-199 is what I measured.
Installed, and with the car on the ground, the spring measures 159mm (6.25").
Using the equation from the prior post,
2.13 - [7.79 - 6.25] = 0.59".
I have 0.59" of shock free travel before I get in the car.
I'm like 155-160LB. I dunno how much each shock compresses with me in the car. Obviously, this is different for everyone.
This is from memory of a few weeks ago. The car was unaligned while driving it....so I'll try to isolate my observations on the suspension feel itself.
The stock suspension is pretty damn good. It keeps the car fairly flat, and responds quickly. It doesn't float over dips. But it feels a little soft.
I hear a lot of people say that the Ohlins, in off the shelf form, with Ohlins' recommended settings (via the manual) ride better than stock.
I'm...not really seeing that. The stock suspension is much more comfortable over a much wider range of bumps. Where the Ohlins DO shine, however, is on small, fast, successive bumps. They shrug those off, while the stock suspension will rattle over them.
What I think of my Ohlins:
That kind of tells me that what the Ohlins need is more travel to work. I think that with additional travel, especially from the REAR shocks, the Ohlins would have a chance to shine. They probably work pretty well for roads in California, Southern Nevada, Southern Arizona, Tennesse, the Carolinas, or other states that have well maintained roads and/or no real weather to ruin the roads, for the most part.
I live in the Chicago burbs. The roads aren't smooth here. The biggest problem is what I have dubbed "axle breakers". The type of bumps that would damage your drive axles if you're flooring it over them in a low gear.
They compress the suspension hard enough to cause a huge bumpstop impact which launches the car upward. If you look at the car in front of you, you can see their suspenion vibrate/hop over these bumps. These stupid assed things are everywhere. It's like slamming into a small speed bump at 60mph. And it happens every 500-1000 feet on most well travelled local highways.
I don't drive my S2000 in winter. But...the axle breakers get worse in summer because the roads expand and the bumps rise up. Like mini plate-tectonics.
Suspensions with good travel favor much better.
That being said....here are the measurements from my Ohlins:
I put them on using Ohlins' settings as far as preload goes. I have the stock 10 & 8 KG/mm springs. The initial shock to bumpstop free travel is ~2.13" in the back. So about 1.12" shorter initial travel than stock.
The spring starts out at 198mm (7.79") before it's put into the car. I confirmed this when I removed them a few weeks ago. 198-199 is what I measured.
Installed, and with the car on the ground, the spring measures 159mm (6.25").
Using the equation from the prior post,
2.13 - [7.79 - 6.25] = 0.59".
I have 0.59" of shock free travel before I get in the car.
I'm like 155-160LB. I dunno how much each shock compresses with me in the car. Obviously, this is different for everyone.
Last edited by B serious; 12-12-2016 at 05:20 PM.
12-10-2016, 11:00 PM
#3
Thread Starter
More Ohlins measurements:
I want more travel...but would like to lower the back of the car just a tiny bit. I am currently at 12.25" Front and 12.5" Rear; from wheel center to fender arch. Or:
The shock threads into the lower mount by about 90mm, So...its bottomed out. If I were to add the amount of preload I needed to get about 1'' or more of free travel, The car's back end would end up higher than I have it now. Nah.
My thoughts were make a lower mount. This had been done before...and I've been pondering making my own.
BUT....looking at the cost of a decent M52X1.5 tap by itself....I started thinking of other ways.
I could probably make the lower lower "stem" (silver) porition of the mount. I could bolt it on and wouldn't need to buy an expensive tap.
After pricing out some designs....I decided that I am probably better off buying pre-made mounts like the ones SakeBomb has developed.
So that's where I'm at for now. I will likely buy a set of lower mounts and then re-measure this stuff if there is a warm-ish day between now and spring. The garage is heated. But I am weak and hot desert blood still flows through my veins.
I'll update the thread whenever I make progress.
I want more travel...but would like to lower the back of the car just a tiny bit. I am currently at 12.25" Front and 12.5" Rear; from wheel center to fender arch. Or:
The shock threads into the lower mount by about 90mm, So...its bottomed out. If I were to add the amount of preload I needed to get about 1'' or more of free travel, The car's back end would end up higher than I have it now. Nah.
My thoughts were make a lower mount. This had been done before...and I've been pondering making my own.
BUT....looking at the cost of a decent M52X1.5 tap by itself....I started thinking of other ways.
I could probably make the lower lower "stem" (silver) porition of the mount. I could bolt it on and wouldn't need to buy an expensive tap.
After pricing out some designs....I decided that I am probably better off buying pre-made mounts like the ones SakeBomb has developed.
So that's where I'm at for now. I will likely buy a set of lower mounts and then re-measure this stuff if there is a warm-ish day between now and spring. The garage is heated. But I am weak and hot desert blood still flows through my veins.
I'll update the thread whenever I make progress.
12-11-2016, 01:38 AM
#4
great post ! lots of useful information for us newbies.. thanks! car looks sick, clean, 350z intake duct? can you post pics of your set up? ok back to suspension. changing the lower mounts will only lower the car but it will still have the same travel issues? is there any info on with ohlins is working on updating their suspension ? i read a old post back from 2011 to 2012 the ohlins suspension was updated? i would love for a new update to fix these issues
12-11-2016, 02:35 AM
#5
Lower brackets from Japan for the Ohlins S2000 look very nice
OHLINS Short lower bracket for penetration type damper (right and left set)
It becomes left and right set
OHLINS Short lower bracket for penetration type damper (right and left set)
It becomes left and right set
OHLINS/DFV。 OHLINS / DFV is a rear lower bracket that was developed for the damper. 。 40 mm short of the full length without affecting the spring set length will be available by the through formulas. Since we set the screw length so that it can further 20 mm short of a lathe, etc., also enables a maximum of +2 inch series-wound spring-loaded. 。 Helper / tender / twin remains vehicle height down pillow upper specification to users like the vehicle height is no longer drop by a set length secure and high-rate of the spring of is possible.
12-11-2016, 03:44 AM
#6
We've been banging on about this for a long time, but no one wanted to listen. The silliest part is the fix is SIMPLE! Pre-load. The amount of preload you put into the spring (spring rate vs compression distance) dictates the amount of effective corner weight of the car that you are negating. This in return lightens up that corner of the car, raising it into the air and buying you shock travel in compression. The side effect is that you now need to lower the car, however with an appropriate amount of pre-load you will not be able to drop the car low enough with the stock lower mounts. Hence the SakeBomb Garage billet lower mounts. The stock mounts can't effectively be modified, they simply will not work for this purpose.
I find it odd that no one wants to listen until they physically prove facts to themselves... we've literally been saying the same thing over and over with measurements, graphs, and calculations to back it up, but apparently talking into talking into a black hole until recently
Anyway, if we can help just holler... I know you've been battling this issue for a long time. The first production run is sold out but we have our next run scheduled and are taking pre-orders now through the website. Looking at a few weeks for the next (small) second run.
SBG Billet Extended Lower Cup (S2000 Ohlins DFV Rear Ride Height Adjustment Kit) - SakeBomb Garage LLC
I find it odd that no one wants to listen until they physically prove facts to themselves... we've literally been saying the same thing over and over with measurements, graphs, and calculations to back it up, but apparently talking into talking into a black hole until recently
Anyway, if we can help just holler... I know you've been battling this issue for a long time. The first production run is sold out but we have our next run scheduled and are taking pre-orders now through the website. Looking at a few weeks for the next (small) second run.SBG Billet Extended Lower Cup (S2000 Ohlins DFV Rear Ride Height Adjustment Kit) - SakeBomb Garage LLC
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SAKEBOMB GARAGE > Click here to contact Us
Check some of our most popular products for the S2000:
- Ohlins DFV Billet Lower Mount
- Rear BBK RX-8 Caliper Conversion
- Front BBK AP Competition
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SAKEBOMB GARAGE > Click here to contact Us
Check some of our most popular products for the S2000:
- Ohlins DFV Billet Lower Mount
- Rear BBK RX-8 Caliper Conversion
- Front BBK AP Competition
- Setrab Oil Cooler Kit
12-11-2016, 05:12 AM
#7
Thread Starter
great post ! lots of useful information for us newbies.. thanks! car looks sick, clean, 350z intake duct? can you post pics of your set up? ok back to suspension. changing the lower mounts will only lower the car but it will still have the same travel issues? is there any info on with ohlins is working on updating their suspension ? i read a old post back from 2011 to 2012 the ohlins suspension was updated? i would love for a new update to fix these issuesThe aftermarket lower mounts will allow me to add preload to the spring....but stay at my ride height, or lower it if I want.
With the stock Öhlins mount, one would need to choose between shock travel and achieving the desired ride height.
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12-11-2016, 05:15 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Ah! Much better in gold.
12-11-2016, 06:13 AM
#9
Great info....
The only thing i can add is I remember my oem wheel gap being about 14-14.25".
Bottom line is if you want to be about 12-12.5 gap and add the right amount of preload, you will need a new lower mount. SBG has been all over this.
The only thing i can add is I remember my oem wheel gap being about 14-14.25".
Bottom line is if you want to be about 12-12.5 gap and add the right amount of preload, you will need a new lower mount. SBG has been all over this.
12-11-2016, 06:57 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Wow. If the stock rear gap is 14.25, that leaves you about .82" of available travel from the stock shock.
