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s2000 with iVTEC f20 dyno on pg 31 and f22 dbw on pg 45

#1 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 09:19 PM

i was just curious if anyone has an s2000 with iVTEC? head swap, motor swap or whatever. it seems like it would be such a valuable thing to put on an S2000 for road racing or even cruising around the street. sorry to ask if this has been posted before but i'm just curious if anyone has it on an S2000?

This post has been edited by d-craft: 07 November 2010 - 12:50 PM

Gary C

#2 User is offline   CarbonYellowJ's 

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:00 PM

I would really like to have it but I have not heard of anyone doing it yet. A K24 with an iVTEC head would be really sweet in a S2000. I don't know how similar the heads are but I can imagine that swapping in a K-series block would not be an easy task.
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#3 User is offline   the s2k dude 

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Posted 03 July 2009 - 10:16 PM

i know the k series bottoms can take an f20/22 head fairly easily... i dont think itll go the other way around tho.

im assuming someone woulda jumped on that if it was worth it because this is a topic that comes up often
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#4 User is offline   LostMotion 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 12:04 PM

It's almost impossible to do without making major changes to the motor. The issue is that the F has an idler gear that spins the cams instead of on the K where the cams are driven directly. Therefore there is really no room in an F to put a system in -- not to mention the K system would be completely incompatible.

They did it that way for a reason because having the idler gear in the middle is better for reliability at high RPMs like in a race situation whereas the VTC system is really not that useful on a track because you only use a narrow part of the powerband during a race.

HKS makes aftermarket VTC systems for a number of cars, most notably the R34 Skyline, but that car uses a similar system to the K to spin the cams and there is much more room for the system.
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#5 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 01:35 PM

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It's almost impossible to do without making major changes to the motor. The issue is that the F has an idler gear that spins the cams instead of on the K where the cams are driven directly. Therefore there is really no room in an F to put a system in -- not to mention the K system would be completely incompatible.

They did it that way for a reason because having the idler gear in the middle is better for reliability at high RPMs like in a race situation whereas the VTC system is really not that useful on a track because you only use a narrow part of the powerband during a race.

HKS makes aftermarket VTC systems for a number of cars, most notably the R34 Skyline, but that car uses a similar system to the K to spin the cams and there is much more room for the system.

i hear you on a lot of what you are saying but I can also see the value in VTC for road racing especially on exit of a turn. it's not so much the horsepower as it is the flat torque curve. a matter of fact that goes for a street car as well. You are right though it would be hard to convert iVTEC on an s2k but it is something that is worth the cost. well... assuming you are under a few $K$ to convert it. haha I've seen plenty of chain driven cams run into the 9000 so i don't think that is the issue but i will say thing, the way the s2k cam sprockets are designed is genius! so i take it no one has an s2000 with iVTEC?

#6 User is offline   JuicedS2K 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 02:37 PM

correct me if i'm wrong, but i really dont think you can put in f-head on a k20 or k24, you cant even put certain k-series heads on a k24 either, i.e you cant put a k20a3 head on top of a k24a4, clearence issues wont allow. only a k20a2 head or you need new pistons in the k24.

#7 User is offline   ABCVTEC 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 10:58 PM

S2000s have iVTEC. Just not from factory.

Header + Tune + VTEC at 4200 RPM = iVTEC
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#8 User is offline   CarbonYellowJ's 

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Posted 04 July 2009 - 11:03 PM

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S2000s have iVTEC. Just not from factory.

Header + Tune + VTEC at 4200 RPM = iVTEC

Yeah having the VTEC engagement point lowered really helps but iVTEC is a much more adjustable animal. You can adjust cam timing for a lot of situations. Too bad it was developed in the generation after the F2XC was created.

I will agree though that the gear driven cam setup on the S2000 is amazing and superior to most other designs.

#9 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 02:47 PM

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Yeah having the VTEC engagement point lowered really helps but iVTEC is a much more adjustable animal. You can adjust cam timing for a lot of situations. Too bad it was developed in the generation after the F2XC was created.

I will agree though that the gear driven cam setup on the S2000 is amazing and superior to most other designs.

i agree, lowering the VTEC will help in the low to mid range. but the vtc cam sprocket is a whole different world of power. my way of explaining it is like this, you can jump the factory intake cam sprocket a full tooth advanced and it will make bottom end power but the problem becomes the car not being able to idle. with VTC you don't lose the car's idle and it's like jumping the intake cam sprocket two teeth (20-25 degrees adv) to help the bottom to mid range tq and hp. vtc would make a ton of power whether it's NA or turbo. it seems like you have to spend so much money just to get single digit horsepower out of an NA engine yet VTC could make double digits no problem at all. just my thoughts.

#10 User is offline   ABCVTEC 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 04:36 PM

Oh jeez I just realized you're Gary from Design Craft. Well if anyone can it should be you :p VTC for sure would be an advantage, I just think nobody on here has tried it yet because most people aren't full on road racers and this would be something that would involve a lot of custom work, time, and money.

I think the easiest way to make this work would be to get a K20 head on the F20 block. If there was a way to modify the F20 head to use the VTC system that would be nice but due to things lining up and space I just don't see it possible.

I know there is a build out there with a H22 block and K20 head, and given the similarities between the F20 and H22 block it should be possible. Using a modified K timing chain (I believe the K deck height is taller), crankshaft, and k20 head it should be possible.

Some of my random thoughts:

- This wouldn't be worth it unless you made a custom intake manifold or could get the S2000 IM to bolt onto the K head.

- You would want head work and larger valves in the K head as they are smaller than the F20 head

- A lot more aftermarket cam choices with the K series head

- Would want to use the K20A head as it has 3 cam lobes on intake and exhaust.

- The K series and F series head gasket are the same part number

If you wanna assemble my F24C block you can borrow it for research LOL

#11 User is offline   midnightsunset 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 04:47 PM

Funny this question was brought up again as I have made some amazing progress in converting my F20C to I-Vtec

I started a blog on it in HT

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#12 User is offline   ABCVTEC 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 04:49 PM

That's so messed up :[

#13 User is offline   midnightsunset 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 05:01 PM

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That's so messed up :[

:pat:

#14 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 05:30 PM

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Oh jeez I just realized you're Gary from Design Craft. Well if anyone can it should be you :p VTC for sure would be an advantage, I just think nobody on here has tried it yet because most people aren't full on road racers and this would be something that would involve a lot of custom work, time, and money.

I think the easiest way to make this work would be to get a K20 head on the F20 block. If there was a way to modify the F20 head to use the VTC system that would be nice but due to things lining up and space I just don't see it possible.

I know there is a build out there with a H22 block and K20 head, and given the similarities between the F20 and H22 block it should be possible. Using a modified K timing chain (I believe the K deck height is taller), crankshaft, and k20 head it should be possible.

Some of my random thoughts:

- This wouldn't be worth it unless you made a custom intake manifold or could get the S2000 IM to bolt onto the K head.

- You would want head work and larger valves in the K head as they are smaller than the F20 head

- A lot more aftermarket cam choices with the K series head

- Would want to use the K20A head as it has 3 cam lobes on intake and exhaust.

- The K series and F series head gasket are the same part number

If you wanna assemble my F24C block you can borrow it for research LOL

hahaha. thank for the compliment and the great info. I started this thread for two reasons. one, to see if anyone has an s2000 with iVTEC and two, see if s2000 owners wanted it. Believe it or not, I think i got it to work on an S2000. it took a few months but we'll see if it fires up in the next few weeks. oh and btw the F and K head gaskets are different. sucks :(

#15 User is offline   moogleii 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 05:35 PM

Actually I've always wondered about this, too. I'm definitely interested hehe. Do it!!

#16 User is offline   LostMotion 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 07:16 PM

Having played with cam gears quite a bit, I don't think having variable cam timing on the intake would be very advantageous considering the cost to get a system working. I certainly wouldn't buy a system.

#17 User is offline   ABCVTEC 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 10:14 PM

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hahaha. thank for the compliment and the great info. I started this thread for two reasons. one, to see if anyone has an s2000 with iVTEC and two, see if s2000 owners wanted it. Believe it or not, I think i got it to work on an S2000. it took a few months but we'll see if it fires up in the next few weeks. oh and btw the F and K head gaskets are different. sucks :(

Oh wow awesome. They are different? That does suck =[ Did you do this by using a K series head or swapping out the gear driven parts of the F20 head and using a different chain? I must know!

#18 User is offline   chris_barry 

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Posted 05 July 2009 - 10:41 PM

The F20 and K20 head gaskets are not the same.

They have the same bore/bolt positions but different shaped outer periphery on the block. It would run but would not hold water or oil.

Better option would be to use a custom adapter plate to fit a K20 or K24 up to a F20 gearbox. That way you run stock K series head/block setup.

I've tuned k24 and K20 motors with VTC. Very nice how you can move the inlet camshaft advance on the fly to stretch out the power band. Also, they idle like a pussy.

As far as the question goes, It would be possible to put a K20 head on a F20 block and get it running if you tried hard enough. This would probably involve a completely custom timing chain setup, covers, external oil taps for the VTC oil feeds and a lot of welding of the head so it would seal up with the F20 block. It really depends on how much you want to try.

On the other hand a k20 or K24 transplant would be a comparatively simple task and easily transferable to another K20 after a blow up.

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#19 User is offline   Siggy 

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:57 AM

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hahaha. thank for the compliment and the great info. I started this thread for two reasons. one, to see if anyone has an s2000 with iVTEC and two, see if s2000 owners wanted it. Believe it or not, I think i got it to work on an S2000. it took a few months but we'll see if it fires up in the next few weeks. oh and btw the F and K head gaskets are different. sucks :(

i request a build thread or something ASAP

#20 User is offline   ABCVTEC 

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 01:13 AM

Build thread won't be necessary. When he gets it running it'll be all over turbomagazine.com again haha

#21 User is offline   EVAN&MONICA 

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 11:30 AM

Is there any plausable advantage for doing this over just doing a Vafc (or other) Tune and just lowering :vtec: to around 4k?
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#22 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:10 PM

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i request a build thread or something ASAP

i would love to do a build thread but but my problem is there are too many china knock off companies that would get a head start on what i am making. honestly, I tired of a lot of knock off companies using others peoples ideas and R&D to make themselves a dime. sorry to rant but i will post dyno sheets and a few pics without trying to reveal too much.

#23 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:12 PM

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Build thread won't be necessary. When he gets it running it'll be all over turbomagazine.com again haha

funny you should say that. actually D Sport has dibs on the full story but I can give away small bits of info on it to you guys.

#24 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:17 PM

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Is there any plausable advantage for doing this over just doing a Vafc (or other) Tune and just lowering :vtec: to around 4k?

I'm sure what you are talking about would work but VTC is a complete different power adder.imagine VTC as an adjustable cam sprocket that is constantly getting adjusted throughout the power band.

#25 User is offline   d-craft 

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Posted 06 July 2009 - 12:30 PM

[QUOTE=LostMotion,Jul 5 2009, 04:16 PM]Having played with cam gears quite a bit, I don't think having variable cam timing on the intake would be very advantageous considering the cost to get a system working.

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