unstable at high speeds
11-17-2016, 06:46 AM
#11
Lower tire pressure for sure.
I would keep rear toe where it is. Based on feedback and recommendations from these forums, I ran a lot of rear toe-in for my first track event in my stock AP1, the max spec of 0.64 degrees total toe in. Handling was weird, nonlinear, would kinda "lurch" on entry before settling into neutral handling mid-corner. After event #2 with this setup (4 track days, but one day sharing the car, probably 5 hrs track time), rear tires were corded! I couldn't live with tire wear rate, so had rear toe re-set to the min spec of 0.32 degrees or 0.16 degrees per side, at least that's what I asked for. They wound up giving me 0.16 degrees TOTAL, exactly what OP has. Was too late to "fix" it before my track event so I ran it, totally expecting the car to be a total oversteering handful. Lo and behold, the handling was more predictable and linear, *more* stable. Better in every way, and tire life more than doubled. Street manners were better, if anything, vs. running max spec rear toe.
I have done a couple of inadvertent "blind" experiments with rear toe-in, and for me, a lot of it has always sucked, bad, for everything. Once the car was just all over the place over any sort of bumps or undulations while driving in a straight line on the street. Turned out the rear toe had gone way out of adjustment and I was up to 1 degree (!) total. Knocked it back down to 0.15 degrees and stability and handling sweetness returned.
Anyway, that's my 0.02 on rear toe-in...
You might consider a *smidge* of front toe-in, like 0.1 degrees total, but I've always had good stability over 120mph (at faster tracks like Mosport and Watkins Glen) running zero front toe. As long as rear toe was kept minimized...
I would keep rear toe where it is. Based on feedback and recommendations from these forums, I ran a lot of rear toe-in for my first track event in my stock AP1, the max spec of 0.64 degrees total toe in. Handling was weird, nonlinear, would kinda "lurch" on entry before settling into neutral handling mid-corner. After event #2 with this setup (4 track days, but one day sharing the car, probably 5 hrs track time), rear tires were corded! I couldn't live with tire wear rate, so had rear toe re-set to the min spec of 0.32 degrees or 0.16 degrees per side, at least that's what I asked for. They wound up giving me 0.16 degrees TOTAL, exactly what OP has. Was too late to "fix" it before my track event so I ran it, totally expecting the car to be a total oversteering handful. Lo and behold, the handling was more predictable and linear, *more* stable. Better in every way, and tire life more than doubled. Street manners were better, if anything, vs. running max spec rear toe.
I have done a couple of inadvertent "blind" experiments with rear toe-in, and for me, a lot of it has always sucked, bad, for everything. Once the car was just all over the place over any sort of bumps or undulations while driving in a straight line on the street. Turned out the rear toe had gone way out of adjustment and I was up to 1 degree (!) total. Knocked it back down to 0.15 degrees and stability and handling sweetness returned.
Anyway, that's my 0.02 on rear toe-in...
You might consider a *smidge* of front toe-in, like 0.1 degrees total, but I've always had good stability over 120mph (at faster tracks like Mosport and Watkins Glen) running zero front toe. As long as rear toe was kept minimized...
11-17-2016, 08:43 AM
#12
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I assume you meant rear camber is -2.7 correct ?, seems a bit high to me but the instability must be toe related. You have .16 total rear toe in , make sure it wasn't done as toe out. I would have a shop double check your settings in case something loosened up. Running a bit more rear toe in can give you more stability on the street.
11-17-2016, 08:48 AM
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Lower tire pressure for sure.
I would keep rear toe where it is. Based on feedback and recommendations from these forums, I ran a lot of rear toe-in for my first track event in my stock AP1, the max spec of 0.64 degrees total toe in. Handling was weird, nonlinear, would kinda "lurch" on entry before settling into neutral handling mid-corner. After event #2 with this setup (4 track days, but one day sharing the car, probably 5 hrs track time), rear tires were corded! I couldn't live with tire wear rate, so had rear toe re-set to the min spec of 0.32 degrees or 0.16 degrees per side, at least that's what I asked for. They wound up giving me 0.16 degrees TOTAL, exactly what OP has. Was too late to "fix" it before my track event so I ran it, totally expecting the car to be a total oversteering handful. Lo and behold, the handling was more predictable and linear, *more* stable. Better in every way, and tire life more than doubled. Street manners were better, if anything, vs. running max spec rear toe.
I have done a couple of inadvertent "blind" experiments with rear toe-in, and for me, a lot of it has always sucked, bad, for everything. Once the car was just all over the place over any sort of bumps or undulations while driving in a straight line on the street. Turned out the rear toe had gone way out of adjustment and I was up to 1 degree (!) total. Knocked it back down to 0.15 degrees and stability and handling sweetness returned.
Anyway, that's my 0.02 on rear toe-in...
You might consider a *smidge* of front toe-in, like 0.1 degrees total, but I've always had good stability over 120mph (at faster tracks like Mosport and Watkins Glen) running zero front toe. As long as rear toe was kept minimized...
I would keep rear toe where it is. Based on feedback and recommendations from these forums, I ran a lot of rear toe-in for my first track event in my stock AP1, the max spec of 0.64 degrees total toe in. Handling was weird, nonlinear, would kinda "lurch" on entry before settling into neutral handling mid-corner. After event #2 with this setup (4 track days, but one day sharing the car, probably 5 hrs track time), rear tires were corded! I couldn't live with tire wear rate, so had rear toe re-set to the min spec of 0.32 degrees or 0.16 degrees per side, at least that's what I asked for. They wound up giving me 0.16 degrees TOTAL, exactly what OP has. Was too late to "fix" it before my track event so I ran it, totally expecting the car to be a total oversteering handful. Lo and behold, the handling was more predictable and linear, *more* stable. Better in every way, and tire life more than doubled. Street manners were better, if anything, vs. running max spec rear toe.
I have done a couple of inadvertent "blind" experiments with rear toe-in, and for me, a lot of it has always sucked, bad, for everything. Once the car was just all over the place over any sort of bumps or undulations while driving in a straight line on the street. Turned out the rear toe had gone way out of adjustment and I was up to 1 degree (!) total. Knocked it back down to 0.15 degrees and stability and handling sweetness returned.
Anyway, that's my 0.02 on rear toe-in...
You might consider a *smidge* of front toe-in, like 0.1 degrees total, but I've always had good stability over 120mph (at faster tracks like Mosport and Watkins Glen) running zero front toe. As long as rear toe was kept minimized...
11-17-2016, 11:40 AM
#14
s
You want toe *in* so the rear tires leading edge is closer to car. Like this looking down on car from above / \
If its like this \ / your going to have one hell of a handful in trying to keep the rear in check.
YES -2.7 Degree camber in the rear and .16 total toe, correct me if I'm wrong but .16 is total toe out and negative -.16 is total toe in, so I have .16 which is 0.08 on each side and it's positive so I should have total toe out right now. Do I need to go negative -0.16 total toe in? Or out how it is right now.
If its like this \ / your going to have one hell of a handful in trying to keep the rear in check.
Last edited by s2000Junky; 11-17-2016 at 11:47 AM.
11-17-2016, 12:13 PM
#15
No, positive is toe-IN, and negative is toe-OUT. IMO your rear toe-in of 0.16 degrees total is fine.
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