How *should* the brake pedal feel?
08-26-2016, 07:51 PM
#71
Registered User
Fantastic thread!
At least for a 2006+ ABS+VSA version, I can report that the Honda HDS tool lets a technician activate each ABS wheel independently.
- How should this be used to ensure the best bleed?
- Apply pedal pressure simultaneously with ABS actuation via software?
- Or bleed twice before and after actuation?
However, still not sure what is happening inside the ABS unit when each wheel is activated. Maybe a proper ABS bleed needs a very specific sequence of solenoid actuation and procedure to do it correctly? I know there are several solenoids in there so not sure if just using even the HDS tool would be correct.
*Same tool also allows an actuation test for the VSA system which requires you to free spin each wheel so the solenoids can stop it. Maybe these newer ABS/VSA units are even more complex/troublesome?
There is a load apportioning valve on the rear axle. Reduces front brake bias as the load increases and it's controlled by a link to a wishbone. These days, they are often electronic, which is a PIA.
What usually happens if one jacks the car up (the valve closes off) and then one wonders why one can only get the merest weep out of the rear nipples, whereas one can get a good squirt out of the front ones. Clearly, you're not gonna bleed anything at the back like that, in view of the smaller M/C bore for the rear part and the long pipes...
First time I'm reading about this as well. Thanks for mentioning it!
I too have noticed this pathetic weep out of the rears on occasion but thought maybe I just didn't have the nipple open more. Pedal is also noticeably harder to push during this.
At least for a 2006+ ABS+VSA version, I can report that the Honda HDS tool lets a technician activate each ABS wheel independently.
- How should this be used to ensure the best bleed?
- Apply pedal pressure simultaneously with ABS actuation via software?
- Or bleed twice before and after actuation?
However, still not sure what is happening inside the ABS unit when each wheel is activated. Maybe a proper ABS bleed needs a very specific sequence of solenoid actuation and procedure to do it correctly? I know there are several solenoids in there so not sure if just using even the HDS tool would be correct.
*Same tool also allows an actuation test for the VSA system which requires you to free spin each wheel so the solenoids can stop it. Maybe these newer ABS/VSA units are even more complex/troublesome?
Originally Posted by chrispayze' timestamp='1471806416' post='24044383
Thanks all, some stuff I've tried, some I haven't. I'll look into Rob Robinette's method.
Nick, what is the pressure limiter? Not something I've come across in my time under the bonnet.
Nick, what is the pressure limiter? Not something I've come across in my time under the bonnet.
What usually happens if one jacks the car up (the valve closes off) and then one wonders why one can only get the merest weep out of the rear nipples, whereas one can get a good squirt out of the front ones. Clearly, you're not gonna bleed anything at the back like that, in view of the smaller M/C bore for the rear part and the long pipes...
I too have noticed this pathetic weep out of the rears on occasion but thought maybe I just didn't have the nipple open more. Pedal is also noticeably harder to push during this.
08-26-2016, 10:10 PM
#72
Here's a useful picture. For a LHD car, so I'm not sure what is swapped around for a RHD car.
[attachment=98394::]
Attachment 98394
[attachment=98394::]
Attachment 98394
08-27-2016, 03:09 AM
#73
Fantastic thread!
At least for a 2006+ ABS+VSA version, I can report that the Honda HDS tool lets a technician activate each ABS wheel independently.
- How should this be used to ensure the best bleed?
- Apply pedal pressure simultaneously with ABS actuation via software?
- Or bleed twice before and after actuation?
However, still not sure what is happening inside the ABS unit when each wheel is activated. Maybe a proper ABS bleed needs a very specific sequence of solenoid actuation and procedure to do it correctly? I know there are several solenoids in there so not sure if just using even the HDS tool would be correct.
*Same tool also allows an actuation test for the VSA system which requires you to free spin each wheel so the solenoids can stop it. Maybe these newer ABS/VSA units are even more complex/troublesome?
There is a load apportioning valve on the rear axle. Reduces front brake bias as the load increases and it's controlled by a link to a wishbone. These days, they are often electronic, which is a PIA.
What usually happens if one jacks the car up (the valve closes off) and then one wonders why one can only get the merest weep out of the rear nipples, whereas one can get a good squirt out of the front ones. Clearly, you're not gonna bleed anything at the back like that, in view of the smaller M/C bore for the rear part and the long pipes...
At least for a 2006+ ABS+VSA version, I can report that the Honda HDS tool lets a technician activate each ABS wheel independently.
- How should this be used to ensure the best bleed?
- Apply pedal pressure simultaneously with ABS actuation via software?
- Or bleed twice before and after actuation?
However, still not sure what is happening inside the ABS unit when each wheel is activated. Maybe a proper ABS bleed needs a very specific sequence of solenoid actuation and procedure to do it correctly? I know there are several solenoids in there so not sure if just using even the HDS tool would be correct.
*Same tool also allows an actuation test for the VSA system which requires you to free spin each wheel so the solenoids can stop it. Maybe these newer ABS/VSA units are even more complex/troublesome?
Originally Posted by Nick Graves' timestamp='1471862752' post='24044702
[quote name='chrispayze' timestamp='1471806416' post='24044383']
Thanks all, some stuff I've tried, some I haven't. I'll look into Rob Robinette's method.
Nick, what is the pressure limiter? Not something I've come across in my time under the bonnet.
Thanks all, some stuff I've tried, some I haven't. I'll look into Rob Robinette's method.
Nick, what is the pressure limiter? Not something I've come across in my time under the bonnet.
What usually happens if one jacks the car up (the valve closes off) and then one wonders why one can only get the merest weep out of the rear nipples, whereas one can get a good squirt out of the front ones. Clearly, you're not gonna bleed anything at the back like that, in view of the smaller M/C bore for the rear part and the long pipes...
I too have noticed this pathetic weep out of the rears on occasion but thought maybe I just didn't have the nipple open more. Pedal is also noticeably harder to push during this.
[/quote]
You're welcome.
Just wish I'd thought of it earlier than I did...
08-27-2016, 03:13 AM
#74
Here's a useful picture. For a LHD car, so I'm not sure what is swapped around for a RHD car.
[attachment=98394::]
Attachment 98394
[attachment=98394::]
Attachment 98394
Good find.
The answer is, little of any significance.
Nicely demonstrates the chambers and NRVs, which one can feel pulsing fluid back to the 'upside' of the line, so that the pedal doesn't drop as the ABS blows off & pressurises via the Normally Closed side of the system.
03-21-2017, 04:02 AM
#75
at the videos of you using your hand to press the brake pedal.You've changed everything but the one thing you probably needed to change: the pads. Get something like Ferodos and it'll be much firmer.
I think I got air stuck in the ABS once but it was really horrible and sometimes needed to pump the pedal several times to get the brakes to work. Yours doesn't sound anything like that.
09-16-2023, 10:08 AM
#77
09-16-2023, 12:24 PM
#78
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
limenuke
S2000 Under The Hood
19
07-28-2018 01:04 PM
Moddiction
S2000 Under The Hood
1
08-31-2011 09:04 AM