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Do not use bolt in "roll cages" This is why:

#1 User is offline   Fyrestrike 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 09:29 AM

Before: Posted Image

After: Posted Image

How it happened:

Posted Image

Take a close look at the down bars of the rollcage puncturing through the floor board on the last frame.

Here it is on the flat bed:

Posted Image

I've had conversations with some of you on various occasions concerning the safety of these things and figured I'd post this for educational reasons. I always advise against using these cages on street cars without full harnesses because if there is an incident, the occupants will be severely injured by the cage itself and are not protected from surface abrasions with a race suit.

Also, when comparing welded cages vs. bolted people argue about the strength difference where bars meet other bars and that there is little difference between a bolted connection and a welded one. Well there is, and it shows not only on the bar to bar connections but also on the bar to body connections. Clearly in this case you can see that the real importance is where the cage connects to the car, even if the cage stays in tact the system can still fail if the cage is not connected to the car adequately.

On a welded cage, small boxes are constructed at the downpoints of the cage that tie the structural framerails/sills of the car to the rollcage directly. This ensures that when the cage takes a shock, it transfers the load to the strongest areas of the unibody to prevent situations as shown above.

The windshield header and A/B/C pillars on most unibody cars are NOT designed to withstand a rollover such as the one shown above. Bolt-in roll cages are not designed to supplement this and prevent a total collapse, this is why: Bolted cages use backing plates at the downbar locations (4-6-8 point, etc) which are designed to distribute the load to the unibody. The problem is that they bolt to the floorboards which are not designed to withstand ANY load at all, point or spread. The result is the sharp edged pipe (relatively) will penetrate the backing plate and the floorboard or (as is the case above) the pipe pushes the backing plate through the thin floorboard.

Please keep these things in mind when you're modding your cars in hopes of one day bringing them to the track, typically all these bolt in "monkey bars" do is strengthen the chassis up a bit.

In our case with the S2000:

A) The car is not lacking chassis stiffness, adding these bars won't make you appreciably faster.
B) The windshield header and roll hoops are designed to prevent passenger compartment collapse, they are sufficient for light track duty and will not endanger passengers.
C) The car looks great already, if you want to look more like a race car get a hard top.

:hello:
Posted Image
F20C Miata Build Thread
Oversteer is when the passengers are scared, Understeer is when the driver is scared.
Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car.

#2 User is offline   Fyrestrike 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 09:42 AM

Some pictures of the cage boxes on my F20C Miata:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#3 User is offline   S2KSuzuka 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 10:05 AM

Well put......
Mitch
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#4 User is offline   Birel186 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 10:55 AM

had to be a mustang.
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My future office
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#5 User is offline   jimreaper 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:02 AM

Good stuff. Thanks .

#6 User is offline   RENDERMAN 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:11 AM

I guess the sign on the rear bumper didn't help....

Posted Image

#7 User is offline   spectacle 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 11:34 AM

ROFL classic!!!!!
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image
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#8 User is offline   MidnightS 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 12:38 PM

So... what happened to the dude inside?
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#9 User is offline   Fyrestrike 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 01:15 PM

Quote

So... what happened to the dude inside?

They both survived somehow...

#10 User is offline   oscar_driver 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:06 PM

BS, Roll Cages are safe!





























:lalala: JK, when I see those monkey bars i get scared about people faces/brains blowing on them since they are so pretty yet unsafe not even covered by any cushion material . leave alone the driver has no helmet on .....

Lucky Rustang drivers ... Thanks Alex, good stuff man!

Oacar
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#11 User is offline   oscar_driver 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:27 PM

:ignore:

Posted Image

#12 User is offline   S2K Medic 

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 02:43 PM

:hello:
Posted Image

#13 User is offline   VeilSide AP1 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 09:07 AM

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had to be a mustang.

:roflmao:
"If you got haters, your doing something right"
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#14 User is offline   foxer10 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 09:49 AM

Quote

Posted Image

You can see the cage popping out of the floor... that sucks! Nice chop top!

#15 User is offline   Mor.gan 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:55 PM

Quote

B) The windshield header and roll hoops are designed to prevent passenger compartment collapse, they are sufficient for light track duty and will not endanger passengers.


Unless you are taller than 5'10 then they are do nothing for you.


No one will steal my car. I shit in my hand and smear it on the steer wheeling and seats. Brown Interior FTW!!

#16 User is offline   fallen612 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 02:23 PM

thats crazy!! i hope the driver got out ok.
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#17 User is offline   vollrathian 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 03:51 PM

thats some nice welding
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#18 User is offline   Fyrestrike 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 04:04 PM

Quote

Unless you are taller than 5'10 then they are do nothing for you.

The roll hoops are there incase the windshield header fails. I've never seen the header fail, if it doesn't draw a line between the trunk and the top of the windshield and you'll see how tall you can be for factory roll protection... I'm sure it's more than 5'-10".

#19 User is offline   S2K Medic 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 04:13 PM

Quote

Unless you are taller than 5'10 then they are do nothing for you.

Remember, in japan the tallest man is almost 5'. Over 5'10" is just "Godzilla" status to them

#20 User is offline   Ajserrano 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:57 PM

Quote

Remember, in japan the tallest man is almost 5'. Over 5'10" is just "Godzilla" status to them

Lol
Posted Image

#21 User is offline   MMM.PWR 

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 07:00 PM

Quote

Remember, in japan the tallest man is almost 5'. Over 5'10" is just "Godzilla" status to them

does this thread scare you? :LOL: weld that thing!

#22 User is offline   camuman 

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 02:52 PM

showfag mod FTL.

stupid bolt in cages should be outlawed.
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#23 User is offline   Birel186 

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 06:33 PM

its really not fair to say bolt on cages are dangerous, it's POS, fake race, japanese tunner crap, rice w/e cages that are dangerous. Because the F430 GT in ALMS uses a bolt in cage... because you can't weld steel to an aluminum monocoque.

bitchesssssss

This post has been edited by Birel186: 05 November 2009 - 01:57 AM


#24 User is offline   Mor.gan 

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 07:26 PM

Quote

Because the F430 GT in ALMS uses a bolt in cage... because you can't weld steel to an aluminum monocoque.

Amazing how Ferrari couldn't figure out a way but Chevy did when they switched to GT2 and the ZR1's Aluminium Chassis.



#25 User is offline   Birel186 

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 08:56 PM

Quote

Amazing how Ferrari couldn't figure out a way but Chevy did when they switched to GT2 and the ZR1's Aluminium Chassis.

amazing how corvette made a race car (GT1) with direct injection but not the street car.

oh and then they don't read the rules when it says in GT2 you can run direct injection... if the street car runs it. So corvette was basically cheating for 1 or 2 races.

but who cares! cause Porsche still wins!
[URL=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brNtbaMadX4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brNtbaMadX4[/URL]

This post has been edited by Birel186: 04 November 2009 - 08:57 PM


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