dctrpark

this was i post i made when i owned a 98 prelude..i thought it might be helpful for s2k owners too.

http://www.preludeonline.com/showthread.ph...?threadid=56123

or

here:

BUYING ALARM??? READ THIS FIRST !! trust me!!!
i'VE been in the mobile audio-industry for about 2 years now workin on custom installs, and alarms. And to tell you the truth, as an installer i really cant recommend ANY type of alarm other than clifford. My car curently has the avant guard in it and once i arm it, i couldn't steal my own car without disarming it. DO NOT GO CHEAP ON YOUR ALARM THERE IS A REASON WHY ONE COSTS $400 compared to $99, reason is this:

reason 1- 99%(which includes viper,python,bicron, clarion ungo, alpine, KARR, and the endless # off brands) of alarms use a basic relay switch to trigger the siren. Meaning that once the alarm detects a trigger, it simply shoots a hot to the siren thus giving power, thus making noise. EVERY one that steals cars has knowledge of this. Therefore, when someone is trying to jack your car, he simply reaches under and cuts the only wire that is comeing through your firewall. the whole preocedure takes 10 seconds. BAM..your alarm has been disabled.

reason 2- the ignition kills provided in 99% of alarms are a joke. There are five pins on the side of a relay. when an alarm is armed, it sends a ground to the relay thus opening the circuit, thus cutting your ignition. all i have to do as a car jacker is simply pull one of the ignition plugs out of the relay and plug it into the relay pin in the middle, which would close my circuit. disable time=5sec.

reason 3- 99% of the shops that do install alarms put the alarm brain in almost the exact same place. within 12 inches of the steering column. Every car jacker knows this also. Once they find the alarm brain, they disconnect it, fix the ignition kill from reason 2(5 secs) and its like you car never had an alarm.

reason 4- there is alot of hype in the alarm industry, all this jazz about alarm remote signal re-encoding, digital this, digital that, fancy little remotes, let me be the first to tell you that it is a bunch of bulls**t!!! Almost ALL of them 99%(theres that percentage again) do the same thing except diffrent packaging.
sort of like strut tie bars, all do the same thing, but some are made better, but dont really fucntion better.

reason 5-your probably thinking why the hell, do they charge $100 for a viper alarm when the $100 alarms are so easily disabled? The alarms barely cost the dealers $30 per unit. YOU ARE PAYING FOR LABOR NOT AUTO-SECURITY!!!! reason is the alarms are ussually nothing more than a buncha minature relays packed nicely in a black box. Also if they every try to bust something like"yea you have a complicated car and there are a bunhc of special wires" tell them to suckit cuz to hooki up a viper alarm takes about 30 min because there are only 7 wires to connect.

dont believe me? if you fear you have one of these alarms check for your self;. find the brain, and actually count howmany wires are connected to your car.
you should find this:

red- power
black - ground
yellow - ignition
green/blue - doorlocks
white - parking lights
orange - ground for ignition kill
brown - siren
green - door trigger

anycolor - shock sensor

that is your basic alarm. now look at those wires. how many are actually a type of wire for securing your car? 2.
your door trigger, and the schock sensor. thats it. everyother wire is for power , or to open your door., or to flash your parking lights. This is your basic viper 300-800. if you have remote start then you have four extra relays, but no added security.

sorta scary isn't it?
i dont mean to scare you guys, but as a 5thgen fellow prelude owner i feel that i should share the truth with you.

so now you ask? what makes clifford diffrent?

first of all, the clifford siren for the higher models is self powered. that means the alarm does not send power to the siren to make it make noise, it ssends a digital signal thus removing the ability to shut the siren up. ALso the siren is in continual communication with the alarm brain, so if the communication is cut it knows something is wrong and then makes noise.

second, the ignition kill is built into the alarm brain itself and not simply a external relay attached to the cars ignition. This there fore does not allow for the car jacker to simply rewire the ignition.

third, the lead wires supplied with the cliford alarms are unbelevably looooong. This is so the alarm brain can be mounted extremely far from the steering column. Mine is in my rear left 1/4 panel. this makes it nearly impossible for the car jacker to find and disalbe.

fourth, most alarms have only 2 wires to detect intrusion, the lowest model of clifford has 5, and the highest model with a staggering 23. more trggers meaning harder to steal, tamper.

fifth, you have the option of adding a wireless imoblizer. simply put it is a remote fuel control that has no wires connected to your brain. your alarm communicates with the fuel cutoff via radio. So the switch is untraceable. once armed the alarm sends a radio signal to cut the fuel unless the alarm tells it to reconnect. so even if the car jacker finds the brain, kills the siren, and hot wires the ignition, unless you disarm it with your remote, he gets no fuel and you car stays where you left it.

lasytly, any dealer that is certified to carry clifford and legally distribute and install the alarm system is aware of all the points i have just mentioned. so if you but the clffiord alarm you can rest assured that it was installed(unless this shop is not reputable) corectly and in the best fashion possible to prevent auto losss.

conclusion?

buy the clifford, spend the extra $300-400, or dont spend $100 and save it until you can buy the clifford.

keep your car.

peace.

andrew

kobiejoohn

I agree that Clifford has probably the best overall system out for pure protection, the ag-4. But some of the info is not totally correct. Any dei system weather it be viper, Clifford, python etc... can be upgraded to have similar features with the exception of the wireless immobilizer. Dei makes a 520t back up battery, 515r backup siren.

Any dei product which is properly installed can be triggered by the ignition turning on, door opening, impact via the shock sensor and any other options added such as 506t glass sensor hood or trunk pins.

Regarding the ignition/starter kill the only difference is that on some of the original Clifford units (I think the ag-4 & solaris) have the relay built into the brain and they are normally open, this can be accomplished on a dei by adding a second relay. Any good installer will hide this relay and integrate the wiring to resemble the stock wires. From a quick glance at most of the other Clifford including the 700-900 IQ series they have the exact same type of starter kill as any of the other alarm you mentioned.

I am curious on were you are able to buy dei systems for 30.00 even if you are a volume dealer there systems are considerably more expensive than this.

Not trying to flame your post but as with any system its all in the install. You can make any dei system equal to the Clifford with the exception of the ag-4 which again I agree with you that is a very good system if a very knowledgeable installer has put it in. I have pulled a few ag-4 systems out of cars because either the system was lacking in the install dept. or it was just to confusing for the end user to operate. Just because someone carries Clifford does not mean that all the techs have the ability to install one properly.

dctrpark

sure...many of the dei products can me made to equal the performance of the cliffords, and yes you can mimick cliffords ignition kill with a second relay, but that happens to be you. In reality MOST not ALL, but most shops will not go through the little small extra steps that would make the regular viper more effective. At $100 bucks we both know exactly what the shop is doing, in and out in 30 mins.

what im getting at is that if a clifford alarm is purchased, due to the complexity of the alarm's install procedure(assuming that the shop is doing it correctly) the installer tends to take the install more seriously, thus installing a more effective alarm.(hopefully)

i guess the purpose of my post is to let the owners know what exactly is going on when they go in to get a 100 dollar alarm put in.

im saying it is a waste of money.

STL

Code Alarms have a built-in normally open relay for starter disable.

Ubetit

I have a friend that is an insurance adjuster. Half the cars he sees broken into, stolen or stripped have alarms... which didn't seem to do them much good.

MacGyver

Some useful info here, and though I know it will start a flame war, half of it is pretty far off base.

1) There are quite a few wires coming through our firewalls, so if someone were to start snipping, expect the car to stop working, alarm or no alarm. Also, if someone has the ability to reach into my engine bay from underneath (without a jack), they have mastered mechanic-jitsu and can bend in ways not humanly possible, not to mention actually seeing what they're cutting. I think it would take more than 10 seconds to fnd the right wire even if they HAD a view of what's in there.

2) What you describe is no different than hot-wiring a car. Bypassing the relay on the alarm is equivalent to bypassing the ignition switch on a non-alarm car...nothing magical about that. I don't pay attention to how many alarms out there need an external relay for polarity inversion, but even for the ones that do, I would think hiding the relay itself instead of the alarm would force the would-be thieves to spend a LOT more than 5 seconds tracking down where the wires go.

3) I agree with this point, for the most part. However, your time of 5 seconds is still way too short, IMO, so it's still going to take a would-be thief some time to get the car started, even after they disconnect the brain. Also, they would have to work on the stock ECU since the fuel pump will still be shut off, and that takes a lot fo time, as well.

4) I think I agree....most of the alarm remotes pretty much do the same thing. I mean, come on....there are only so many ways you can make spread spectrum work, or code-hopping work. Package it under whatever name you like, but it's the same technology, regardless. However, the better tchnologies, like spread spectrum broadcasting DO make it more difficult to steal the code (but not impossible ).

5) I can't imagine anything but the CHEAPEST of alarms costing them $30 wholesale...I'm thinking more along the lines of $100 for a decent model. And sorry, but the more features you add in, the more time it will take...granted, they shouldn't have to tap off of many wires elsewhere than your driver's bay pit, but they may still have to string wires elsewhere, such as proximity sensors, and that takes time (time = money). Sure, I COULD hook up an alram in 30 minutes, but the job would suck ROYALLY...which is usually what most companies do anyway (again, for them, time = money...more cars in less time = more money).

If alarms were nothing more than a bunch of relays in a black box, they WOULD cost $30, but there ARE brains inside. Do I think Clifford is a decent alarm system? Sure, why not. Are they better than other alarms out there costing equivalent amounts? Possible, but not very likely.

I'll agree with you that you get what you pay for....buy a $50 alarm and don't be surprised if your car is stolen. But what you pay for in higher priced alarms is added security (i.e., more sensors), not necessarily a better quality product. I installed an alarm that runs for $1000 (no, I didn't even pay half of that), but I went for the high end because of the extra features, not because I thought that brans was so much better than the others. All alarms can be bypassed by the right person, especially if they're installed incorrectly...no amount of extra money will change that fact.

My two cents...

jojipoji

wow all that for 2 cents

CBeyond

How difficult is it to install an alarm like one of the Clifford models yourself? One thing I seem to gather from this thread is that the quality of the install is a very important variable. Therefore, it seems logical that no one is going to make it more perfect than I can. Also, perhaps a self-install would result in components being hidden in more non-standard places than the plug-and-chug installers would do. True or false?

Bass

[QUOTE]Originally posted by CBeyond
[B]How difficult is it to install an alarm like one of the Clifford models yourself?

Kyushin

Old thread, but can any of the pros say the more recent alarms have any added security benefits?