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K20a Swap is it really possible? i tried to search

#1 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 09:33 PM

before you guys yell at me, i tried searching but the button up top next to Mys2k doesnt work for me i click it and it animates like i clicked it but nothing happens, then that box at the top right hand corner that says search forums i enter my search in there and a page loads but its just the main page that loads

so any help whould be appreciated

ok so iv been looking around on some forums trying to decide on what kind of car i want, latley iv been seeing some talk of an adapter plate to be able to put a k series motor into a S2k

now some people might say why whould you put a lesser hp motor into your car, but semi built k24/k20 motors are making 270whp n/a easy, fully built they can make 300whp n/a

and you could sell your stock f20c/f22c and use that money to fund the purchase and building of the new motor, you might need to add a little cash depending on how crazy you go



any help on this subject whould be greatly appreciated

because to tell you the truth this kind of excites me to have 270+rwhp in an S, im sure you could build an f20 to this power but for 3 times the amount of money



again thanks for any help

#2 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 09:41 PM

o and i was just thinking

people that are goin to say that the intake manifold, throttle body points the wrong way, my answer at least is individual throttle bodies, or maybe i dont know if a s2k mani whould fit


and im guessing maybe you could adapt a k pro system to work? maybe

#3 User is offline   Slows2k 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 09:42 PM

The blocks are similar, but the K20 lacks any mounting bosses for the S2k's engine mounts. The S2k's trans mounting bolt pattern is different from the K as well.


It's not a practical swap.
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#4 User is offline   mugenrsx 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 09:45 PM

With the money spent on the K24/K20 swap, you could build a 300whp S2K. You'd need to change out a number of things, it wouldn't be worth it in the end unless you have bottomless pockets.
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#5 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:05 PM

Quote

The blocks are similar, but the K20 lacks any mounting bosses for the S2k's engine mounts. The S2k's trans mounting bolt pattern is different from the K as well.


It's not a practical swap.



you mean the mounting points for the motor are in different spots?

and im aware about the trans mounting points thats why i asked about an adapter plate


and why isnt it a practical swap?

This post has been edited by CarBoN: 06 December 2005 - 10:06 PM


#6 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:07 PM

Quote

With the money spent on the K24/K20 swap, you could build a 300whp S2K. You'd need to change out a number of things, it wouldn't be worth it in the end unless you have bottomless pockets.


actually not iv seen people spend 6-7 grand n/a on an s2000 motor and they are not making anywhere near 300 whp

you spend 6-7 grand on a k24/k20 swap and you will be for damn sure


and what things whould you need to swap out for the swap to work?

#7 User is offline   Slows2k 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:10 PM

There are no mounting bosses on the side of the block, where the mounts attach on a s2k.

The K motors mount from the timing chain case, and the transmission on a FWD car.

It's not practical because you can't mount a K motor in the S2k chassis easily. The intake manifold would put the thottle body against the firewall, not to mention the wiring differences between the 2 chassis.

#8 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:15 PM

makes sense


ok scratch that


how bout this, could you use the crank and related parts out of a k24 with upgraded rods and pistons and other misc bottom end parts, and put a k20a head on a f motor?

of course there whould need to be some custom wiring to be done, and whould use a krpo with this setup

#9 User is offline   Slows2k 

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 10:21 PM

The timing chain drives are different between the K motor and the F20C. The heads will not swap.

If you wanted a 2.4L S2k, it's been done. But the RPM limit of a K24 is much lower than a S2k. You'd have a very torquey S2k, 91MM stoke on a K24 (IIRC) The car would have the wrong gearing to use the power effectively.

if you want to spend 6K, buy a SC kit and be done with it.

#10 User is offline   CypherAZ 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 02:22 AM

Quote

actually not iv seen people spend 6-7 grand n/a on an s2000 motor and they are not making anywhere near 300 whp

you spend 6-7 grand on a k24/k20 swap and you will be for damn sure


and what things whould you need to swap out for the swap to work?

Who said anything about n/a? Also $6000-7000 wont get you a n/a 300whp k20/k24.

This post has been edited by CypherAZ: 07 December 2005 - 02:22 AM

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#11 User is online   smile 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 02:27 AM

why bother, just supercharge the s2000 motor.

#12 User is offline   CypherAZ 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 02:32 AM

$4386.25 + PRC Intake Manifold + Tuning = 217.5whp

http://forums.clubrs...ad.php?t=339104

300whp? Ha

#13 User is offline   james bond 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 02:34 AM

You guys do realize that atleast ONE of the reasons that the K20/24 are making 220-270 WHP is that they are in a FWD CAR?

Stick a common 215WHP F20C in a FWD layout (not a good idea) car and watch it lay down 250-260.


FWD and RWD WHP is always going to be different.

I have seen a few K20's do a good 230WHP with a DTR header. The F20C will come around. I remeber when they said "We just cant make anymore power with the b18C1 its to good from the factory" and look at them now.

This post has been edited by james bond: 07 December 2005 - 02:36 AM


#14 User is offline   ADAM_ROB_UK 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 04:07 AM

excuse me if im wrong but every one seems to have over looked one MAJOR problem....

the F20c/F22c rotate the opposite way from the k24/k20

i cant remember which one rotates which way but im pretty sure they rotate oppostie ways.


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#15 User is offline   Slows2k 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 08:18 AM

The K motors and the F20C rotate the same direction.(clockwise) Earlier Honda engines rotate the opposite direction.

#16 User is offline   brent_strong 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 09:49 AM

Quote

You guys do realize that atleast ONE of the reasons that the K20/24 are making 220-270 WHP is that they are in a FWD CAR?

Stick a common 215WHP F20C in a FWD layout (not a good idea) car and watch it lay down 250-260.


FWD and RWD WHP is always going to be different.

I have seen a few K20's do a good 230WHP with a DTR header. The F20C will come around. I remeber when they said "We just cant make anymore power with the b18C1 its to good from the factory" and look at them now.

Drivetrain loss for FWD is usually estimated at around 15%, for RWD, it is only around 17-18%. Your numbers are wildly off. Also, if you want to add a torsen limited slip differential to the FWD transmission, the percentages will be even closer.

#17 User is offline   ADAM_ROB_UK 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:53 AM

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The K motors and the F20C rotate the same direction.(clockwise) Earlier Honda engines rotate the opposite direction.

:thumbup: thanks for that Slows i will remember that

#18 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 11:59 AM

ok so if drivtrain loss between fwd and rwd is so close, how come people are making sooo much more wheel horspower with k series motors then with f series?


there seems to be the same amount of parts available for each motor, and people are making very high wheel horspower numbers with k series for much less money

i mean i can build a k24/k20 motor to 275whp for less then 7 grand including the price of the head/block and trans


that will not happen on a f series motor

#19 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:02 PM

for the people that suggested goin boost, n/a all the way, 275+ all motor wheel horspower is nuts, all motor horspower is much differnet then turbo power

a 300 all motor wheel horspower S2000 will smoke a 300 wheel horspower turbo S2000, and it will do it making better gas mileage and be more reliable

#20 User is offline   kayvan_pour 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 12:32 PM

Quote

ok so if drivtrain loss between fwd and rwd is so close, how come people are making sooo much more wheel horspower with k series motors then with f series?


there seems to be the same amount of parts available for each motor, and people are making very high wheel horspower numbers with k series for much less money

i mean i can build a k24/k20 motor to 275whp for less then 7 grand including the price of the head/block and trans


that will not happen on a f series motor

wow... First off, listening to a bunch of people on club rsx saying there motor is more powerful isn't a good idea. I have worked some with the motor. My cousin has the type-r k20 and 6 speed tranny from japan in his hatch. He has a ton of bolt on's and everything is top of the line (i mean tons of cash). He's making 203 rwhp. Goes to show what happens in reality.

And why would you ever want to swap out your motor for a k-series? The f20/22ca can make more power n/a and forced induction. Your just seeing better gains out of the k-series right now because there is allot more research and development out for that motor. But in the long run the f20/f22c will always be able to make more power. Wisconsins2k and my self have had this discussion many times in the street encounter forum. The biggest thing your seeing right now holding back the s2k is research and development.


Put it like this, if you ever did some how put the k-series motor is the s2k, you would need to: Put on a racing header, full exhaust, top of the line intake, and get a hondata or k-pro ecu just to be able to be at the same power level as stock f20/f22c... Does this make any sense to you????


And for the the n/a power vrs. fi power. That is a shitty argument. Lets say you did some how get this swap done and get the 300 whp out of it n/a. THat would run you around the $10,000 range... Give me 10k to spend on a F/I system for my car and I'll be putting over 500 rhwp. And run around the n/a set up all day. Does this make sense to you??? Yes 300 na is better than 300 f/i. But you would get sooooooooooo much more than 300 rwhp f/i with all the money you want to blow.


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#21 User is offline   sach 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 06:42 PM

I know for A FACT that the K20a will not make 270 anywhere near close to "easy"

So far as I have experienced:

High Lift camshaft
strengthened valve springs
race header (no cat)
70mm race exhaust
Cold air intake
ECU reprogram (KRPO)

barely, just barely breaking 220-225.

that is $3,570 in parts, not including shipping.

The K-series has a limit on how far it can go N/A, and F/I for that matter. Which is one of the reasons I'm selling my type s.

if your looking for power, you would be way better off getting forged internals, new sleeves, headgasket, and piecing your own turbo kit. spend $7,000 on your f2 and make 330-400 rwhp.

rwd > fwd.

#22 User is offline   Eluded 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 07:39 PM

If it was easy Honda wouldn't have gone against the grain by using the F20c.




#23 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 09:26 PM

if you want high n/a wheels horepower, get a k24 block, cunnigham rods, je pistons, 12:5.1 compression, few little things in the block like acl bearings etc, just to be safe

you get a cometic headgasket, you get cams from ips called kme's, valvetrain, and some twm 50mm individual throttle bodies
of course a supporting fuel system

and a kpro


now if you know where to shop, and how to find deals and dont jus go to the first place you find or the COOL shop to go to on the internet, then you can build this motor including the price of the head, block and transmission for under 8 grand

the motor mentioned above will make well over 275 whp, closer to 295

#24 User is offline   Slows2k 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 09:33 PM

As long as you put it in a FWD car you'll be fine.

I'll stick with my used SC that makes 295whp, all for under 4k.

#25 User is offline   CarBoN 

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Posted 07 December 2005 - 09:45 PM

im not saying i whould put that motor in an S, if i built that motor id put it in a type r like mine

an S id probally end up turboing if i wanted real power

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