F20C1 vs F20C2
04-12-2009, 03:34 AM
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F20C1 vs F20C2
Does anyone know the difference between those two?
The USDM engine 2000-2003 has the F20C1 engine. My car is EDM 2004, AP2 look, but has F20C2 engine, and VIN code as include AP1. That because Europe only got F20 engine until 2009 and still marked as AP1. Thw question is: is there a difference between both? I compared it with a friend of mine who has the F20C1, so far only the gears seem to be a little shorter (F20C1)
F20C1 1st gear is around 65 km/h 40.3 mph
F20C2 1st gear is around 70 km/h 43.5 mph
Is there HP difference? Gear ratios? Differential?
We didn't race yet.
Thank you guys,
The USDM engine 2000-2003 has the F20C1 engine. My car is EDM 2004, AP2 look, but has F20C2 engine, and VIN code as include AP1. That because Europe only got F20 engine until 2009 and still marked as AP1. Thw question is: is there a difference between both? I compared it with a friend of mine who has the F20C1, so far only the gears seem to be a little shorter (F20C1)
F20C1 1st gear is around 65 km/h 40.3 mph
F20C2 1st gear is around 70 km/h 43.5 mph
Is there HP difference? Gear ratios? Differential?
We didn't race yet.
Thank you guys,
04-12-2009, 05:28 AM
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It's true that the major difference is in F22C. But even if there is one minor difference between F20C1 and F20C2, I would like to know it. Is there an article or reference for that. I checked another forum online, they said the F20C (JDM) has 11.7:1 CR. F20C2(EDM) 11.3:1 CR and the F20C1(USDM) 11.0:1 CR
Could that be true?
Could that be true?
04-12-2009, 07:17 AM
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https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...0&#entry9936923
^^Posted by Lionheart
^^Posted by SpitfireS
^^Posted by SOHCmyDOHC
I have to agree with the previous remark from Germany. I drove both the F20C1 (MY03 from Germany) and 2 F20C2's (MY04 and MY05) and IMO the F20C2 is noticably better in the low rpm's.
Even when both car's are at the same very low rpm, the C2 will pull harder IMO. It could have something to do with the gearing, but the C2 is the second evolution (revision) version of the F20C also, so I think they changed things on the engine and engine computer too, otherwise it would not be called the C2 I guess.
Even when both car's are at the same very low rpm, the C2 will pull harder IMO. It could have something to do with the gearing, but the C2 is the second evolution (revision) version of the F20C also, so I think they changed things on the engine and engine computer too, otherwise it would not be called the C2 I guess.
My S2000 was also imported from Germany.
Imported into the Netherlands.
In the German manual its stated at the Technische Daten, page 277, that the compression ration is 11.0 : 1
In the manual they don't mention horsepower or top speed.
They do however mention that the F20C1 (so I guess it is sold in Europe somewhere?) needs super unleaded with minimum of 95 RON and the F20C2 needs super unleaded with a minimum of 98 RON.
The label inside the gas cap cover of my car states it needs RON 98.
Imported into the Netherlands.
In the German manual its stated at the Technische Daten, page 277, that the compression ration is 11.0 : 1
In the manual they don't mention horsepower or top speed.
They do however mention that the F20C1 (so I guess it is sold in Europe somewhere?) needs super unleaded with minimum of 95 RON and the F20C2 needs super unleaded with a minimum of 98 RON.
The label inside the gas cap cover of my car states it needs RON 98.
I think the EDM ones had 11.3:1 CR and the JDM ones had 11.7:1 CR (VGS model?)
I remember seeing it on one of my JDM catalogues. As far as nomenclature dunno if the EDM ones were C2
I remember seeing it on one of my JDM catalogues. As far as nomenclature dunno if the EDM ones were C2
04-12-2009, 12:33 PM
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The 11.0:1 in the german manual referenced above sounds like they forgot to update the listed CR from the older motor, because otherwise, why would they say the newer motor need higher octane and reference both? If they did show the updated CR, they probably would have listed both. It lists both for the octane, so it seems to be a dual-purpose manual. Does that make sense?
04-12-2009, 11:00 PM
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ace123, let me summarize for you:
I have the EDM F20C2 Engine 2004+ second generation chassis but the VIN is still AP1. Also the 2008 model in Germany and UK are AP1, but I read that they have the Carbon Fiber Transmission which was introduced in 2004. So the material changed but the ratios remained the same.
I have the EDM F20C2 Engine 2004+ second generation chassis but the VIN is still AP1. Also the 2008 model in Germany and UK are AP1, but I read that they have the Carbon Fiber Transmission which was introduced in 2004. So the material changed but the ratios remained the same.
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04-13-2009, 07:32 AM
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^^Not carbon Fiber...Carbon or carbon coated synchros. As apposed to the earlier brass synchros. 2nd-6th gears are carbon(or carbon coated) while 1st and reverse are still brass.
04-13-2009, 07:37 AM
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It's pretty typical for the European and Japanese versions to run different compression because of the different gas that's available there. So it may technically produce a bit more power.
04-13-2009, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by kaissi,Apr 12 2009, 06:34 AM
Does anyone know the difference between those two?
The USDM engine 2000-2003 has the F20C1 engine. My car is EDM 2004, AP2 look, but has F20C2 engine, and VIN code as include AP1. That because Europe only got F20 engine until 2009 and still marked as AP1. Thw question is: is there a difference between both? I compared it with a friend of mine who has the F20C1, so far only the gears seem to be a little shorter (F20C1)
F20C1 1st gear is around 65 km/h 40.3 mph
F20C2 1st gear is around 70 km/h 43.5 mph
Is there HP difference? Gear ratios? Differential?
We didn't race yet.
Thank you guys,
The USDM engine 2000-2003 has the F20C1 engine. My car is EDM 2004, AP2 look, but has F20C2 engine, and VIN code as include AP1. That because Europe only got F20 engine until 2009 and still marked as AP1. Thw question is: is there a difference between both? I compared it with a friend of mine who has the F20C1, so far only the gears seem to be a little shorter (F20C1)
F20C1 1st gear is around 65 km/h 40.3 mph
F20C2 1st gear is around 70 km/h 43.5 mph
Is there HP difference? Gear ratios? Differential?
We didn't race yet.
Thank you guys,
The F20C2 behaves very much like the F22C engine. Most people thought the F20C1 and F20C2 are relatively the same, but from my experience, that's not the case.
The VTEC kick-in is smoother in both F20C2 and F22C, relative to hte F20C1. Also, the low-end torque is quite good on the F20C2. To be honest, I couldn't feel there is a major (if any) difference between my current F20C2 and my previous F22C. I actually think the extra 200cc making more torque is a bit of a marketing gimmick -- just my personal feeling. The F20C2 engine supposedly uses stronger valve retainers, etc that the F22C engine uses. Also the fuel mapping and/or timing may be different as well, and most likely very close to the F22C's.
With that said, I'm not sure why the gearing thing came up. From my understanding, the F20C2 equipped AP1s also kept the same gear ratios as F20C1 cars. However, I have never done a back to back test myself. But the F20C2 cars have stronger carbon synchros while keepnig the 14lb flywheel, and also have the CDV.