s2000Junky

Maybe yes depending on your pulley size choice, but only at 5k rpm and probably not in the way your thinking about it. Our engine flows a lot of cfm at peak rpm, about as much as a standard v8 and any common sized turbo for an s2k application produces significantly more boost at 5k rpm then any supercharger does. The 1200 I think is a perfect match. It produces more power over the 1220 through the entire rpm range given the same pulley size. The 1500 is arguably to big, because its parasitic loss doesn't overcome a 1200 until its over spun to the hilt, and its only seen at peak at much more boost, so from an efficiency standpoint its inferior, and thats how you have to look at sizing a blower to an engine, then comes pulley sizing. I just feel like you guys are treading into complications ive never heard of running this blower until now, the vast majority of us have never had compressor surge issues with it. So that makes me think you have added variables that are creating a problem which isn't the blowers fault. With the standard 5.45 crank pulley and 3.2" blower pulley, the 1200 redlines at 8350 engine rpm. If your math is off or simply ignoring this and over spinning the blower, then expect to have mixed results.
[/quote]

I know others have had success with this blower, but my setup is not far off from anyone else who has used it. The compressor map shows that the s2000 engine is right on the surge line. I have ran a 3.2 pulley and it still fluctuates. I believe what is overlooked is the amount of CFM that this thing moves. I'm not vast with turbos, but I believe the 1200 has a higher cfm rating at lower psi numbers as compared to a similar sized turbo.

The only great departure I have added is the Tial QRJ, and that should not have affected it unless it was leaking...which after numerous test I have found that it is not. I'm still completely open to ideas.
[/quote]

The little old NV1000 we ran on our old Comptech kits for the last 10 years was 900cfm. The 1200 upgrade is rated at 1150cfm offered later when the 1220 series came out to replace the NV1000 just for fyi and any turbo cfm cross reference.

I would bet some small cookies that your chosen BOV and spring/adjustment opening/closing timing may not be calibrated appropriately, influencing the symptoms experienced. That is a Turbo BOV which do have different operating parameters over a centrifugal sc valve. I would get your hands on a original Bosch diverter valve, and run that inline and make sure your Tial is timed in sync with the Bosch unit, only then would I feel comfortable moving on to troubleshooting in a different area. You can simply do this by verifying the valves are venting at idle as they are blowing on your hand, and then close at same time when you turn the TB by hand to induce throttle. Making sure the BOV is holding to redline at max boost is important to, but shouldn't influence your problem I wouldn't think, cant do that under the hood anyway.

Another thing to check, make sure air cleaner or related intake piping are not collapsing or creating obstruction under higher pressures.
[/quote]

The QRJ was developed for superchargers. I have the -1.5psi spring in it. Even still, this was my first point of diagnostics. I capped off the Tial and ran my old Bosch off the air injection nipple. I knew this was asking a lot from the Bosch, but it didn't change the fluctuation at all. I then went back to just the Tial and mounted a gopro under the hood to watch the valve while driving. It is completely sealing under full throttle and seems to be venting appropriately according to vacuum/load. My fluctuation in boost occurs at anything above 60% throttle, including WOT.

I have also tried three different air filters. One of them was a shorty style to get rid of the supplied SOS tube. Fluctuations stay the same with any air filter.

This is the video of the QRJ in action. 1:50 and 3:35 are good spots You can actually hear the flutter right before I let off. Especially 3:35.

https://youtu.be/qR4qwNdc4lE
[/quote]

I see, ok good, so will put that aside for now then. I'm at a loss for the info I have at the moment. Its tough to diagnose something on the internet with limited info and if this issue has never been experienced from the diagnose'r. Its grabbing at straws for the moment. Maybe the swap/conversion you had done to your blower to convert to a 1200 wasn't done properly, bad/wrong impeller etc.

rmerchant3

Maybe yes depending on your pulley size choice, but only at 5k rpm and probably not in the way your thinking about it. Our engine flows a lot of cfm at peak rpm, about as much as a standard v8 and any common sized turbo for an s2k application produces significantly more boost at 5k rpm then any supercharger does. The 1200 I think is a perfect match. It produces more power over the 1220 through the entire rpm range given the same pulley size. The 1500 is arguably to big, because its parasitic loss doesn't overcome a 1200 until its over spun to the hilt, and its only seen at peak at much more boost, so from an efficiency standpoint its inferior, and thats how you have to look at sizing a blower to an engine, then comes pulley sizing. I just feel like you guys are treading into complications ive never heard of running this blower until now, the vast majority of us have never had compressor surge issues with it. So that makes me think you have added variables that are creating a problem which isn't the blowers fault. With the standard 5.45 crank pulley and 3.2" blower pulley, the 1200 redlines at 8350 engine rpm. If your math is off or simply ignoring this and over spinning the blower, then expect to have mixed results.
[/quote]

I know others have had success with this blower, but my setup is not far off from anyone else who has used it. The compressor map shows that the s2000 engine is right on the surge line. I have ran a 3.2 pulley and it still fluctuates. I believe what is overlooked is the amount of CFM that this thing moves. I'm not vast with turbos, but I believe the 1200 has a higher cfm rating at lower psi numbers as compared to a similar sized turbo.

The only great departure I have added is the Tial QRJ, and that should not have affected it unless it was leaking...which after numerous test I have found that it is not. I'm still completely open to ideas.
[/quote]

The little old NV1000 we ran on our old Comptech kits for the last 10 years was 900cfm. The 1200 upgrade is rated at 1150cfm offered later when the 1220 series came out to replace the NV1000 just for fyi and any turbo cfm cross reference.

I would bet some small cookies that your chosen BOV and spring/adjustment opening/closing timing may not be calibrated appropriately, influencing the symptoms experienced. That is a Turbo BOV which do have different operating parameters over a centrifugal sc valve. I would get your hands on a original Bosch diverter valve, and run that inline and make sure your Tial is timed in sync with the Bosch unit, only then would I feel comfortable moving on to troubleshooting in a different area. You can simply do this by verifying the valves are venting at idle as they are blowing on your hand, and then close at same time when you turn the TB by hand to induce throttle. Making sure the BOV is holding to redline at max boost is important to, but shouldn't influence your problem I wouldn't think, cant do that under the hood anyway.

Another thing to check, make sure air cleaner or related intake piping are not collapsing or creating obstruction under higher pressures.
[/quote]

The QRJ was developed for superchargers. I have the -1.5psi spring in it. Even still, this was my first point of diagnostics. I capped off the Tial and ran my old Bosch off the air injection nipple. I knew this was asking a lot from the Bosch, but it didn't change the fluctuation at all. I then went back to just the Tial and mounted a gopro under the hood to watch the valve while driving. It is completely sealing under full throttle and seems to be venting appropriately according to vacuum/load. My fluctuation in boost occurs at anything above 60% throttle, including WOT.

I have also tried three different air filters. One of them was a shorty style to get rid of the supplied SOS tube. Fluctuations stay the same with any air filter.

This is the video of the QRJ in action. 1:50 and 3:35 are good spots You can actually hear the flutter right before I let off. Especially 3:35.

https://youtu.be/qR4qwNdc4lE
[/quote]

I see, ok good, so will put that aside for now then. I'm at a loss for the info I have at the moment. Its tough to diagnose something on the internet with limited info and if this issue has never been experienced from the diagnose'r. Its grabbing at straws for the moment. Maybe the swap/conversion you had done to your blower to convert to a 1200 wasn't done properly, bad/wrong impeller etc.
[/quote]

Yeah, internet fixes are no fun. I'm grasping at straws myself, as I have tried to eliminate every change I made to my original setup. I'm going with surge, as it is the most likely culprit. If I want to push as much boost as I was planning, I'll just wait until I can change to some lower compression pistons.

Oh and Paxton didn't offer much help besides it either works or doesn't.

s2000Junky

Weird, because I know a few guys on here that did what your trying to do on E85 with this blower, as well as the 1500, running up to mid 20's psi on stock block, pushing around 600whp. Never heard of any surge issues until now.

s2000Junky

Here is this one. He started out with a 1200 and made about 560whp if I recall. Then decided to see what the 1500 would yield.

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/106...#entry22912890

soulicious

I've added a screenshot in my gallery.

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...og-screenshot/


Is it possible to log your MAP volts?

rmerchant3

I know of at least 3, thus my frustration

I've added a screenshot in my gallery.

https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/gallery/i...og-screenshot/


Is it possible to log your MAP volts?
[/quote]

Your load looks like mine when I run no air filter and pipe. I can log the map voltage on a pull. What are you trying to see with that? Isn't "engine load" based off of MAP voltage and converted into a PSI number?

soulicious

BTW, my plotting is set to 250ms samples/sec (AEM EMSv1). Yeah, you're right, I was just curious what it's logging. I have a hard time believing that you are surging. Is your VTEC solenoid hooked up or working properly? I would just go partially back to stock to check that your car functions as expected.

rmerchant3

Yeah it is working as it should. When I lower VTEC to 3300 it seems to help some. The fluctuation still appears though. This is a shot of my latest log with the VTEC at 3300 and essentially a 3.2 pulley. I'll try to get one tonight with MAP volts if I have time. I have to try a few more things before I load it on the trailer to get ready for the tune tomorrow.

62.5 samples/sec

s2000Junky

You guys got me thinking. Just tossing this out there, but any chance the Map voltage could be off, or not scaled correctly between vac/boost plots? I don't know how your EMS system is set up or what your even tuning with, but when I was tuning with E manage Ultimate on my set up, I was still retaining factory ECU of course and had to set map clamp voltage bellow 2.85v ( usually 2.75) or I would get irregular ignition break up, which may or may not be what your experiencing, rather then surge.

rmerchant3

Do you think the ignition breaking up or incomplete combustion would be enough to cause the boost to jump around like that?