Custom BBK Front & Rear
06-21-2016, 08:12 AM
#1
Custom BBK Front & Rear
Hi.
I'm making my custom BBK and I will use 323mm/32mm front rotors and with 4 pot calipers 36.5/41mm pistons
For the rear I will use 25.5/29mm pistons. Now I'm debating what size will have to be my rear rotors to maintain the proper bias.
oem front piston area is 2289 mm2 - my calipers are 2365 mm2
oem rear piston area is 1287.5 mm2 - my calipers are 1170 mm2
So anyone can give me any advice?
I will be using 215 tires on front and 245 tires on back
tanks
I'm making my custom BBK and I will use 323mm/32mm front rotors and with 4 pot calipers 36.5/41mm pistons
For the rear I will use 25.5/29mm pistons. Now I'm debating what size will have to be my rear rotors to maintain the proper bias.
oem front piston area is 2289 mm2 - my calipers are 2365 mm2
oem rear piston area is 1287.5 mm2 - my calipers are 1170 mm2
So anyone can give me any advice?
I will be using 215 tires on front and 245 tires on back
tanks
06-21-2016, 07:04 PM
#4
The S2000 is about the same weight and weight distribution as a late model stock car. The late models have a longer wheelbase (105"-108"), equal size front and rear tires (215 seems narrow for a track oriented car; rules? late models have 10" wide rims, 13" wide tires). I'm not sure about CG, but it is probably close.
Essex stocks front calipers in 1.87"/1.75" (48mm/45mm) and rears in either 1.375" (35mm) or 1.25" (32mm). Rotors are 60 vane for the front in 1.25"/32mm width with either 11.75"/299mm or 12.19/310mm diameters. For the rear the rotors are 28 vane 11.75" diameter with either .81"/21mm or 1.25"/32mm width. 4 rotors and 4 calipers without hats or brackets are just over $2200. RE Suspension lists them for just over $1900.
The catalog: https://www.essexpar...del2016_WEB.pdf
The PFC Z34 monoblock calipers have slightly smaller pistons (I think 44mm/41mm in the front, 25.5mm/29mm in the rear, although a 29mm/36.5mm rear is also available) and same size rotors. They also have their V3 snap ring boltless rotor mounts. They are more expensive, I believe $2800-$3000 or so for 4 rotors and 4 calipers without brackets or hats. TTBOMK the only pads for the PFC calipers are PFC (not necessarily a bad thing) while the AP are standard Superlight pads.
Note that for late models the hats and brackets are standard parts. Here they would be custom.
This is a video of the PFC caliper and rotor on a 5x5 late model hub at the 2015 PRI show:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQ4O_WBJVE[/media]
If making your own brackets, if you can make top and bottom shock brackets for eye bearings, Lefthander Chassis has 4 Penske 7500DA shocks for $2400 and RE Suspension has 4 Ohlins TTX36/ILX shocks for $3400, $4200, and $5000 for 2-way, 3-way, and 4-way adjustability. I believe both vendors bought large quantities to drive down the price.
Essex stocks front calipers in 1.87"/1.75" (48mm/45mm) and rears in either 1.375" (35mm) or 1.25" (32mm). Rotors are 60 vane for the front in 1.25"/32mm width with either 11.75"/299mm or 12.19/310mm diameters. For the rear the rotors are 28 vane 11.75" diameter with either .81"/21mm or 1.25"/32mm width. 4 rotors and 4 calipers without hats or brackets are just over $2200. RE Suspension lists them for just over $1900.
The catalog: https://www.essexpar...del2016_WEB.pdf
The PFC Z34 monoblock calipers have slightly smaller pistons (I think 44mm/41mm in the front, 25.5mm/29mm in the rear, although a 29mm/36.5mm rear is also available) and same size rotors. They also have their V3 snap ring boltless rotor mounts. They are more expensive, I believe $2800-$3000 or so for 4 rotors and 4 calipers without brackets or hats. TTBOMK the only pads for the PFC calipers are PFC (not necessarily a bad thing) while the AP are standard Superlight pads.
Note that for late models the hats and brackets are standard parts. Here they would be custom.
This is a video of the PFC caliper and rotor on a 5x5 late model hub at the 2015 PRI show:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCQ4O_WBJVE[/media]
If making your own brackets, if you can make top and bottom shock brackets for eye bearings, Lefthander Chassis has 4 Penske 7500DA shocks for $2400 and RE Suspension has 4 Ohlins TTX36/ILX shocks for $3400, $4200, and $5000 for 2-way, 3-way, and 4-way adjustability. I believe both vendors bought large quantities to drive down the price.
06-22-2016, 09:07 AM
#5
if you increase the piston area, you will increase the pedal travel aswell, that's what i'm trying to avoid. if it's not possible then i will jhave to get a new bigger brake master cilinder. so in my calculations fronts will increase a litle bit and rears decrease a little bit. ( in piston area)
I will running non staggered tires but maye i change my mind and run 245 all corners.
so my concern will be rear rotor size.
When you run BBK at front ( lets say for example 330mm ) do you change anything on the rear or leave stock size?
I will running non staggered tires but maye i change my mind and run 245 all corners.
so my concern will be rear rotor size.
When you run BBK at front ( lets say for example 330mm ) do you change anything on the rear or leave stock size?
06-24-2016, 04:47 PM
#7
The popular BBK for this car like AP racing and Stoptech etc maintain factory bias without addressing anything in the rear, simply due to proper rotor and caliper matching for the front.
But really, if your maintaining the stock tire sizing, you may not need a BBK at all, other then for bling factor. You may not be generating enough traction to generate heat/fade issues. I still track OEM brakes with 255/295 stagger, and air ducts mind you to help regulate. For my track they hold up reasonably. Im a heavy late braker, pushing them to the max as well. I probably should have a BBK but I make do without. They aint cheap.
But really, if your maintaining the stock tire sizing, you may not need a BBK at all, other then for bling factor. You may not be generating enough traction to generate heat/fade issues. I still track OEM brakes with 255/295 stagger, and air ducts mind you to help regulate. For my track they hold up reasonably. Im a heavy late braker, pushing them to the max as well. I probably should have a BBK but I make do without. They aint cheap.
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06-24-2016, 05:59 PM
#8
The calculations are straightforward if you have the master cylinder diameters. Without, you could make a front/rear balance calculation from the stock diameters and pistons sizes.
Some of the kits, designed for track or street use but probably sold mostly for street use, are the most straightforward. Urge and Sakebomb have different solutions to deal with the rear brake which has marginal or insufficient thermal capacity for track use.
For a stock or lightly modified car, floating front rotors in the stock size (StopTech or Girodisc) and the Urge rear disk (which uses the stock caliper) with racing pads and maybe front brake cooling ducts should be adequate. For a more demanding setup, Sakebomb's BBK kit which matches their rear kit (which uses larger diameter/piston than OEM) is an alternative.
The stock car calipers and rotors have the advantage of low price. 4 calipers and 4 rotors cost less than a front BBK kit. They are used in 2750#-3000# 500hp cars with 13" (325mm) wide race tires on 10" rims that have high braking demands, maybe 115mph-to-65mph every 7-8 seconds or so.
If you can and want to make your own brackets and rotor hats the stock car stuff is impressive. A stock car uses a brake pedal with two master cylinders linked to the pedal with a driver adjustable balance bar. The master cylinders, Tilton 74s and 75s are popular, are available in different sizes. I've never seen one with ABS or EBD, but it probably could be done. Outside of the kits (and really inside of the kits) the aftermarket calipers are expensive.
Some of the kits, designed for track or street use but probably sold mostly for street use, are the most straightforward. Urge and Sakebomb have different solutions to deal with the rear brake which has marginal or insufficient thermal capacity for track use.
For a stock or lightly modified car, floating front rotors in the stock size (StopTech or Girodisc) and the Urge rear disk (which uses the stock caliper) with racing pads and maybe front brake cooling ducts should be adequate. For a more demanding setup, Sakebomb's BBK kit which matches their rear kit (which uses larger diameter/piston than OEM) is an alternative.
The stock car calipers and rotors have the advantage of low price. 4 calipers and 4 rotors cost less than a front BBK kit. They are used in 2750#-3000# 500hp cars with 13" (325mm) wide race tires on 10" rims that have high braking demands, maybe 115mph-to-65mph every 7-8 seconds or so.
If you can and want to make your own brackets and rotor hats the stock car stuff is impressive. A stock car uses a brake pedal with two master cylinders linked to the pedal with a driver adjustable balance bar. The master cylinders, Tilton 74s and 75s are popular, are available in different sizes. I've never seen one with ABS or EBD, but it probably could be done. Outside of the kits (and really inside of the kits) the aftermarket calipers are expensive.
06-25-2016, 02:02 PM
#10
The calculations are straightforward if you have the master cylinder diameters. Without, you could make a front/rear balance calculation from the stock diameters and pistons sizes.
Some of the kits, designed for track or street use but probably sold mostly for street use, are the most straightforward. Urge and Sakebomb have different solutions to deal with the rear brake which has marginal or insufficient thermal capacity for track use.
For a stock or lightly modified car, floating front rotors in the stock size (StopTech or Girodisc) and the Urge rear disk (which uses the stock caliper) with racing pads and maybe front brake cooling ducts should be adequate. For a more demanding setup, Sakebomb's BBK kit which matches their rear kit (which uses larger diameter/piston than OEM) is an alternative.
The stock car calipers and rotors have the advantage of low price. 4 calipers and 4 rotors cost less than a front BBK kit. They are used in 2750#-3000# 500hp cars with 13" (325mm) wide race tires on 10" rims that have high braking demands, maybe 115mph-to-65mph every 7-8 seconds or so.
If you can and want to make your own brackets and rotor hats the stock car stuff is impressive. A stock car uses a brake pedal with two master cylinders linked to the pedal with a driver adjustable balance bar. The master cylinders, Tilton 74s and 75s are popular, are available in different sizes. I've never seen one with ABS or EBD, but it probably could be done. Outside of the kits (and really inside of the kits) the aftermarket calipers are expensive.
Some of the kits, designed for track or street use but probably sold mostly for street use, are the most straightforward. Urge and Sakebomb have different solutions to deal with the rear brake which has marginal or insufficient thermal capacity for track use.
For a stock or lightly modified car, floating front rotors in the stock size (StopTech or Girodisc) and the Urge rear disk (which uses the stock caliper) with racing pads and maybe front brake cooling ducts should be adequate. For a more demanding setup, Sakebomb's BBK kit which matches their rear kit (which uses larger diameter/piston than OEM) is an alternative.
The stock car calipers and rotors have the advantage of low price. 4 calipers and 4 rotors cost less than a front BBK kit. They are used in 2750#-3000# 500hp cars with 13" (325mm) wide race tires on 10" rims that have high braking demands, maybe 115mph-to-65mph every 7-8 seconds or so.
If you can and want to make your own brackets and rotor hats the stock car stuff is impressive. A stock car uses a brake pedal with two master cylinders linked to the pedal with a driver adjustable balance bar. The master cylinders, Tilton 74s and 75s are popular, are available in different sizes. I've never seen one with ABS or EBD, but it probably could be done. Outside of the kits (and really inside of the kits) the aftermarket calipers are expensive.