Sakebomb Garage Wilwood Track-Day Brake System Review
03-20-2017, 05:16 PM
#41
Its hard to tell from the angle in the video but I don't believe that is the same caliper that we use. It's important to note that it is very easy to achieve massive line pressures while stationary as there is no deccel feedback to judge with. Best thing to do would be slowly apply until the runout point to be at least somewhat consistent without having to instrument each car with pressure taps.
If someone is local to Santa Clara CA and has a stoptech trophy or standard kit we would be interested in collecting this data on stock calipers vs stoptech, spoon, wilwood, AP racing and a new product we are currently developing.
If someone is local to Santa Clara CA and has a stoptech trophy or standard kit we would be interested in collecting this data on stock calipers vs stoptech, spoon, wilwood, AP racing and a new product we are currently developing.
03-21-2017, 06:41 AM
#42
Registered User
Absolutely. Ill do it this weekend. I dont have the meter to test the deflection but Ill take video of what the caliper does. Hell, Ill take video of both calipers doing it back to back. Also, that doesnt look like a FSL caliper in the video.
03-25-2017, 01:27 PM
#44
Registered User
So I had the chance today to go out and look at the caliper deflection between the SBG Wilwood Superlite caliper and the Stoptech Trophy caliper. Let me just preface the videos by saying they dont capture the movements very well. Its noticeable in person as the eyes can use the caliper surroundings as reference easier than through the lens of a shaky phone camera. The Stoptech caliper deflection is very very minuscule. If I had to say it would be around .5mm. The Wilwood caliper however is more noticeable but its only about 1mm at peak. Ill link the videos again, they are hard to see the full movement particularly the ST's. And regarding the point in the pedal travel they start to deflect, its towards the bottom when you feel the resistance of the pad and rotor that they deflect.
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yessamgerg (03-26-2017)
03-27-2017, 10:04 AM
#45
Nice! Thanks for the vids. I could clearly see the movement on the Willwoods, which looked maybe closer to 2 mm to me. I honestly couldn't see anything on the Stoptechs, so must be pretty minimal. Wonder how the base ST40 caliper does against the str40/Trophy.
06-02-2017, 03:43 PM
#46
So, my buddy with the ~300 whp FD RX7 (on RS3s) and Sakebomb Wilwood kit went to VIR with me. Last time he was there with his stock brakes (same DTC-60 pads) he had pretty bad brake shuddering. This time around the brakes perform well and were consistent throughout the session (25-30 minutes). He did mention that he did have some pad knockback and asked if I was experiencing the same thing. I couldn't really notice any with my Stoptech brakes. I think he was saying it was the worse after the uphill esses and he even started tapping the brake pedal with his left foot before the next braking zone.
Not sure what was the root cause since both Stoptech and Wilwood calipers do not have ant-knockback springs. It could be something unrelated to the brakes like wheel bearings? Not sure.
He also was starting to see the usual micro-cracks in the rotor whereas my Stoptech rotors have a barely any microcracking. Again though, his application (300 whp FD) is more demanding than mine (200 whp S2000) so not really an apples to apples comparison.
Not sure what was the root cause since both Stoptech and Wilwood calipers do not have ant-knockback springs. It could be something unrelated to the brakes like wheel bearings? Not sure.
He also was starting to see the usual micro-cracks in the rotor whereas my Stoptech rotors have a barely any microcracking. Again though, his application (300 whp FD) is more demanding than mine (200 whp S2000) so not really an apples to apples comparison.
Yes more brake use (ie higher power cars) will result in more micro-cracking. AP discs for instance will microcrack as well... they're just more resilient in general vs the Stoptech or standard rotors. Luckily the floating AP Racing 325x32 disc is directly compatible to swap with the discs that come with the Wilwood rotors at any time, so you can incrementally upgrade
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE > Click here to contact Us
Check some of our most popular products for the S2000:
- Ohlins DFV Billet Lower Mount
- Rear BBK RX-8 Caliper Conversion
- Front BBK AP Competition
- Setrab Oil Cooler Kit
SAKEBOMB GARAGE > Click here to contact Us
Check some of our most popular products for the S2000:
- Ohlins DFV Billet Lower Mount
- Rear BBK RX-8 Caliper Conversion
- Front BBK AP Competition
- Setrab Oil Cooler Kit
06-02-2017, 03:48 PM
#47
So I had the chance today to go out and look at the caliper deflection between the SBG Wilwood Superlite caliper and the Stoptech Trophy caliper. Let me just preface the videos by saying they dont capture the movements very well. Its noticeable in person as the eyes can use the caliper surroundings as reference easier than through the lens of a shaky phone camera. The Stoptech caliper deflection is very very minuscule. If I had to say it would be around .5mm. The Wilwood caliper however is more noticeable but its only about 1mm at peak. Ill link the videos again, they are hard to see the full movement particularly the ST's. And regarding the point in the pedal travel they start to deflect, its towards the bottom when you feel the resistance of the pad and rotor that they deflect.
https://vimeo.com/210072750
https://vimeo.com/210072733
https://vimeo.com/210072750
https://vimeo.com/210072733
We've got calipers that have virtually zero flex available... if you want a brake kit with zero flex calipers they are absolutely available, but you've got to be willing to pay 3x the price. If you want it we've got it, but do you NEED a zero-flex caliper is the real question.Remember our TrackDay BBK was designed to balance cost, performance, and significantly reduce component wear while minimizing operating costs and replacement component costs. Cheap 20mm thick pad options, 4# ultra-light weight calipers, large 325mm rotors and massive cooling, affordable replacement rings, with the option to upgrade to AP discs later... it's still a fantastic bang for buck price, and we haven't seen another brake kit that stacks up in all of those departments. If you've got more of a budget, we offer our SakeBomb Garage Competition Brake Kit options as well.[/SPOILER]
__________________
SAKEBOMB GARAGE > Click here to contact Us
Check some of our most popular products for the S2000:
- Ohlins DFV Billet Lower Mount
- Rear BBK RX-8 Caliper Conversion
- Front BBK AP Competition
- Setrab Oil Cooler Kit
SAKEBOMB GARAGE > Click here to contact Us
Check some of our most popular products for the S2000:
- Ohlins DFV Billet Lower Mount
- Rear BBK RX-8 Caliper Conversion
- Front BBK AP Competition
- Setrab Oil Cooler Kit
Last edited by SakeBomb Garage; 06-02-2017 at 04:03 PM.
06-04-2017, 07:36 PM
#48
Fantastic job on this write up, well accept those pics. ;-)
Lots of great information here. I would like to stress most of what you mentioned really is only for light track use many of those would do fine but here are a few of the key items.
1.) True floating rotor not just (2) piece
2.) Natural or Plated calipers not powder coated
3.) Titanium or Vented caliper pistons
4.) Anti-knock back springs
5.) Availibility to caliper seals
6.) Pad selection from various manufactures
7.) Mounting system to keep caliper to rotor parallel under extreme conditions
8.) Pad change out ease
My suggestions would be to use the stock parts as long as possible with (2) piece rotors.
Next would be a competition setup with Urge being the only one I know that does not require custom parts for the front but the only competition systems for the rear have been custom and require removing the parking brake.
Lots of great information here. I would like to stress most of what you mentioned really is only for light track use many of those would do fine but here are a few of the key items.
1.) True floating rotor not just (2) piece
2.) Natural or Plated calipers not powder coated
3.) Titanium or Vented caliper pistons
4.) Anti-knock back springs
5.) Availibility to caliper seals
6.) Pad selection from various manufactures
7.) Mounting system to keep caliper to rotor parallel under extreme conditions
8.) Pad change out ease
My suggestions would be to use the stock parts as long as possible with (2) piece rotors.
Next would be a competition setup with Urge being the only one I know that does not require custom parts for the front but the only competition systems for the rear have been custom and require removing the parking brake.
06-05-2017, 07:31 AM
#49
Registered User
Yes calipers WILL flex during use (all calipers do), however you are inducing WAY more force than you ever could generate without the wheels locking up. In a single brake apply the piston pressure is MUCH MUCH less... total caliper flex is not the end all be all for a brake kit. How much do they flex during a 1G stop? Very very little. For a 4lb caliper, and at this price point they're fantastic. If you press the brake pedal hard enough you'll also see the AP Racing CP8350 caliper flex as well. Comparing caliper flex at extreme pressures that would lock your wheels 5x over is not a useful test as your wheels would lock way before the caliper starts flexing We've got calipers that have virtually zero flex available... if you want a brake kit with zero flex calipers they are absolutely available, but you've got to be willing to pay 3x the price. If you want it we've got it, but do you NEED a zero-flex caliper is the real question.
Remember our TrackDay BBK was designed to balance cost, performance, and significantly reduce component wear while minimizing operating costs and replacement component costs. Cheap 20mm thick pad options, 4# ultra-light weight calipers, large 325mm rotors and massive cooling, affordable replacement rings, with the option to upgrade to AP discs later... it's still a fantastic bang for buck price, and we haven't seen another brake kit that stacks up in all of those departments. If you've got more of a budget, we offer our SakeBomb Garage Competition Brake Kit options as well.[/SPOILER]
We've got calipers that have virtually zero flex available... if you want a brake kit with zero flex calipers they are absolutely available, but you've got to be willing to pay 3x the price. If you want it we've got it, but do you NEED a zero-flex caliper is the real question.Remember our TrackDay BBK was designed to balance cost, performance, and significantly reduce component wear while minimizing operating costs and replacement component costs. Cheap 20mm thick pad options, 4# ultra-light weight calipers, large 325mm rotors and massive cooling, affordable replacement rings, with the option to upgrade to AP discs later... it's still a fantastic bang for buck price, and we haven't seen another brake kit that stacks up in all of those departments. If you've got more of a budget, we offer our SakeBomb Garage Competition Brake Kit options as well.[/SPOILER]
