AP2 totalled? Valuation?
01-30-2017, 09:06 PM
#11
Hi, all
Taking the average of trade-in and retail values for Blackbook, NADA, Edmunds, and KBB and then averaging that yields $16,774. In Virginia, a car is totaled when repairs exceed 75% of value - $12,580. I don't know much, but the following are toast: the door and rear quarter panel, the whole right rear suspension, and the differential (oil under the car). We haven't even addressed structure (frame) yet ... or paint. Under $13k in the big city? Seems unlikely.
No, it's actually better if it's cut up for parts. It would always be suspect, always a wrecked car.
As to what this feels like, it's evolving. The spin was a complete "Oh, Shit" moment. The next ten seconds were terrifying. I couldn't breath (wind knocked out of me) and being disoriented on any part of an urban, six lane Interstate highway is VERY NOT GOOD.
That feeling soon gave way to being the once trusted steward of something beautiful, but which I'd just betrayed. If that sounds dumb, it's because the S2000 is near the low point in it's evolution. In 10 or 20 years it will be very different because it is the bridge between two irreconcilable worlds. It has as much character as the classic 50s and 60s sports cars designed with more intuition than mathematics, perpetually leaking oil, needing carb syncing (and God knows what else) on a weekly basis. But it also has at least as much precision, engineering achievement, and reliability as the automated self-driving appliances arriving soon in your neighborhood.
Yeah, you know the business case for building another car like this won't ever make sense again. High revving normally aspirated engines, manual transmissions, and cars you DRIVE rather than just ride in are endangered. The monstrous new NSX shows where we're going, and even as a high tech nerd I want to barf.
But I dunno if I'll get another S2000. It's luster hasn't dimmed ... nor has my enjoyment of driving (my beater Accord is still ..... almost fun) ... and I'm too old and stubborn to finally learn how to drive an automatic (hah!). But, a good S2000 is not a fungible commodity. Even more so because mine had a special significance. At 53, with professional success and a measure of financial comfort I finally bought something beautiful, extroverted, and flashy, that didn't make sense. I bought it because life is short and I DID need the message I got every time I saw it - that I can choose a mentality of abundance instead of insecurity. No shit, it took me 53 freaking years to do that. Yeah, I crossed my personal Rubicon when I bought this car - like Julius, no going back. Ever. And as slick shifting, high revving, curvaceous red sex it served that purpose very well ...
Rest in Peace, my friend, you are gone but not forgotten.
Taking the average of trade-in and retail values for Blackbook, NADA, Edmunds, and KBB and then averaging that yields $16,774. In Virginia, a car is totaled when repairs exceed 75% of value - $12,580. I don't know much, but the following are toast: the door and rear quarter panel, the whole right rear suspension, and the differential (oil under the car). We haven't even addressed structure (frame) yet ... or paint. Under $13k in the big city? Seems unlikely.
No, it's actually better if it's cut up for parts. It would always be suspect, always a wrecked car.
As to what this feels like, it's evolving. The spin was a complete "Oh, Shit" moment. The next ten seconds were terrifying. I couldn't breath (wind knocked out of me) and being disoriented on any part of an urban, six lane Interstate highway is VERY NOT GOOD.
That feeling soon gave way to being the once trusted steward of something beautiful, but which I'd just betrayed. If that sounds dumb, it's because the S2000 is near the low point in it's evolution. In 10 or 20 years it will be very different because it is the bridge between two irreconcilable worlds. It has as much character as the classic 50s and 60s sports cars designed with more intuition than mathematics, perpetually leaking oil, needing carb syncing (and God knows what else) on a weekly basis. But it also has at least as much precision, engineering achievement, and reliability as the automated self-driving appliances arriving soon in your neighborhood.
Yeah, you know the business case for building another car like this won't ever make sense again. High revving normally aspirated engines, manual transmissions, and cars you DRIVE rather than just ride in are endangered. The monstrous new NSX shows where we're going, and even as a high tech nerd I want to barf.
But I dunno if I'll get another S2000. It's luster hasn't dimmed ... nor has my enjoyment of driving (my beater Accord is still ..... almost fun) ... and I'm too old and stubborn to finally learn how to drive an automatic (hah!). But, a good S2000 is not a fungible commodity. Even more so because mine had a special significance. At 53, with professional success and a measure of financial comfort I finally bought something beautiful, extroverted, and flashy, that didn't make sense. I bought it because life is short and I DID need the message I got every time I saw it - that I can choose a mentality of abundance instead of insecurity. No shit, it took me 53 freaking years to do that. Yeah, I crossed my personal Rubicon when I bought this car - like Julius, no going back. Ever. And as slick shifting, high revving, curvaceous red sex it served that purpose very well ...
Rest in Peace, my friend, you are gone but not forgotten.
Last edited by RocketRider; 01-30-2017 at 10:05 PM.
01-31-2017, 02:37 AM
#12
Bummer.
01-31-2017, 09:02 AM
#13
That is more than $13k in damage, no matter what shop or region.
Get another S. But get an '06+ with VSA. You can turn it off at the touch of a button when you want to, but its there to save you from yourself when you just aren't on game 100% (within limits of course).
I'm 52, and when I bought mine I made sure to get one with VSA, as I use it as a 3 season dd. I knew there would be times I would be driving home fatigued, preoccupied, just not 100% on game. I realized with a car like this, things can get out of control real fast if you aren't in driving mode, and are just driving. I wanted VSA to be there for those times.
Yes, you still have to drive like a sane person, but I imagine VSA would have saved this incident from being the S ending result it turned out to be.
Get another S. But get an '06+ with VSA. You can turn it off at the touch of a button when you want to, but its there to save you from yourself when you just aren't on game 100% (within limits of course).
I'm 52, and when I bought mine I made sure to get one with VSA, as I use it as a 3 season dd. I knew there would be times I would be driving home fatigued, preoccupied, just not 100% on game. I realized with a car like this, things can get out of control real fast if you aren't in driving mode, and are just driving. I wanted VSA to be there for those times.
Yes, you still have to drive like a sane person, but I imagine VSA would have saved this incident from being the S ending result it turned out to be.
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RocketRider (01-31-2017)
01-31-2017, 01:13 PM
#14
Car Analogy, I was thinking that might be a solution. How aggressive is VSA? Does it intrude in relatively safe situations or wait until you're on the verge of losing it? Put another way, will the back still step out a controllable amount under power? Whatever the answer, VSA does sound like the cure for worry about trashing another, making it possible to relax and enjoy regardless of whether it's ever triggered.
Met with the adjuster today and she declared it totaled by two different analysis methods. Back of the envelope, she easily tallied $10k of visible damage (outside and underneath) and is highly confident substantially more would be found during disassembly and precise measurements. She pointed out something that had disturbed me at the accident scene - a missing paint fleck near the opposite (driver's) door. (photo) and I noted that the driver's door is also in a slightly different plane than the body (photo). The car is bent.
You all know method 1: repair is very close to or exceeds 75% of pre-crash value. Method 2 asks if salvage value + repair cost is more than pre-crash value. If not, the cost to the insurance co. is lower by declaring it a total loss. Her rough salvage value benchmark (not based on my car) is $4800, which is not surprising at 41,000 miles and a clean engine compartment (photo). That's what a salvage yard would pay, not the revenue they'd eventually get from the car.
Here's the real surprise, though - USAA's first offer is $18,483 + sales tax - my deductible. I'm inclined to take it - seems fair, hassle free, and I dunno where to get actual sale prices. And I'm guessing after a month's cooling off period, I'll start looking for another. Low mileage and VSA could take a while. I only hope its the fastest color - red. :-)
Met with the adjuster today and she declared it totaled by two different analysis methods. Back of the envelope, she easily tallied $10k of visible damage (outside and underneath) and is highly confident substantially more would be found during disassembly and precise measurements. She pointed out something that had disturbed me at the accident scene - a missing paint fleck near the opposite (driver's) door. (photo) and I noted that the driver's door is also in a slightly different plane than the body (photo). The car is bent.
You all know method 1: repair is very close to or exceeds 75% of pre-crash value. Method 2 asks if salvage value + repair cost is more than pre-crash value. If not, the cost to the insurance co. is lower by declaring it a total loss. Her rough salvage value benchmark (not based on my car) is $4800, which is not surprising at 41,000 miles and a clean engine compartment (photo). That's what a salvage yard would pay, not the revenue they'd eventually get from the car.
Here's the real surprise, though - USAA's first offer is $18,483 + sales tax - my deductible. I'm inclined to take it - seems fair, hassle free, and I dunno where to get actual sale prices. And I'm guessing after a month's cooling off period, I'll start looking for another. Low mileage and VSA could take a while. I only hope its the fastest color - red. :-)
01-31-2017, 01:31 PM
#15
You need to buy that salvage car back and part it out. Seats, engine trans, all worth a lot for that low mileage. Then you have some body parts that can be sold. Headlights, lots of high dollar stuff that is easy to sell.
The VSA kicks in later than most cars. It lets you get a little bit loose. But not a lot. I can get it to kick in at low speeds if I'm really flinging the car around aggressively. But normal driving, even performance driving, if it kicks in you're typically very happy it did so.
If you are trying to hang the tail out, then yeah, it'll cut your fun before it starts. But then you push the off button.
The VSA kicks in later than most cars. It lets you get a little bit loose. But not a lot. I can get it to kick in at low speeds if I'm really flinging the car around aggressively. But normal driving, even performance driving, if it kicks in you're typically very happy it did so.
If you are trying to hang the tail out, then yeah, it'll cut your fun before it starts. But then you push the off button.
01-31-2017, 01:59 PM
#16
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First, Glad to hear your OK.
A couple more points about the VSA.
It does not annoyingly beep at you when it kicks in, Just flashes a light on the dash. Also, on a hard 1-2 shift it will chirp the tires and not cut power to the engine. I drove a friend's G35 that if you shifted hard enough to chirp the tires it would beep and cut engine power for (what seemed like) an absurd amount of time.
My S has been a year round DD for 2 years and the VSA actually works surprisingly well for the ice we occasionally get in Texas. I would turn it off at a stop and just spin the tires, no throttle, just slowly releasing the clutch. Turn it on, it would flash, do its thing and get me rolling. Who know get one with VSA and some winter tires and you could make it a year round daily.
A couple more points about the VSA.
It does not annoyingly beep at you when it kicks in, Just flashes a light on the dash. Also, on a hard 1-2 shift it will chirp the tires and not cut power to the engine. I drove a friend's G35 that if you shifted hard enough to chirp the tires it would beep and cut engine power for (what seemed like) an absurd amount of time.
My S has been a year round DD for 2 years and the VSA actually works surprisingly well for the ice we occasionally get in Texas. I would turn it off at a stop and just spin the tires, no throttle, just slowly releasing the clutch. Turn it on, it would flash, do its thing and get me rolling. Who know get one with VSA and some winter tires and you could make it a year round daily.
01-31-2017, 10:00 PM
#17
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I have USAA; glad to hear they are taking care of you. USAA does not provide an agreed on pre-fixed value and I have been doing a little homework to see if I should perhaps go with Hagerty or someone similar.
That door paint fleck on the driver door is interesting combined with the out of square door in the frame. I am guessing that during the impact, the car flexed enough that the door edge contacted the aft frame making the paint fleck as it did. Your additional pictures paint a picture of everything getting shifted around. Quite an impact. BTW did you head snap at all or cause you to shift in the seat much?
If you do go the "purchase the salvage" let us know what it goes for.
Edit for VSA comment. I have an 09, stock, and the VSA has engaged a number of times. A few occasions I was surprised how quickly and effectively it got me out of trouble. Damp road, a little too much power on a turn and the rear starts to break loose. As fast as it engages, it returns to standby. One "panic" hard over turn at speed with max braking (went off road) to avoid a lunatic careening from the right, I am convinced it helped me keep the car from an impact. We were just inches apart when the dust settled. I have it on my (Honda) Acura MDX that has engaged in heavy snow clutter on the freeway. Kept the pointy end pointed in the direction I wanted. Honda makes a good VSA IMHO.
That door paint fleck on the driver door is interesting combined with the out of square door in the frame. I am guessing that during the impact, the car flexed enough that the door edge contacted the aft frame making the paint fleck as it did. Your additional pictures paint a picture of everything getting shifted around. Quite an impact. BTW did you head snap at all or cause you to shift in the seat much?
If you do go the "purchase the salvage" let us know what it goes for.
Edit for VSA comment. I have an 09, stock, and the VSA has engaged a number of times. A few occasions I was surprised how quickly and effectively it got me out of trouble. Damp road, a little too much power on a turn and the rear starts to break loose. As fast as it engages, it returns to standby. One "panic" hard over turn at speed with max braking (went off road) to avoid a lunatic careening from the right, I am convinced it helped me keep the car from an impact. We were just inches apart when the dust settled. I have it on my (Honda) Acura MDX that has engaged in heavy snow clutter on the freeway. Kept the pointy end pointed in the direction I wanted. Honda makes a good VSA IMHO.
Last edited by cosmomiller; 01-31-2017 at 10:13 PM.
02-01-2017, 03:29 AM
#18
I don't know what happened to cause this loss of control but I will just say that thousands of drivers without any special skills drive their non VSA s2ks every day for years and years and never have an experience like this one. The addition of VSA would not cause me to purchase an 06 ap2 over and earlier model. There are other considerations that cause me to favor older models. Just one man's opinion. 
Last edited by rpg51; 02-01-2017 at 03:32 AM.
02-01-2017, 05:53 AM
#19
And my grandpa smoked every day of his life and lived to 100 and never got cancer, therefore I conclude that smoking isn't bad for your health.
This fallacious anecdote illustrates how absence of a negative result does not prove positive outcomes.
You don't need VSA until you do. Its like climbing without safety lines. One lapse in concentration, and its over. If you are going to use your car as a dd, which implies there will be moments when you are not going to be 100% on game, you are foolish to eschew such a useful safety feature.
Its one thing to take life and safety matters into your own hands, its quite another to brag about your abilities to do so, thereby implying others are somehow less than you if they don't do likewise.
This fallacious anecdote illustrates how absence of a negative result does not prove positive outcomes.
You don't need VSA until you do. Its like climbing without safety lines. One lapse in concentration, and its over. If you are going to use your car as a dd, which implies there will be moments when you are not going to be 100% on game, you are foolish to eschew such a useful safety feature.
Its one thing to take life and safety matters into your own hands, its quite another to brag about your abilities to do so, thereby implying others are somehow less than you if they don't do likewise.
02-01-2017, 09:23 AM
#20
Goodness, that was not my intent. If that is what came across from the text of my post I apologize.
