Odourless toxic fumes in cabin with heating
04-02-2016, 09:20 AM
#81
Thanks for the explanation. Since reading your post last night, I've seen several academic papers on this topic, your explanation is easier for me to understand. This definitely has merit given the damage to the car and the repair that used some OEM parts and some aftermarket/third-party parts per the insurance company's policy.
However, I still think it has something to do with cabin air quality. A couple of details that I omitted from my long post concerning air in the cabin:
1) We have done a 30-minute sample of the cabin air while the engine was idling and while driving to compare to a control sampled beforehand with the engine off and doors and windows closed for 30 minutes. We're waiting on the lab results of this.
2) In the meantime, using cPap masks and hoses and dense foam rubber to reseal the open window around the hose, we were able rig up a way to breathe only fresh air from outside the cabin--air that hadn't passed through the HVAC system or immediately past the engine bay. We drove around this way for more than an hour of both stop-and-go city driving and highway driving. During this time, we never experienced any of the symptoms we experience in 10 minutes of normal driving the car since the accident and repair.
However, I still think it has something to do with cabin air quality. A couple of details that I omitted from my long post concerning air in the cabin:
1) We have done a 30-minute sample of the cabin air while the engine was idling and while driving to compare to a control sampled beforehand with the engine off and doors and windows closed for 30 minutes. We're waiting on the lab results of this.
2) In the meantime, using cPap masks and hoses and dense foam rubber to reseal the open window around the hose, we were able rig up a way to breathe only fresh air from outside the cabin--air that hadn't passed through the HVAC system or immediately past the engine bay. We drove around this way for more than an hour of both stop-and-go city driving and highway driving. During this time, we never experienced any of the symptoms we experience in 10 minutes of normal driving the car since the accident and repair.
04-02-2016, 01:33 PM
#82
Originally Posted by Daytona-Dave' timestamp='1453206694' post='23856329
Mold or fungus on the aircon unit can give quite bad reactions health wise
Thanks for the explanation. Since reading your post last night, I've seen several academic papers on this topic, your explanation is easier for me to understand. This definitely has merit given the damage to the car and the repair that used some OEM parts and some aftermarket/third-party parts per the insurance company's policy.
However, I still think it has something to do with cabin air quality. A couple of details that I omitted from my long post concerning air in the cabin:
1) We have done a 30-minute sample of the cabin air while the engine was idling and while driving to compare to a control sampled beforehand with the engine off and doors and windows closed for 30 minutes. We're waiting on the lab results of this.
2) In the meantime, using cPap masks and hoses and dense foam rubber to reseal the open window around the hose, we were able rig up a way to breathe only fresh air from outside the cabin--air that hadn't passed through the HVAC system or immediately past the engine bay. We drove around this way for more than an hour of both stop-and-go city driving and highway driving. During this time, we never experienced any of the symptoms we experience in 10 minutes of normal driving the car since the accident and repair.
However, I still think it has something to do with cabin air quality. A couple of details that I omitted from my long post concerning air in the cabin:
1) We have done a 30-minute sample of the cabin air while the engine was idling and while driving to compare to a control sampled beforehand with the engine off and doors and windows closed for 30 minutes. We're waiting on the lab results of this.
2) In the meantime, using cPap masks and hoses and dense foam rubber to reseal the open window around the hose, we were able rig up a way to breathe only fresh air from outside the cabin--air that hadn't passed through the HVAC system or immediately past the engine bay. We drove around this way for more than an hour of both stop-and-go city driving and highway driving. During this time, we never experienced any of the symptoms we experience in 10 minutes of normal driving the car since the accident and repair.
A/V was mentioned a long time ago
04-02-2016, 01:34 PM
#83
04-02-2016, 01:36 PM
#84
Thanks for the explanation. Since reading your post last night, I've seen several academic papers on this topic, your explanation is easier for me to understand. This definitely has merit given the damage to the car and the repair that used some OEM parts and some aftermarket/third-party parts per the insurance company's policy.
1) We have done a 30-minute sample of the cabin air while the engine was idling and while driving to compare to a control sampled beforehand with the engine off and doors and windows closed for 30 minutes. We're waiting on the lab results of this.
1) We have done a 30-minute sample of the cabin air while the engine was idling and while driving to compare to a control sampled beforehand with the engine off and doors and windows closed for 30 minutes. We're waiting on the lab results of this.
04-04-2016, 08:03 AM
#87
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Thanks to each of you for your comments and insights.
To answer a question from davidc1, the cabin air tests were with a pump and tube sniffer/collector (I don't know the technical name for this device) that a friend in environmental testing allowed us to borrow. We hope to have results from him this week.
Yes, we have changed the cabin filters. No difference, and they weren't even that dirty.
To test Daytona-Dave's theory that it's harmonic/vibration sickness, we drove around without the HVAC off and felt agitated and sick to say the least. We noticed that it was louder than before the accident--louder than usual motor/exhaust noise and vibration in general and just before the transmission shifted and especially under hard acceleration. We could both hear and feel this. At idle, as soon as we turned the engine off, there was a sense of relief.
For comparison, we drove another Armada with the same engine and equipment and comparable year and mileage. The other Armada was noticeably quieter and had far less vibration. Further, we parked the two vehicles side by side and listened to their engines--one was smooth while ours had an irregular "tick" for lack of a better word. I'm not knowledgable enough to say whether that's the same tick that indicates an exhaust leak.
The next day, we started fresh. Of course the vibration was there, so we tried to separate it in our heads from anything else going on. After about 5 minutes we turned on the HVAC system and immdiately felt much sicker and more agitated. The outside air temperature was 52F. We put the system on auto and set the temperature as low as it would go (60F), but after about 5 minutes we moved it up to 70F and felt no better or worse. After about 10 minutes we turned off the HVAC and opened the sunroof and front side windows to get fresh air into the car.
The car is back at the dealershp with these additional observations for the service techs to consider. Daytona-Dave's theory carries a lot of weight, but we may well be dealing with multiple issues.
To answer a question from davidc1, the cabin air tests were with a pump and tube sniffer/collector (I don't know the technical name for this device) that a friend in environmental testing allowed us to borrow. We hope to have results from him this week.
Yes, we have changed the cabin filters. No difference, and they weren't even that dirty.
To test Daytona-Dave's theory that it's harmonic/vibration sickness, we drove around without the HVAC off and felt agitated and sick to say the least. We noticed that it was louder than before the accident--louder than usual motor/exhaust noise and vibration in general and just before the transmission shifted and especially under hard acceleration. We could both hear and feel this. At idle, as soon as we turned the engine off, there was a sense of relief.
For comparison, we drove another Armada with the same engine and equipment and comparable year and mileage. The other Armada was noticeably quieter and had far less vibration. Further, we parked the two vehicles side by side and listened to their engines--one was smooth while ours had an irregular "tick" for lack of a better word. I'm not knowledgable enough to say whether that's the same tick that indicates an exhaust leak.
The next day, we started fresh. Of course the vibration was there, so we tried to separate it in our heads from anything else going on. After about 5 minutes we turned on the HVAC system and immdiately felt much sicker and more agitated. The outside air temperature was 52F. We put the system on auto and set the temperature as low as it would go (60F), but after about 5 minutes we moved it up to 70F and felt no better or worse. After about 10 minutes we turned off the HVAC and opened the sunroof and front side windows to get fresh air into the car.
The car is back at the dealershp with these additional observations for the service techs to consider. Daytona-Dave's theory carries a lot of weight, but we may well be dealing with multiple issues.
04-04-2016, 08:18 AM
#88
I still think its you. All those cars with the same, odourless fault? Sounds like a reverse placebo effect.
However, have you sat in the car with the engine running, the hvac on but without the car moving? How do you feel then?
However, have you sat in the car with the engine running, the hvac on but without the car moving? How do you feel then?
04-04-2016, 10:56 AM
#89
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I'll concede that we may be more sensitive to whatever it is than many people, but this wasn't a happening before the accident and subsequent repair work. We're looking for solutions to keep the car, not reasons to get rid of it.
I'll even concede that it seems odd for two people to claim to have had these problems at some point in the ownership of so many different cars (which is why I'm so persistent in trying to find a solution--I'd like to keep and drive the cars we buy!). The original poster was having very similar symptoms from an S2000--which I realize is the focus of this forum--and I'm seeking counsel about a Nissan Armada, which would seem strange, except that they're both have petrol-/gasoline-powered internal combustion engines, exhaust manifolds, transmissions, power steering pumps, master brake cylinders, EGR valves, catalytic converters, intrusions through the firewall for steering wheels and other components and they have HVAC systems that take supposedly fresh air from an area near to the engine components. These things make them more similar than different.
Why is it so difficult to believe that when the engine is running we're experiencing something in the cabin to which we're especially sensitive? With the engine off, it doesn't bother us. I can sit there for hours and not feel bad. I did that on one of the earlier cars we no longer have.
As I said earlier, we compared another Armada to ours over the weekend. Driving ours agitates and makes us feel sick, but the other doesn't.
On our car, if the engine is idling--HVAC on and off--we feel agitated, but we feel worse if the HVAC is on. That's why I'm now thinking there may be multiple problems, thanks to Daytona-Dave's earlier post.
Thanks, and I look forward to further comments.
I'll even concede that it seems odd for two people to claim to have had these problems at some point in the ownership of so many different cars (which is why I'm so persistent in trying to find a solution--I'd like to keep and drive the cars we buy!). The original poster was having very similar symptoms from an S2000--which I realize is the focus of this forum--and I'm seeking counsel about a Nissan Armada, which would seem strange, except that they're both have petrol-/gasoline-powered internal combustion engines, exhaust manifolds, transmissions, power steering pumps, master brake cylinders, EGR valves, catalytic converters, intrusions through the firewall for steering wheels and other components and they have HVAC systems that take supposedly fresh air from an area near to the engine components. These things make them more similar than different.
Why is it so difficult to believe that when the engine is running we're experiencing something in the cabin to which we're especially sensitive? With the engine off, it doesn't bother us. I can sit there for hours and not feel bad. I did that on one of the earlier cars we no longer have.
As I said earlier, we compared another Armada to ours over the weekend. Driving ours agitates and makes us feel sick, but the other doesn't.
On our car, if the engine is idling--HVAC on and off--we feel agitated, but we feel worse if the HVAC is on. That's why I'm now thinking there may be multiple problems, thanks to Daytona-Dave's earlier post.
Thanks, and I look forward to further comments.
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