My B Street Build
02-23-2015, 02:59 PM
#1
Thread Starter
My B Street Build
Hi all,
It's been a long time since I've been active on s2ki-- I've spent the last few years tracking a 944 Turbo and using my AP1 as a daily driver. I went to an autocross a few weeks ago and got bitten by the bug to get back into autocross.
So, I want to build a car that is capable of winning B Street at nationals (whether the driver will be equally capable is an entirely different question!). Clean sheet of paper. What will it take?
Here is my build sheet, questions to follow:
AP2 S2000 $20,000
Moton Clubsports $5,000
Monster FSB $1,000
Titanium Exhaust $2,000
Wheels $2,000
Tires $1,000
Modifry shift beeper $200
Solo DL $600
Alignment $100
Brake pads $200
K&N air filter $50
fluids $100
Modified pedals $100
Reflash ECU $500
Catalytic converter $500
Total $33,350
Questions:
1. Is there any advantage to an '06+ relative to an '04 or '05 AP2? I understand the '06's are easier to reflash, but that seems to be disallowed by rule 13.9.D.
2. I have a little bit of trouble heel-toeing without modifying the pedals. 13.2.A seems to allow for this kind of comfort and convenience adjustment. Correct?
3. Is there any benefit to an aftermarket catalytic converter that falls within the rules?
4. Anything I am missing?
Thanks so much! Excited to get back into this!!!
It's been a long time since I've been active on s2ki-- I've spent the last few years tracking a 944 Turbo and using my AP1 as a daily driver. I went to an autocross a few weeks ago and got bitten by the bug to get back into autocross.
So, I want to build a car that is capable of winning B Street at nationals (whether the driver will be equally capable is an entirely different question!). Clean sheet of paper. What will it take?
Here is my build sheet, questions to follow:
AP2 S2000 $20,000
Moton Clubsports $5,000
Monster FSB $1,000
Titanium Exhaust $2,000
Wheels $2,000
Tires $1,000
Modifry shift beeper $200
Solo DL $600
Alignment $100
Brake pads $200
K&N air filter $50
fluids $100
Modified pedals $100
Reflash ECU $500
Catalytic converter $500
Total $33,350
Questions:
1. Is there any advantage to an '06+ relative to an '04 or '05 AP2? I understand the '06's are easier to reflash, but that seems to be disallowed by rule 13.9.D.
2. I have a little bit of trouble heel-toeing without modifying the pedals. 13.2.A seems to allow for this kind of comfort and convenience adjustment. Correct?
3. Is there any benefit to an aftermarket catalytic converter that falls within the rules?
4. Anything I am missing?
Thanks so much! Excited to get back into this!!!
02-23-2015, 03:32 PM
#3
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Here's my take:
...a car that is capable of winning B Street at nationals...
AP2 S2000 $15,000
Double adjustable dampers $2,000 to $5,000 (be patient, watch F/S listings)
Karcepts FSB $675
Titanium Exhaust $2,000
DIY exhaust out rear bumper $100
Wheels $2,000
Tires $750
Modifry shift beeper $200
Solo DL $600
Alignment $100
Brake pads $200 stock are fine for auto-x
K&N air filter $50
fluids $100
Modified pedals $30 - RR link, if needed (though, S2k is the easiest car I've ever heal-toed)
Reflash ECU $500 not legal
Catalytic converter $500 not legal
Total < $19k
AP2 S2000 $15,000
Double adjustable dampers $2,000 to $5,000 (be patient, watch F/S listings)
Karcepts FSB $675
DIY exhaust out rear bumper $100
Tires $750
Alignment $100
fluids $100
Modified pedals $30 - RR link, if needed (though, S2k is the easiest car I've ever heal-toed)
Total < $19k
02-23-2015, 04:01 PM
#4
Questions:
1. Is there any advantage to an '06+ relative to an '04 or '05 AP2? I understand the '06's are easier to reflash, but that seems to be disallowed by rule 13.9.D.
2. I have a little bit of trouble heel-toeing without modifying the pedals. 13.2.A seems to allow for this kind of comfort and convenience adjustment. Correct?
3. Is there any benefit to an aftermarket catalytic converter that falls within the rules?
4. Anything I am missing?
Thanks so much! Excited to get back into this!!!
1. Is there any advantage to an '06+ relative to an '04 or '05 AP2? I understand the '06's are easier to reflash, but that seems to be disallowed by rule 13.9.D.
2. I have a little bit of trouble heel-toeing without modifying the pedals. 13.2.A seems to allow for this kind of comfort and convenience adjustment. Correct?
3. Is there any benefit to an aftermarket catalytic converter that falls within the rules?
4. Anything I am missing?
Thanks so much! Excited to get back into this!!!
2) skip
3) Protest bait, stick with stock...
4) Corvettes???
Not category legal.
02-24-2015, 07:03 AM
#6
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This is pretty much exactly what I have been doing, but since you have some time you can definitely do it cheaper. Below is what I've done, and if you're patient you can find the things you need on the used market for a good bit less. I'm not trying to win nationals and for budget reasons kept the OEM shocks and wheels, but you can definitely have a competitive car for well under your initially proposed budget.
As for your questions, I've been looking into pedal covers as well but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I also have a seat lowering kit I have yet to install that would also solve my heel/toe problem (my leg hits the steering wheel), but I'm not sure if that's class legal and also falls under the comfort item thing.
As others have said, the reflash isn't class legal so you can skip that. I also agree that replacing the cat is something that will beg for a protest and, since high flow cats aren't class legal, putting in an OEM type replacement will net you pretty much nothing.
As for your questions, I've been looking into pedal covers as well but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I also have a seat lowering kit I have yet to install that would also solve my heel/toe problem (my leg hits the steering wheel), but I'm not sure if that's class legal and also falls under the comfort item thing.
As others have said, the reflash isn't class legal so you can skip that. I also agree that replacing the cat is something that will beg for a protest and, since high flow cats aren't class legal, putting in an OEM type replacement will net you pretty much nothing.
Here is my build sheet, questions to follow:
AP2 S2000 $19,000
Moton Clubsports $5,000
Solid Gendron FSB with upgraded mounts $550
Titanium Exhaust $650
Wheels $2,000
Tires $1,000
Modifry shift beeper $200
Solo DL $600
Alignment $100
Brake pads $200
K&N air filter $50
fluids $100
Modified pedals $100
Reflash ECU $500
Catalytic converter $500
Total $21,750
Questions:
1. Is there any advantage to an '06+ relative to an '04 or '05 AP2? I understand the '06's are easier to reflash, but that seems to be disallowed by rule 13.9.D.
2. I have a little bit of trouble heel-toeing without modifying the pedals. 13.2.A seems to allow for this kind of comfort and convenience adjustment. Correct?
3. Is there any benefit to an aftermarket catalytic converter that falls within the rules?
4. Anything I am missing?
Thanks so much! Excited to get back into this!!!
AP2 S2000 $19,000
Solid Gendron FSB with upgraded mounts $550
Titanium Exhaust $650
Tires $1,000
Alignment $100
Brake pads $200
K&N air filter $50
fluids $100
Modified pedals $100
Total $21,750
Questions:
1. Is there any advantage to an '06+ relative to an '04 or '05 AP2? I understand the '06's are easier to reflash, but that seems to be disallowed by rule 13.9.D.
2. I have a little bit of trouble heel-toeing without modifying the pedals. 13.2.A seems to allow for this kind of comfort and convenience adjustment. Correct?
3. Is there any benefit to an aftermarket catalytic converter that falls within the rules?
4. Anything I am missing?
Thanks so much! Excited to get back into this!!!
02-24-2015, 12:27 PM
#7
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Aside from the things folks mentioned regarding illegality (is that a word? 
) of ECU tuning in Street and budget minded recommendations, I can appreciate the attitude of a "no excuses" all out build. With that, I would say the following:
Your money spent on things like a titanium exhaust and lightweight exhaust are better spent on really high end shocks. As others have stated in similar threads like these, pro shocks like an MCS with big nitrogen pressure add effective spring rate to the car. Adding much needed spring to the stock soft and compliant suspension means a real pace advantage on course, and typically allows to run a little less front swaybar than cars without them. In a very tight class these tenths can decide a championship. That said, if you are not a pointy ender that isn't already dominating your local and regional b-street class, then buying a high shock is a waste of money. I would recommend the following setup to see where you stack up:
Any AP2 is going to be fine. They are very similar in performance but the newer AP2's are a bit stiffer (win) and may make a little more power (win) but are a little heavier (lose)
K&N filter
Gendron or Karcepts front Swaybar, probably going to end up in the middle to upper range of that on stock shocks
B-street alignment (Max the front camber after subframe alignment)
A nice set of tires, probably going to be a 245/255 RS3V2, Toyo, Z2SS or other tire of choice.
A budget minded lightweight, highflow exhaust, something like a stainless steel 70mm or bigger single that will save a bit of weight and make a little more power. A stock exhaust would also do just fine but you get a little performance from the mod and it sounds cool
You should be spanking the regional competition with the aforementioned setup unless you are already in a very competitive region with trophy contenders. If you are spanking them, then do a national tour with some big names and see if you can keep up or win. If so, go ahead and spend some money on the big ticket items. If not, then keep practicing, keep tuning the setup to your preferences, have fun and then give it a go once you are all set.
Good luck and have fun.
) of ECU tuning in Street and budget minded recommendations, I can appreciate the attitude of a "no excuses" all out build. With that, I would say the following:Your money spent on things like a titanium exhaust and lightweight exhaust are better spent on really high end shocks. As others have stated in similar threads like these, pro shocks like an MCS with big nitrogen pressure add effective spring rate to the car. Adding much needed spring to the stock soft and compliant suspension means a real pace advantage on course, and typically allows to run a little less front swaybar than cars without them. In a very tight class these tenths can decide a championship. That said, if you are not a pointy ender that isn't already dominating your local and regional b-street class, then buying a high shock is a waste of money. I would recommend the following setup to see where you stack up:
Any AP2 is going to be fine. They are very similar in performance but the newer AP2's are a bit stiffer (win) and may make a little more power (win) but are a little heavier (lose)
K&N filter
Gendron or Karcepts front Swaybar, probably going to end up in the middle to upper range of that on stock shocks
B-street alignment (Max the front camber after subframe alignment)
A nice set of tires, probably going to be a 245/255 RS3V2, Toyo, Z2SS or other tire of choice.
A budget minded lightweight, highflow exhaust, something like a stainless steel 70mm or bigger single that will save a bit of weight and make a little more power. A stock exhaust would also do just fine but you get a little performance from the mod and it sounds cool
You should be spanking the regional competition with the aforementioned setup unless you are already in a very competitive region with trophy contenders. If you are spanking them, then do a national tour with some big names and see if you can keep up or win. If so, go ahead and spend some money on the big ticket items. If not, then keep practicing, keep tuning the setup to your preferences, have fun and then give it a go once you are all set.
Good luck and have fun.
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02-24-2015, 02:11 PM
#8
Well at least last year a stock s2000 with tires and a front sway bar likely could have won nationals if I'd just decided to shift to 3rd day 1, so I'd start with that and make sure you get a good alignment. The rest of it is chasing relatively small pieces of time (worthwhile if you have the cash and don't want any excuses, but not critical to get started).
The pedal covers are legal, since I'm not sure anyone has answered that question.
Or it sounds like maybe you want to go to STR? The build you outlined is somewhere between BS and STR...both very popular S2000 classes.
The pedal covers are legal, since I'm not sure anyone has answered that question.
Or it sounds like maybe you want to go to STR? The build you outlined is somewhere between BS and STR...both very popular S2000 classes.
02-24-2015, 05:15 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Aside from the things folks mentioned regarding illegality (is that a word? ) of ECU tuning in Street and budget minded recommendations, I can appreciate the attitude of a "no excuses" all out build. With that, I would say the following:
Your money spent on things like a titanium exhaust and lightweight exhaust are better spent on really high end shocks. As others have stated in similar threads like these, pro shocks like an MCS with big nitrogen pressure add effective spring rate to the car. Adding much needed spring to the stock soft and compliant suspension means a real pace advantage on course, and typically allows to run a little less front swaybar than cars without them. In a very tight class these tenths can decide a championship. That said, if you are not a pointy ender that isn't already dominating your local and regional b-street class, then buying a high shock is a waste of money. I would recommend the following setup to see where you stack up:
Any AP2 is going to be fine. They are very similar in performance but the newer AP2's are a bit stiffer (win) and may make a little more power (win) but are a little heavier (lose)
K&N filter
Gendron or Karcepts front Swaybar, probably going to end up in the middle to upper range of that on stock shocks
B-street alignment (Max the front camber after subframe alignment)
A nice set of tires, probably going to be a 245/255 RS3V2, Toyo, Z2SS or other tire of choice.
A budget minded lightweight, highflow exhaust, something like a stainless steel 70mm or bigger single that will save a bit of weight and make a little more power. A stock exhaust would also do just fine but you get a little performance from the mod and it sounds cool
You should be spanking the regional competition with the aforementioned setup unless you are already in a very competitive region with trophy contenders. If you are spanking them, then do a national tour with some big names and see if you can keep up or win. If so, go ahead and spend some money on the big ticket items. If not, then keep practicing, keep tuning the setup to your preferences, have fun and then give it a go once you are all set.
Good luck and have fun.
) of ECU tuning in Street and budget minded recommendations, I can appreciate the attitude of a "no excuses" all out build. With that, I would say the following:Your money spent on things like a titanium exhaust and lightweight exhaust are better spent on really high end shocks. As others have stated in similar threads like these, pro shocks like an MCS with big nitrogen pressure add effective spring rate to the car. Adding much needed spring to the stock soft and compliant suspension means a real pace advantage on course, and typically allows to run a little less front swaybar than cars without them. In a very tight class these tenths can decide a championship. That said, if you are not a pointy ender that isn't already dominating your local and regional b-street class, then buying a high shock is a waste of money. I would recommend the following setup to see where you stack up:
Any AP2 is going to be fine. They are very similar in performance but the newer AP2's are a bit stiffer (win) and may make a little more power (win) but are a little heavier (lose)
K&N filter
Gendron or Karcepts front Swaybar, probably going to end up in the middle to upper range of that on stock shocks
B-street alignment (Max the front camber after subframe alignment)
A nice set of tires, probably going to be a 245/255 RS3V2, Toyo, Z2SS or other tire of choice.
A budget minded lightweight, highflow exhaust, something like a stainless steel 70mm or bigger single that will save a bit of weight and make a little more power. A stock exhaust would also do just fine but you get a little performance from the mod and it sounds cool
You should be spanking the regional competition with the aforementioned setup unless you are already in a very competitive region with trophy contenders. If you are spanking them, then do a national tour with some big names and see if you can keep up or win. If so, go ahead and spend some money on the big ticket items. If not, then keep practicing, keep tuning the setup to your preferences, have fun and then give it a go once you are all set.
Good luck and have fun.
Some background: I won my region three years in a row in my AP1, 2005-2007. In 2008, I planned on going to nationals with it, but the CR got classed in with the AP1's, so I bought an STS2 CRX (named Bubba) and took it to nationals. I finished 16th out of 34, 2+ seconds out of second place. The thing was, I had $6000 in the car, while much of the competition had $5000 in their shocks. So I decided, if I were to go back, I wasn't going to bring a knife to a gun fight.
After that, I converted a 944 turbo into a track car and have been spending my time at VIR as much as I can (which isn't all that often, as anyone with a 944 turbo can appreciate). Here's my best lap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WajlE9hBp2k. I'm a little tired of HPDE's though, too many people with no talent (and no mirrors) buying their speed. And I just don't have the budget to go racing. And I'm really really tired of spending all my free time underneath a 944 turbo.
So, I went to an autocross a few weeks ago, and really enjoyed the competition. It was cold and I couldn't get my tires heated up and I didn't have an alignment, but I feel like my driving was as good as ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-Qc...DuzAd2Hhol-ETg
So, I want to give competitive autocross a go again. I realize I have little chance of winning nationals, but I'm sure I could trophy if I run well and maybe even get near the pointy end. Don't know if any of this changes your thoughts (or reinforces them!), but thought I'd throw it out there.
Again, I appreciate all the advice!
