s2000Junky

Oh ok, I must have missed the modded front fender part.

The primary meat and potatoes of setting the suspension up for a non stagger is to reduce the rear sway bar tension with either a ap2 sway or smaller Miata bar, wile increasing the front sway bar rate with something aftermarket. Secondarily, for track you will want to consider running a rear wing for added rear down force at speed, where the tendency for the car is to oversteer in normal circumstances, let alone this particular square tire modification.

A rear toe correction/bump steer kit is an excellent idea to help tame the rear of the car no matter what your tire stagger is, making its toe influence much more limited over stock through the suspension stroke, so the car behaves in a more predictable fashion, and then of course your static alignment settings will be important in helping to fine tune the cars traction and behavior.

B serious

He's just doing this for looks. I think he mentioned never wanting to track it.

I've been driving a non staggered MY00 AP1 with both stock bars for years and years now. On the street, on the track, etc. The car isn't just going to oversteer out of nowhere. I have never disconnected my rear bar.

People worry too much.

s2000Junky

Just depends on if you want more neutral balance. Everything good or bad happens in roughly the last 10% of the cars limit. If you never drive the car in that range, then sure, but just realize your not going to be setting any paces. A good performing car is well sorted, to be able to allow the driver to consistently handle the car at its limit with both front and rear letting go at the same time when asked. If you have a car that every time you touch its threshold wants the rear end to come around and kill you, then it makes it extremely tiresome to run lap after lap at the limit in a consistent way compared to a balanced car.

If you think a stock ap1 with non staggered tires is manageable on a road course, then frankly you arent driving the car fast enough.

B serious

lol. No...its quick enough. I think the philosophy that a non aero, non staggered AP1 is unstable is just closed minded. I've never tried disconnecting the bar. I've never needed to. The car's been on par or faster than any given other year S2000 with a similar setup. I may give it a shot next year and see what the buzz is. I'm happy with the car as it sits.

But...none of that matters for the OP's question. Why would you drive within 10% of the car's limit on the street, in a car whose priorities come with aesthetics, and a driver who is a self admitted n00b?

s2000Junky

Your right none of this probably matters to the OP, but it may to someone else who stumbles onto this thread, which will be here forever. I want to articulate this for people, and certainly if there is some kind of conflicting info. This isn't a philosophical debate nor about being closed minded or not, its about simple nuts and bolts reality of car set up. I own an 01, ive run it through its paces through 13 years of ownership and several set up revisions, lots of test and tune time for me to get a good bearing on this platform. A car that tends to be neutral or push at the limit of its adhesion level is surely a lot safer and easier to manage in any environment, especially the street, so surely thats valuable to someone.

Your S is fun and manageable up to 75-80% of its capability, which is fine for some that never care to experience what the cars full capabilities are, for the sake of rotating tires maybe, and thats fine since its also a street car, so there will be a compromise somewhere and to each their own. I just dont pretend its a great performing set up, because its not. The chassis accommodates more rubber in the back, and the ap1 suspension was tuned to manage that more effectively then a square set up, its also generally a better set up for a rwd car specifically when your wanting to maintain a balanced circle of traction ie accelerating, turning and braking, in any environment. If you want to improve the stability of this car over stock which there is some lack, then it also argues for wider rubber in the back as an integral part of that. If you like whats accomplished with traction by putting a 255 up front, do the right thing and step up to a 275-295 in the rear to maintain the cars balanced circle of traction and see how that feels managing in comparison - and watch your track times improve as well. The rear quarters accommodate 40mm more rubber then up front can, use it!

B serious

^Which tracks have you run with the car?

I've run the stock stagger. then a 225/255 stagger. Then a 225/265 stagger. A 255/265 stagger. The car went the fastest on a 255/255 and 255/265, if we're comparing the same tires. I just set another PB this year on 255/255.

I am not disagreeing that the car would likely be more driveable with sway bar mods. I've just never bothered with it because mine has been plenty quick and driveable.

I have videos of the car with different combinations on the same track. I went faster with non staggered tires. I switched to a non-stagger mid season...and went faster right away.

your results may differ, obviously.

I disagree that the car is undriveable within 9/10ths with the stock bars and non-staggered tires.

Unfortunately, I think we're well down the path of irrelevance with this thread. OP is gone and any of this "track" info is useless to someone who searches this thread with the same question as the OP.

The simple answer to the OP's question is that on the street...it doesn't matter. The best advice is to just not drive like a complete buffoon whether or not the car is staggered.

If you are reading this and are a total effing donkey (be honest with yourself), but you plan on playing Lewis Hamilton on your drive home no matter how many people tell you its a bad idea..and your self control is the only thing worse than your car control.....then yes...its safer to run a stagger.

s2000Junky

Of course you will be faster if you add 30mm more tire up front. Your adding grip to the car. If your a good driver, you will adapt. Not really relevant to the point I was making. Like I said, add 30mm more tire to the rear of your car now and watch your times go up again. The argument doesn't really solidify non stag is best, it only means its better than what you had before, for you.

My preferred local track is the 2.5 mile Ridge Motorsports park in WA state. Im pushing the lap record with a street tire Naturally Aspirated non wing S2000. I also run top down, because its more fun, even though about 1 sec slower. Its a fast track and technical track.

yokevlee

came across this while reading up on square vs staggered. i drive a CR w/ stock staggered, stock sways, stock aero and tein SRC (16k/16k springs i believe). i'm debating whether to go 255 square or stay staggered 215/255 with the goal of going fast while not compromising steering responsiveness. i have plenty of track experience and am comfortable with oversteer (in previous cars), since i'm new to s2000, would like to ask for your and B Serious' opinion on square vs staggered for my purpose and my set up. thanks!

s2000Junky

Your really not going to give up steering responsiveness as long as A. you pick a quality stiff multi ply sidewall constructed summer/extreme tire and B. which is just as crucial, is your properly size the rim width to the increase tire width you want to run if you feel you are lacking front grip. If you cram on a 245/40 on your stock 7" front wheel, your going to make compromises in responsiveness/precision steering. If you run that same size tire on a proper rim width for its section width ie 9" to 9.5" then you wont. You will also maximize the grip potential of that width tire. If you want to run a non stag 255 all around, then get a new set of 10" wide rims that accommodate the fender fitment. This is best case scenario to always aim for if possible when making changes in this arena. Fitment, cost, availability are always a curve ball.

yokevlee

so basically square 255 w/ 10" wheels is your recommendation? how is 9.5" for 255? will be using EP tires like ZII, rs3, re-11, ad08, ku36 etc. also, how about sticking w stock f/r CR sway bars? and any recommended damping set ups? thanks!