Understeer with 255mm rear tires?
08-24-2016, 08:24 PM
#12
When you look at the specs for the oem cr tires, Bridgestone RE070, 255 rears are 9.8" wide.
Meanwhile the RE050 originally on the normal ap2 S, in 245, are the exact same 9.8"!
So the CR rear tires don't appear to actually be any wider than the regular S, despite the tires numeric differences.
It seems like Honda wanted to keep the front to rear tire width balance of the ap2, and to do that with the tires used with the CR meant tires with 255 written on the side.
What this appears to mean is if you want to choose tires that mimick the CR widths, and the tires you are going to get are not RE070's, then you probably want 245 rears.
This would appear to negate the idea of using 215/255, for any tires other than 070's, unless you want to add more understeer.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
Meanwhile the RE050 originally on the normal ap2 S, in 245, are the exact same 9.8"!
So the CR rear tires don't appear to actually be any wider than the regular S, despite the tires numeric differences.
It seems like Honda wanted to keep the front to rear tire width balance of the ap2, and to do that with the tires used with the CR meant tires with 255 written on the side.
What this appears to mean is if you want to choose tires that mimick the CR widths, and the tires you are going to get are not RE070's, then you probably want 245 rears.
This would appear to negate the idea of using 215/255, for any tires other than 070's, unless you want to add more understeer.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
08-24-2016, 08:35 PM
#13
When you look at the specs for the oem cr tires, Bridgestone RE070, 255 rears are 9.8" wide.
Meanwhile the RE050 originally on the normal ap2 S, in 245, are the exact same 9.8"!
So the CR rear tires don't appear to actually be any wider than the regular S, despite the tires numeric differences.
It seems like Honda wanted to keep the front to rear tire width balance of the ap2, and to do that with the tires used with the CR meant tires with 255 written on the side.
What this appears to mean is if you want to choose tires that mimick the CR widths, and the tires you are going to get are not RE070's, then you probably want 245 rears.
This would appear to negate the idea of using 215/255, for any tires other than 070's, unless you want to add more understeer.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
Meanwhile the RE050 originally on the normal ap2 S, in 245, are the exact same 9.8"!
So the CR rear tires don't appear to actually be any wider than the regular S, despite the tires numeric differences.
It seems like Honda wanted to keep the front to rear tire width balance of the ap2, and to do that with the tires used with the CR meant tires with 255 written on the side.
What this appears to mean is if you want to choose tires that mimick the CR widths, and the tires you are going to get are not RE070's, then you probably want 245 rears.
This would appear to negate the idea of using 215/255, for any tires other than 070's, unless you want to add more understeer.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
I haven't looked up the width specs on the front CR RE070, but I do know that the factory RE050 front 215 are very narrow compared to extreme category tires which the RE070 is more akin to.
08-25-2016, 05:36 AM
#15
I ordered the Bridgestone S-04s in 215/255 and should have them mounted early next week. I'll let you know how they feel. Or if you're not in a huge hurry, you can drive my car at Gettysburg to see for yourself.
Justin
08-25-2016, 09:20 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Hi Justin --
Thanks!
Just considering the 800 miles I'll probably put on getting to, from, and around Gettysburg next month and the miles I'll drive between now and then I went and ordered new S-04 tires in these same sizes as you. Fronts arrived at my "tire guy" yesterday; rears are enroute from Arizona and due early next week. The RE-11A tires would probably be fine but a flat tire with these cars is a dramatic event since the spare is pretty useless for more than a few miles and the tires themselves are not stocked in East Wherever where these events occur.
My guy won't be shy about telling me if I ran them too long! The RE-11A tread is right at the legal/safety cusp and with so little tread depth my rain confidence is getting fairly low. The S-04 tires have a high wet road rating.
This will be my first experience below the Extreme Performance Summer Tire rating but judging on the mileage I got out of the RE-11A tires I ain't driving as aggressively as I thought I was.
See ya in a few weeks. I may stick my Gettysburg College sticker on the car if I remember.
-- Chuck
Thanks!
Just considering the 800 miles I'll probably put on getting to, from, and around Gettysburg next month and the miles I'll drive between now and then I went and ordered new S-04 tires in these same sizes as you. Fronts arrived at my "tire guy" yesterday; rears are enroute from Arizona and due early next week. The RE-11A tires would probably be fine but a flat tire with these cars is a dramatic event since the spare is pretty useless for more than a few miles and the tires themselves are not stocked in East Wherever where these events occur.
My guy won't be shy about telling me if I ran them too long! The RE-11A tread is right at the legal/safety cusp and with so little tread depth my rain confidence is getting fairly low. The S-04 tires have a high wet road rating.This will be my first experience below the Extreme Performance Summer Tire rating but judging on the mileage I got out of the RE-11A tires I ain't driving as aggressively as I thought I was.
See ya in a few weeks. I may stick my Gettysburg College sticker on the car if I remember.
-- Chuck
08-25-2016, 10:23 AM
#17
I am a B street autocrosser so my tolerance levels may be different haha, but I also am able to safely push the car to its limits and check its behavior and I deal with several sets of tires a year so I get a bit of experience with a variety of tires. I also am assuming since you are talking about stock size is 215/245 you have an AP2. I also am sadly coming in here after you bought tires and part of this will seem a bit ranty on your tire choice.
To answer the thread question. The 255 rear tire understeer is noticeable at the limit! The nose rotates noticable slower. My friend's 03 AP1 with stock tire sizes and alignment rotated noticable faster when I ran 255s in the back. The only reason to go 255 over 245 in the rear is heat resistance, which for autocross doesn't seem to be a problem and as I mentioned you lose turn in. I run a 245/245 and know a lot of people that do and am surprised it wasn't mentioned. With 245 square the car rotates better and any new 245 sized tire will have better road feel and sharpness than the 215 OEM tires.
I have an 08 AP2 and in stock form the car understeered with stock tire sizes and alignment and exhibited high speed snap oversteer. 225s up front will also understeer. You need the front bar to fix the high speed snap oversteer and you need wide front tires and an alignment for any sort of neutral handling. I am currently running stock shocks, Karcepts front bar, and an autocross alignment max front camber and caster with 3/32" toe out, 2 degrees rear with .25" toe in because my rear adjusters are frozen.
Also Why would you consider the OEM tires? The OEM s2000 tires are based on 10 year old tire technology and you can tell haha. Let alone the fact they are expensive and they are summers that don't have much grip, dont have good feedback, aren't as good in the rain, are harsh and don't last as long as a lot of newer tire choices. I used the OEM tires the car came with for a few months when they got burned up from autocrossing switched to modern tires and never looked back haha.
The BFG Comp 2s, an all season, are what I daily on then switch to RE71Rs for autocross. Definitely recommend the Comp 2s for anyone street driving. If its summer only and you can afford it go for the Pilot Super Sports or RE71Rs. If you want to go from low .8g to 1.1g just by buying tires get some RE71Rs or PSSs and have a blast.
The RE11s are also getting toward although a lot of people do like them for track.
To answer the thread question. The 255 rear tire understeer is noticeable at the limit! The nose rotates noticable slower. My friend's 03 AP1 with stock tire sizes and alignment rotated noticable faster when I ran 255s in the back. The only reason to go 255 over 245 in the rear is heat resistance, which for autocross doesn't seem to be a problem and as I mentioned you lose turn in. I run a 245/245 and know a lot of people that do and am surprised it wasn't mentioned. With 245 square the car rotates better and any new 245 sized tire will have better road feel and sharpness than the 215 OEM tires.
I have an 08 AP2 and in stock form the car understeered with stock tire sizes and alignment and exhibited high speed snap oversteer. 225s up front will also understeer. You need the front bar to fix the high speed snap oversteer and you need wide front tires and an alignment for any sort of neutral handling. I am currently running stock shocks, Karcepts front bar, and an autocross alignment max front camber and caster with 3/32" toe out, 2 degrees rear with .25" toe in because my rear adjusters are frozen.
Also Why would you consider the OEM tires? The OEM s2000 tires are based on 10 year old tire technology and you can tell haha. Let alone the fact they are expensive and they are summers that don't have much grip, dont have good feedback, aren't as good in the rain, are harsh and don't last as long as a lot of newer tire choices. I used the OEM tires the car came with for a few months when they got burned up from autocrossing switched to modern tires and never looked back haha.
The BFG Comp 2s, an all season, are what I daily on then switch to RE71Rs for autocross. Definitely recommend the Comp 2s for anyone street driving. If its summer only and you can afford it go for the Pilot Super Sports or RE71Rs. If you want to go from low .8g to 1.1g just by buying tires get some RE71Rs or PSSs and have a blast.
The RE11s are also getting toward although a lot of people do like them for track.
08-25-2016, 03:20 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Well, there's two (2) of us fitting 215/255s in the next couple of weeks and one or both of us will probably post comments in a few weeks. Wouldn't be the first pair or tires (or exhaust) I've removed and sold if need be. 
I ain't driving them for two years if I don't like them.
-- Chuck
I ain't driving them for two years if I don't like them.-- Chuck
