[tnt]

My journey home tonight was not what you would call normal.

I'd just taken an easy left off one of my favorite roundabouts and accelerated hard. Common sense should have told me to take it easy because the road was damp. Anyway, the next thing I know is that the back end whipped round and I'm looking into the woods on the left hand side of the road:eek:

(You know how they say time slows down when things get a bit hairy........it's true).

For what seems ages, although I am sure it was only a few seconds, I alternatively spent pointing the car towards the right verge, then the left verge, then the right verge before I finally got things under control. I saw a red fiesta approaching me and heard the squeal of brakes (I even had time to say to myself "There goes my no claims"). Thankfully I missed it.

The only damage was a scuff mark on my rear left tyre from brushing the kerb.

What the other drivers on the road thought I have no idea. Just hope no-one recognised me ;)

Anyway, thinking back to the incident I realise that a mixture of lifting off the throttle and sawing at the wheel probably made the situation worse.

Where would you advise me to go to get some training in driving my S2000? Has any one attended the MAC courses run by Honda?

[awinskill]

tnt

Glad you missed the Fiesta, could have cost more than your NCD....

I'm going to do one of Don Palmers Wetter the Better courses before the winter..... If we can get 8 people doing it we get a discount!

Alternatively, take a look in the back of Autocar/Evo at the different training companies.

Training isn't cheap (Wetter the Better ~250 for 2 hours of constant driving - well driving with you a$se hanging out so it'll feel like 8 hours).

Another way it to get the S2K on the track.... :D

A 20 minute session cost

[Tonky]

Tnt:
Glad you're O.K. You have got to treat this car with respect in the wet. Most cars on the market come with built in understeer simply because it is the safest for most drivers and situations.In those cars it is very difficult to get the back out without the violent acceleration and steering inputs that you so need to avoid in the S2000, which will tend to oversteer when pushed. My 'half a crown.. tanner' moment came accelerating left out of an island in the wet also:p It had to happen sooner or later and thank goodness there was no damage done:) The way to look at it is you are now a much wiser bunny:cool: Those S02's by the way which are so wonderful in the dry, leave a lot to be desired in the wet:rolleyes:

[Kobe]

I think we all go through something like this in the learning curve - and its great if that it comes without a price

- in my interesting sideways moment - it hurt me more than the car - as I banged my head on the metal roof mechanism. My neck was not strong enough to resist the sudden sideways whiplash when the tyres gripped and the car snapped back....that metal hinge is really exposed,

anyway this was in the dry....but with cold tyres - I find quite a difference in grip between cold and hot - ..

[awinskill]

I went for S02-PP's this time on the back purely for wet weather traction. The tread pattern on the OEM S02 is really tight. In comparison my new tires look like they've got huge groves in them....

I had too many "wobbles" last autumn in the wet....

I'll put OEM S02's back on in the spring :D

[AnDy_PaNdY]

I had my first wet driving day in the Stook last Saturday.
I have never done so many fish tails in my life :eek:
I am going to have to treat this car with a lot of respect in the wet, it's just tooooooo nice to stuff into a lamp post (already done that one before, wouldn't recommend it :( )

:cool:

[Paul(UK)]

Had similar experience in Nov 1999. Came off a roundabout out of shape (turning right with opposite lock compensating left) snapped left when the rear got grip & went up the verge with full right lock, slithered back onto the road with steering control re-gained. No marks on car but missed lampost somehow.
Lost traction in near icy conditions. Never repeated this - but drive my Civic in winter as I
a) want to keep the salt off my S
b) find the stook unsafe in the cold - much prefer front WD in the slippery conditions
It is also one of the reasons I haven't bothered to get a hard top as it is only really useful in winter.

However I have had plenty of controllable slides in the summer.

[N-a-$-t-Y]

Im glad your ok 'T' (was your other T with you ? )

The only really bad back-ender Ive had happened with the snowy conditions in March we had. Id only just had my s2k for about a week and I lost the back end twice in one day and at very low speeds. (20-25 mph)

Ive been pretty lucky in the wet so far... and I mean I do drive pretty fast all the time, so Im also amazed that Ive not lost it regularly... Ive had a little drifting (which is nice), but not a spin... touch wood.

AWinskill, I would be interested in some kind of advanced driving lessons or wetter the better lessons. So if you anyone else is serious about it then count me in for a group session.

Jonathan.

[awinskill]

Jonathan

That's four so far (are you still up for it Brian?).

I'll put it on it's own thread to see if there's any other takers...

BTW which prison is it your S2K is parked infront of? :D

Andy

[tnt]

Thx for all your feedback.

Jonathan, Trisha wasn't with me at the time and I am not too sure what her response would have been. It's highly likely that if she had been in the car I would have been driving more slowly :rolleyes: and so wouldn't have had this encounteer.

Andy, I'd certainly be interested in some sort of course if there is room. The more I think about it the more I feel I need the training. I'll look out for your other thread.

[Turtle]

I'm not so sure Don Palmer's stuff would help with the ITR. IF I get an S2k then I'm a definate. If not Mira's literally on my doorstep so I'd certainly say hi, and come along if the origanisers were okay with it. Depends when it is. I'm going to make my -ahem- rational detatched decision :rolleyes: as to getting the S2k or not in a few days. I just want to get the ITR's brakes back to 100% to give a good account of itself before I make my final choice. I think the ITR got a little jealous of the time I was spending with watching Andy's S2k :p

-Brian.

[awinskill]

Brian,

Apologies for not taking you out in the S2K. I feel really bad in about giving you this period of worry ;). Obviously, if you'd been a passenger on my last run you'd not be worrying over the decision now! :D

Don't put it off. You know what you're going to do now don't you....

Save your brake mods for the S2K! :D

Andy

[SimonJackson]

I had my wake up call in 99. On a lip road joiing the A34. I think we all have gone through the swing swing experience.

We have all come out a lot wiser and more cautious.

I am willing to join anyone on a driving day. My only problem was that when I enquired most places wouldn't train me in my own car.

Let me know if anything develops in the south/middle of England. I know the skid pan instructore at Thruxton and if there was enough interest I could ask him about discounts. I think he wanted around 20 people though.

Sam.

[awinskill]

I'll give Don Palmer a ring this afternoon.

We have a number of options:

1. Race instruction
2. Handling instruction

Race instruction - the guys at Bentwater were excellent. They teach about keeping the car balanced. It's track focused but the skills they teach would be, I'm sure, transferrable to the road.

Handling - this is all about what to do if you get the back out. It's done on a wet, low grip surface. I know someone who did it in a barchetta (FWD) and someone who did it in 4WD and they thought it was absolutely excellent. (Brian - I'll ask Don about how much it'll benefit the ITR)

The cost will be similar

[Turtle]

Thanks Andy.

For the rest of you wondering if Andy Winskil and myself have gone completly nuts, well all I can say is the difference really has been that large for me.

Training really seems to pay off. At the Honda-R day, there was only one person who didn't like the training. He complained that he didn't like being told what to do at every corner. The again he was slow, and hammered his tires and brakes. If you just want to dip your toe in an airfield day, with some tuition, petrol etc could easily come in under

[awinskill]

I'd echo Brian's comments. I made the arrogant mistake of believing that I could drive, and drive quickly, handling the 240bhp of the S2K. A couple of laps of the airfield showed me quite quickly that I can't :o :rolleyes: I'm really pleased I found this out where I couldn't do any damage to the car and, more importantly, myself or any others.

Now I'm driving around trying to focus on being smooth, watching my steering and trying to learn how the RWD really differs from FWD..... The S2K is a wonderful car to steer by the throttle :D

I can't wait for another driving lesson!

(The experience of getting it right is just like getting your golf swing right and the ball landing just where you want it! --- you just want to do it again, and again --- but you know if you push it you'll stuff it! :D)

[N-a-$-t-Y]

After all this talk of putting the back out.... i was a little curious as to what effect having side skirts, front skirts and rear spoiler have on the handling ?
Im not to keen on the large black rear spoilers ive seen, but the small ones that sit on the bootlid. Do these help with downforce / road hugging on dry roads ?
I dont suppose in the wet it really helps at all.


[QUOTE]
awinskill wrote:
BTW which prison is it your S2K is parked infront of?

[awinskill]

Quote

Originally posted by N-a-$-t-Y

LOL, thats Brighton Marina in the background, boats and white chalky cliffs... where my sister and best friend live. :) nice, but exclusive

Ups. Thumnail makes it look like a prison. Now that's value for money.... ;)

[Turtle]

At any sane speed the spoilers on the S2k are for show. Certainly won't effect low speed handling. (Were you changing gear when the back twitched?)

At high speed (I'd guess into 3 figures...) it might make a minor difference.

The aerodynamics of the S2k, being an open car don't promote lift to any great extent anyway.

The ITR's spolier only starts working above 50mph and is only really effective from 80mph. It doesn't produce downforce - it just reduces rear end lift and keeps the lift front to back balanced. (The ITR is lowered as well to help reduce lift and lower the roll centre.)

At the end of the day I very much doubt you'd notice any difference from the body kit. But if you like it for looks, go ahead and get it - just don't expect any handling differences.

-Brian.

[awinskill]

I believe there are only two production cars with rear wings that generate downforce. The Exige and the Noble M12.

I've been out in an Exige as it is very very noticable. At high speed it feels stuck to the road more than at low speeds. It squats under the downforce. The problem with aerodynamic downforce is that it doesn't work well in corners.... :eek:

Seems strange after watching F1 but it's true, you've got to be going fast enough for the wing to be effective and there's very few cars which can hold the corners to make it so.... Also the wing starts to make an angle against the airflow which further causes problems. If the Exige didn't have the defuser to counter this it would be undrivable.

Oh and when the aerodynamic downforce disappears you're relying on the mechanical grip of the tyres..... If you were going fast enough for the wing to be effective then I'd be surprised if the tyres could hold on.... :eek:

The best aerodynamics on a production car come from the underside of the car and how the air exits from the rear. A defuser and a gurney strip will keep most really high performance cars stuck down...

[Dog Biscuit]

Evo VI has an adjustable rear wing (4 settings). Someone did a test with it in the flatter position (speed) and steeper angled position (rear downforce)

Lap time was overall quicker with flat position, but section of lap with curves was quicker due to more grip and ability to pick up extra tenths through curves.

[ianl]

Hey, Mr. Biscuit!

For some reason, your email address is not accepting mail (its all bouncing back to me) - so, at the risk of boring / confusing the rest of the s2k community, my reply to your email of yesterday:

....if it was me, I would fing the potential to get my hands on the car NOW very tempting.

However, with my (infrequently used) sensible head on -

[Dog Biscuit]

Thanks Ian!

I am now wondering if anybody out there knows of the cheapest S2k available new from 1st Sept. Although I can spend