Southern Ontario S2000 Owners Southern Ontario S2000 Owners forum including Toronto, Kitchener/Waterloo, Hamilton and surrounding area

MoSport DDT/GP 2017

Old 08-22-2016, 07:18 AM
  #1  
Registered User

Thread Starter
 
LDubz735's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,315
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 16 Posts
Default MoSport DDT/GP 2017

Although DDT doesn't have an open lapping days, I thought I'd start a thread on this given other tracks have theirs and there are a lot of events there by various organizers.

Personally, I think this is the best track in Southern Ontario for the S. It's well paved and maintained, very technical, has various elevation changes, off-camber turns, and it's just damn fun to drive.

EDIT (Sep 12, 2016): Eh, what the heck, combined this to be a DDT/GP thread.

Last edited by LDubz735; 03-10-2017 at 10:32 AM.
Old 08-22-2016, 07:22 AM
  #2  
Registered User

Thread Starter
 
LDubz735's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,315
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Had a double header this past weekend.

Here's the "no kink" layout:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGew_dEntE8[/media]

Here's the layout with the kink - my preference:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogWfGrsJ4Gw[/media]

I came close to besting my RE-71R time of 1:43.3xx with my "lowly" RS3v2s, but it wasn't meant to be.
Old 08-22-2016, 07:28 AM
  #3  

 
myflys2k's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Middle of nowhere
Posts: 6,315
Received 33 Likes on 23 Posts
Default

I was there yesterday watching my buddy compete in the karts. Could hear the cars on DDT and thought... I can hear an s2000
Old 08-22-2016, 11:43 AM
  #4  

 
deanob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LDubz735
Had a double header this past weekend.

Here's the "no kink" layout:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGew_dEntE8[/media]

Here's the layout with the kink - my preference:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogWfGrsJ4Gw[/media]

I came so close to besting my RE-71R time with my "lowly" RS3v2s, but it wasn't meant to be.
You're really fast. Nice.
Old 08-22-2016, 02:42 PM
  #5  
Registered User

 
LemonJus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 487
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LDubz735
Here's the layout with the kink - my preference:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogWfGrsJ4Gw[/media]

I came so close to besting my RE-71R time with my "lowly" RS3v2s, but it wasn't meant to be.
Here's my stupidity of the day - couldn't match my previous best, I was dumb:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaUleyueCJ8[/media]


Observations:
Turn 1a/b/c
You actually go into 1a much MUCH hotter than me (92 vs 79) but I get on the gas right before I hit the curb on 1a. Sacrifice more entry speed for exit speed. You hit the curb at 81 vs my 78. The point of interest is that by 1b, I'm at 86 vs your 80 - again, this is due to me starting to gas from 1a throughout 1b and 1c whereas you are hitting the gas just before 1b. This is likely due to an overagressive entry which can mean one of two things: you are outside of your comfort zone of what your tires are doing (ie: your tires are holding, your stomach is not) OR your tires forced you to give up throttle or else you hit dirt. I am 80% sure it's the first.

By the time we get to 1c, I'm at 108 vs your 106 - again, sacrifice entry for exit. There is a LONG ass straight after turn 1, use your tune to your advantage!

Turn 2
Your entry braking zone and I are identical. It should not be given your suspension and tire advantage. I suggest braking later and practice more trail braking into this turn (one of the safest areas to do so). You seem to turn in a little early which scrubs off your entry speed - you entered at 104 vs my 94 - at apex, you are at 96 vs my 94. You likely still have more grip whereas I am clinging onto dear life. On the exit (the tall cone), you are at 107 vs my 99. The story doesn't end here though. Do NOT aim for that cone because I think that's what's causing you to stay 2-3 feet away from track edge. I actually aim for a section 10 feet beyond the cone and track right to the edge. That's where I am aiming for but I am also batshit crazy. Feel your tires out a little more and see if they can give you more apex grip to accelerate earlier. You should be able to carry that 10kmh speed advantage through the turn if not gain on me.

Turn 3 + 4
Good entry at 88 vs my 80. You seem to be taking full advantage of the tires on entry but you are late on the throttle compared to me. At the cone on 3, you drop to 71 vs my 65. At the apex between 3 and 4, you gain a TON on me at 79 vs my 63 but at 4's apex cone, you're at 95 vs my 90. Not sure what happened here given that it should've been a larger gap but keep in mind, overall, you're still much quicker in and out. Very nice work here!

Turn 5 + 6
Interesting attack here - you seem to turn in much earlier than I do even though both of us hit the entry cone at exactly 84. Your entry looked slightly hesitant - you enter, commit to gas and then lift off slightly before recommitting. At the apex, you're swooping in at 61 vs my 54 but at the mid section right cone, you get up to 70 vs my 65 and both of us at WOT. By the time we clear the apex cone on turn 6, you're at 91 vs my 88. We both chicken out and lift off (don't need to). I think your entry compromised your exit because by the time we exit at the rumble strips on the right, you're at 105 vs my 104. Need to correct entry and gun it all the way.

Turn 7 + 8
Again with the crazy entry speeds! 99 vs my 89 - gotta love those RS3s! I think you can go in quicker - at the apex, you drop to 86 vs my 82. Your tires should be able to hold 90-95 given that my PSS's in their new condition held around 87-91 when I pulled a 1:46.5 there. This is a very scary turn since it is off camber and you really don't want to ride the turtles on the exit too much (it's your grippiest side losing grip after all). By the end of the turtle strip at the cone, you're at 98 vs my 95 so you're gaining on me there which is perfect since you have tire grip and suspension. My suggestion is to turn in later into 7 and see how that feels. I never got the confidence that day to turn in later since my tires felt greasy and I was also playing around with my instructor's advice of turning early.

At the apex of turn 8, you're hooking up nicely and maintaining that speed advantage but I noticed a dangerous thing: you are modulating the lower part of the throttle (25-35%) right after the apex. The course is slightly uneven here and modulation plus your suspension travelling over this will make the car MUCH worse. You'll notice at the 3/4 length of the rumble strips, I'm damn near WOT to settle the car whereas you are at 25-30%. It's crazy but it works.

Turn 9 + 10 + 11
On turn 9 entry, we are actually fairly even - 106 vs my 104. But on turn 9 you absolutely REK me on entry - 106 vs 96! Things change dramatically on turn 10 however - I think your braking is not hard enough (fade perhaps?) and too abrupt maybe? I trail brake into this one and once my car angle is right, I'm actually on the gas slightly before I hit the apex. I am not sure if this is correct on my part though but in the end at the apex of turn 11, you're at 93 vs my 90. I think we both got this turn wrong. I think turn 10 is actually a neutral apex. Early apex means you're eating dirt on the right side before turn 11. Late apex means you make the travel to 11 awkward and tight meaning you either come out of 11 wide but likely less throttle. Neutral seems to let you link a straight line through both 10 and 11. By the time we hit the ingrown patch of weeds on the right side right before turn 12, I'm travelling at 129 vs your 126. Something to think about there.

Turn 12
You seemed to brake JUST before the weed patch and me just after but I still maintain good line entry in. Was there a reason why you went mid track into turn 12? You and I exit both at pretty much the same speed (80 for me, 79 for you) which means you compromised the turn.

Turn 13
We both hit it at pretty much same speed - 118 for you, 117 for me. I'm telling you, downshifting to 2nd for turn 12 is FANTASTIC. Also, I didn't have the balls not to hit turn 13 at WOT. You should be able to but be careful for unsettling the car on exit of 13.

Turn 14+15+16
Daaaaaamn those tires of mine! I trail braked too hard into this but given that you entered at 103 vs my 98, if I mastered trail braking into this with the PSS, it is likely possible to hit 14's apex cone at 95 for me and you probably mid to high 90s. This is pure hypothetical speak until we both go back out on RS3s. From here on it, I think you enter 15 too early making for a sloppy wide exit of it. Try to exit 14 slightly more to the right and only start turning into 15 a 1/4 way into the curb (I'd say turn in like 0.25s later of your video instead of what you actually do at 3:33). Doing this will give you more braking into 15 and makes the link from 15 to 16 one massive straight. The initial curb of turn 14 is now useless with you carrying this much speed into it.

Turn 17
No comment. This is spot on.

Turn 18a/b/c
No comment. Spot on.

Great job man! I can definitely agree that you can get 1:42 easily.
Old 08-22-2016, 03:12 PM
  #6  
Registered User

Thread Starter
 
LDubz735's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,315
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Soooo....TLDR, I'm spot on?!

Thanks for the analysis, definitely appreciate it. I feel there's lots of time left out there and the car's setup is more than capable.

If I had to summarize most of the feedback from yourself (and others) is that I need to late apex a few more turns and progressively get on the throttle much earlier. I think sometimes I jam on the throttle and it unsettles the car, which causes me to hesitate a bit.

I definitely think I can hit 1:42s if I can put it all together.
Old 08-22-2016, 03:28 PM
  #7  
Registered User

Thread Starter
 
LDubz735's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,315
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by LemonJus
Observations:
Turn 1a/b/c
You actually go into 1a much MUCH hotter than me (92 vs 79) but I get on the gas right before I hit the curb on 1a. Sacrifice more entry speed for exit speed. You hit the curb at 81 vs my 78. The point of interest is that by 1b, I'm at 86 vs your 80 - again, this is due to me starting to gas from 1a throughout 1b and 1c whereas you are hitting the gas just before 1b. This is likely due to an overagressive entry which can mean one of two things: you are outside of your comfort zone of what your tires are doing (ie: your tires are holding, your stomach is not) OR your tires forced you to give up throttle or else you hit dirt. I am 80% sure it's the first.

By the time we get to 1c, I'm at 108 vs your 106 - again, sacrifice entry for exit. There is a LONG ass straight after turn 1, use your tune to your advantage!

--> Yeah, I was turning in too early for this one all day long, for some reason, I have a lot difficulty gauging the braking zone and turn-in point coming up that straight. Need to get my eyes checked.

Turn 2
Your entry braking zone and I are identical. It should not be given your suspension and tire advantage. I suggest braking later and practice more trail braking into this turn (one of the safest areas to do so). You seem to turn in a little early which scrubs off your entry speed - you entered at 104 vs my 94 - at apex, you are at 96 vs my 94. You likely still have more grip whereas I am clinging onto dear life. On the exit (the tall cone), you are at 107 vs my 99. The story doesn't end here though. Do NOT aim for that cone because I think that's what's causing you to stay 2-3 feet away from track edge. I actually aim for a section 10 feet beyond the cone and track right to the edge. That's where I am aiming for but I am also batshit crazy. Feel your tires out a little more and see if they can give you more apex grip to accelerate earlier. You should be able to carry that 10kmh speed advantage through the turn if not gain on me.

--> The bain of my existence. I've +/- trail braking +/- wide vs shallow entry and I don't think I've ever felt like I nailed it.

Turn 3 + 4
Good entry at 88 vs my 80. You seem to be taking full advantage of the tires on entry but you are late on the throttle compared to me. At the cone on 3, you drop to 71 vs my 65. At the apex between 3 and 4, you gain a TON on me at 79 vs my 63 but at 4's apex cone, you're at 95 vs my 90. Not sure what happened here given that it should've been a larger gap but keep in mind, overall, you're still much quicker in and out. Very nice work here!

--> Need more throttle right after the apex, but you can see the car holds WOT throughout.

Turn 5 + 6
Interesting attack here - you seem to turn in much earlier than I do even though both of us hit the entry cone at exactly 84. Your entry looked slightly hesitant - you enter, commit to gas and then lift off slightly before recommitting. At the apex, you're swooping in at 61 vs my 54 but at the mid section right cone, you get up to 70 vs my 65 and both of us at WOT. By the time we clear the apex cone on turn 6, you're at 91 vs my 88. We both chicken out and lift off (don't need to). I think your entry compromised your exit because by the time we exit at the rumble strips on the right, you're at 105 vs my 104. Need to correct entry and gun it all the way.

--> So I think I nail 5 about a third of the time. 1/3 I brake too late and overshoot the apex, which leads me to brake too early the next lap, and then I end up turning in too early and scrubbing off way too much speed. When I do get it right, it feels like you can fly through this corner. I also think that I should slightly unwind the wheel a teeny bit, bc maintaining the same position causes me to apex to early for turn 6. I think you can exit 6 before the rumble strip and pick up some serious speed.

Turn 7 + 8
Again with the crazy entry speeds! 99 vs my 89 - gotta love those RS3s! I think you can go in quicker - at the apex, you drop to 86 vs my 82. Your tires should be able to hold 90-95 given that my PSS's in their new condition held around 87-91 when I pulled a 1:46.5 there. This is a very scary turn since it is off camber and you really don't want to ride the turtles on the exit too much (it's your grippiest side losing grip after all). By the end of the turtle strip at the cone, you're at 98 vs my 95 so you're gaining on me there which is perfect since you have tire grip and suspension. My suggestion is to turn in later into 7 and see how that feels. I never got the confidence that day to turn in later since my tires felt greasy and I was also playing around with my instructor's advice of turning early.

At the apex of turn 8, you're hooking up nicely and maintaining that speed advantage but I noticed a dangerous thing: you are modulating the lower part of the throttle (25-35%) right after the apex. The course is slightly uneven here and modulation plus your suspension travelling over this will make the car MUCH worse. You'll notice at the 3/4 length of the rumble strips, I'm damn near WOT to settle the car whereas you are at 25-30%. It's crazy but it works.

--> Need more balls. But also, my entry into both corners are too shallow, which means that I'm looking at the wrong exit point which ends up pointing into the grass. I think that's what bothers me more than the off camber feeling.

Turn 9 + 10 + 11
On turn 9 entry, we are actually fairly even - 106 vs my 104. But on turn 9 you absolutely REK me on entry - 106 vs 96! Things change dramatically on turn 10 however - I think your braking is not hard enough (fade perhaps?) and too abrupt maybe? I trail brake into this one and once my car angle is right, I'm actually on the gas slightly before I hit the apex. I am not sure if this is correct on my part though but in the end at the apex of turn 11, you're at 93 vs my 90. I think we both got this turn wrong. I think turn 10 is actually a neutral apex. Early apex means you're eating dirt on the right side before turn 11. Late apex means you make the travel to 11 awkward and tight meaning you either come out of 11 wide but likely less throttle. Neutral seems to let you link a straight line through both 10 and 11. By the time we hit the ingrown patch of weeds on the right side right before turn 12, I'm travelling at 129 vs your 126. Something to think about there.

--> I felt that I nailed his better in my first video. There are a bunch of things I can do better including starting out more track right on 9. I agree w/ 10 being a neutral-to-late apex, bc once you're past it, you should be able to WOT it to 12.

Turn 12
You seemed to brake JUST before the weed patch and me just after but I still maintain good line entry in. Was there a reason why you went mid track into turn 12? You and I exit both at pretty much the same speed (80 for me, 79 for you) which means you compromised the turn.

--> Trying different lines, but I think I overbrake and don't get on the throttle early enough. I agree you can start WOT-ing it before the "cone/apex" as you're going up the hill.

Turn 13
We both hit it at pretty much same speed - 118 for you, 117 for me. I'm telling you, downshifting to 2nd for turn 12 is FANTASTIC. Also, I didn't have the balls not to hit turn 13 at WOT. You should be able to but be careful for unsettling the car on exit of 13.

--> Need to get on the throttle once I've set my car.

Turn 14+15+16
Daaaaaamn those tires of mine! I trail braked too hard into this but given that you entered at 103 vs my 98, if I mastered trail braking into this with the PSS, it is likely possible to hit 14's apex cone at 95 for me and you probably mid to high 90s. This is pure hypothetical speak until we both go back out on RS3s. From here on it, I think you enter 15 too early making for a sloppy wide exit of it. Try to exit 14 slightly more to the right and only start turning into 15 a 1/4 way into the curb (I'd say turn in like 0.25s later of your video instead of what you actually do at 3:33). Doing this will give you more braking into 15 and makes the link from 15 to 16 one massive straight. The initial curb of turn 14 is now useless with you carrying this much speed into it.

--> I'm going to try a different line next time and actually exit 14 more track left and hug the curb for 15. The reason is that I think you can get more entry speed into 14 and then maximize the hill for braking. I know a lot of people say you should exit more track centre, but It think it's worth trying this line instead.

Turn 17
No comment. This is spot on.

--> I think you should WOT it. The divot doesn't unsettle the car that much.

Turn 18a/b/c
No comment. Spot on.

--> I still think I can carry more speed through this and WOT it earlier out of 18c. If you nail this, then you're setting yourself up for a quick next lap.


Great job man! I can definitely agree that you can get 1:42 easily.
Old 08-22-2016, 04:46 PM
  #8  

 
starchland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,261
Received 89 Likes on 80 Posts
Default

What are both your setups ?
Old 08-22-2016, 04:51 PM
  #9  
Registered User

 
LemonJus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 487
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by starchland
What are both your setups ?
I'm stock running on Michelin Pilot Super Sports 215/45/17 front and 245/40/17 rear. Carbotech XP10s all around.

I believe LDubz has a tune, KW v3 coilovers, Hankook Ventus RS3 225/45/17 front and 255/45/17 rear. DTC60 pads all around if I am correct.
Old 08-23-2016, 01:58 PM
  #10  
Member
Spotter

 
kryptonite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Somerville, MA
Posts: 8,212
Received 277 Likes on 232 Posts
Default

Would love to test out Mosport one of these days . Looks like a fun track

Quick Reply: MoSport DDT/GP 2017



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 06:45 AM.