03-07 Accord Calipers swap
11-20-2009, 07:07 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
03-07 Accord Calipers swap
This post is meant to be a comprehensive 03-07 Accord V6 or 01-03 Acura CL caliper swap info. If anyone has more info about these calipers, please add it here.
here is the original post but there's too much clutter in it that's not specific to the Accord calipers.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...f=193&t=721223
the 03-07 Accord V6 caliper is nearly identical to the 01-03 CL caliper. they both use the same bracket but the casting of the caliper is slightly different. the Accord caliper is much cheaper than the CL caliper.
the exact model i got is for a 2007 Accord Coupe V6 6-speed
Part # 45018-SDP-A01, 45019-SDP-A01
i got them from Majestic Honda www.hondaautomotiveparts.com
they were $70.88 each brand new (NOT re-manufacture), $163 shipped for both.
comparison between Accord caliper vs S2000 caliper
the Accord piston is 56.7mm and the S2000 piston is 54mm
the Accord caliper is 12.4 lbs and the S2000 is 9.4 lbs.
outside bracket clearance of OEM S2000 caliper and rotor, about 2mm
inside bracket clearance of OEM S2000 caliper and rotor, about 3mm
trimming the heat shield to fit the Accord bracket
S2000 rotor center line with the Accord caliper.
outside bracket clearance of Accord caliper and S2000 rotor , about 4.5mm
inside bracket clearance of Accord caliper and S2000 rotor , about 2.3mm
backing plate thickness vs outside gap.
the backing plate is 6.5mm and the gap is 4.5mm, difference of 2mm.
i think this would be fine for street use but i would not leave it like this for track.
if i can't find matching rotor (300x28) and have to stay with stock rotors, i will use spacers between the rotor and the hub to center the rotor to the bracket and reduce the outside gap.
787 pad for 03-07 Accord V6, this is the correct pad to use with this caliper.
503 pad for 98-02 Accord V6. although this pad will fit the 03-07 Accord caliper, the pad does sit a little higher than the rotor.
wheel clearance with OEM S2000 calipers on 5Zigen FN01R +42 offset, about 9.8mm
the pads had one track day and probably about 1.5-2mm worn. so new pads would be less clearance.
wheel clearance with 03-07 Accord V6 calipers on 5Zigen FN01R +42 offset, about 5.7mm. these are brand new pads.
comparison of S2000 caliper and Accord caliper after installed.
S2000 Rotor Specs
So, we need a rotor that's 300mm X 28mm with the height of 40mm or less. if the height is less than 40mm, then we can shim the bracket to center it to the rotor (this would be much easier than shimming the rotor). the Hub ring size is not that important because it would be very easy to enlarge the Hug ring.
2003 Accord V6 Rotor Specs
the Accord rotor is 7mm taller than the S2000 rotor. so we would have to shim the rotor to move it out. the shim would have to be 7mm + 1mm to center the stock s2000 rotor.
NSX 3.2L Rotor Specs
looks like the NSX rotor should work. it's about 4mm shorter than the S2000 rotor, so we would need a 4mm on the bracket - 1mm to center the rotor, so total shim would be 3mm on the bracket.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 11/29/09
************************************************** ********************
Finally got the custom rotor from Racing Brakes.
the rotor consist of S2000 hat with NSX rotor ring.
it's interesting that the RB 2 piece rotors are center mount, meaning that the mounting surface of the ring is in the center of the thickness of the disk. so even though the Accord/NSX ring is 3mm thicker than the s2000, that means that when mounted it's takes up 1.5mm on each side.
as you can see in the pictures, with the rotor mounted there is 3.1mm clearance on the outside and .84mm clearance on the inside. even though its close, i feel that this is fine for racing because there shouldn't be that much deflection in the rotors to make it rub. but i will still get my friend to cut me 1mm shims for the back of the hat to center the rotor better.
now that RB has the measurements, they will look in their inventory to see if they have a hat in stock that will fit better. if not, they will possible make a custom hat just for this application if there are enough interest.
notice that the NSX ring have Curved vanes. the vanes are also not a single piece that run from the inside to outside. there are actually two sets of vans. one set on the inside and one set of the outside and they are staggered. look at the pics.
the RB custom rotor is also 2 lbs lighter than the stock s2000 rotor.
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor. blue tape so i dont scratch it up in case i need to send it back. but it looks like these rotors are going to work out, so i'll be keeping them.
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, inside clearance .84 mm
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, outside clearance 3.1mm
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, inside clearance with pad shims
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, with Accord brake pads. even though the NSX rotor is 298 mm (s2000 300mm) the pad seems to fit nicely over the rotor. that will also means less weight. the RB rotor is 2 lbs lighter than the stock s2000 rotor.
Accord caliper with RB custom rotor
oem S2000 rotor vs RB custom rotor
notice how shallow the slots are on the RB rotor. the bottom of the slots are also flat, not rounded.
RB 2 piece rotors are center mount. mounting surface of the ring is center align to the ring
RB NXS ring have curved vanes with 2 sets of vanes. NSX ring are also 298 mm, not 300 mm like s2000 ring. but the pad seems to fit fine with the 298 mm ring. this also means less weight.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 12/5/09
************************************************** ********************
Finally got the other rotor from Racing Brakes and my friend finish the shims for me.
i have a set of 1mm shims and 1.5mm shims. the 1.5mm shims will align the rotor nearly perfect center but they cost a lot more to make. the 1mm shims are much cheaper to make.
i will get the custom hats once RB makes them so i don't have to use the shims. but it's still nice to have shims in case i need to use the OEM s2000 rotors. the RB 2-piece costs over $500, so i'm not going to buy a set to keep as a back up. if the 2-piece crack at the track, i'll just use the OEM rotor and shim to finish the day and order new rings when i get home.
i have one extra set of 1.5mm and several set of 1mm shims. they are 304 stainless. PM me if you want to pick up a set.
pics of 1mm shim
1mm shim on hub
1mm shim between hub and rotor hat
outside clearance, 2.5mm
inside clearance, 1.4 mm
bending brake line bracket so the line doesn't kink with the Accord caliper
didn't bolt up the brake line in the slot so the brake line doesn't kink. will see if i can find a better solution for this.
wheel clearance with 1.5mm shim between hub and rotor hat.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 2/2/10
************************************************** ********************
well, i have put about 500 street miles on the new setup with RB ET 500 pads for front and rear
all i can say is WOW, these street pads fells like race pads on the street. they fell like my Carbotech XP10 (as i always drove on street in XP10 and XP12). i can engage the ABS very easy. there's no brake noise from these pads and they have very low dust. i pushed the car very hard and the front rotors never got pass 500 F degree while the rear got up to 730 F. this is from about 50 brake cycle from 70mph to 20mph. this tells me that the front brakes are working much less than the rear and are also better at managing heat. the ambient air was round 50 degree. i have front brake ducts and rear heat shield removed.
these rotors are so hard that even after pushing the car this hard for so many miles, i can still see the factory surface grind marks on the rotors. they are made from high carbon with alloy cast iron and heat treat and last 3 times longer than stock rotors. usually when i replace new Carbotech pads with new oem replacement rotors, i can tell there's wear on the rotors just after bedding in the pads.
i have also got word from Racing Brakes that they have finish manufacturing the new custom rotors. these new custom 2-piece rotors will be direct bolt on with the Accord calipers and will have perfect offset without using shims. these rotors will only be available through RB direct and no other vendor.
RB has also allowed me to do a group buy on these new rotors. the first 3 rotors will arrive next week and the rest will arrive in 4-5 weeks. the group buy price will be announced once we have an estimate number of orders. of course the more orders the more savings. please PM me if you are interested in the group buy.
i can't wait to get the car on track in March, i hope there wont be any snow around by then.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 2/19/10
************************************************** ********************
here's are some pics of the Production 2-piece rotors for Accord calipers from Racing Brakes. the offset on the Accord calipers is perfect. NO shims required.
here is the original post but there's too much clutter in it that's not specific to the Accord calipers.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...f=193&t=721223
the 03-07 Accord V6 caliper is nearly identical to the 01-03 CL caliper. they both use the same bracket but the casting of the caliper is slightly different. the Accord caliper is much cheaper than the CL caliper.
the exact model i got is for a 2007 Accord Coupe V6 6-speed
Part # 45018-SDP-A01, 45019-SDP-A01
i got them from Majestic Honda www.hondaautomotiveparts.com
they were $70.88 each brand new (NOT re-manufacture), $163 shipped for both.
comparison between Accord caliper vs S2000 caliper
the Accord piston is 56.7mm and the S2000 piston is 54mm
the Accord caliper is 12.4 lbs and the S2000 is 9.4 lbs.
outside bracket clearance of OEM S2000 caliper and rotor, about 2mm
inside bracket clearance of OEM S2000 caliper and rotor, about 3mm
trimming the heat shield to fit the Accord bracket
S2000 rotor center line with the Accord caliper.
outside bracket clearance of Accord caliper and S2000 rotor , about 4.5mm
inside bracket clearance of Accord caliper and S2000 rotor , about 2.3mm
backing plate thickness vs outside gap.
the backing plate is 6.5mm and the gap is 4.5mm, difference of 2mm.
i think this would be fine for street use but i would not leave it like this for track.
if i can't find matching rotor (300x28) and have to stay with stock rotors, i will use spacers between the rotor and the hub to center the rotor to the bracket and reduce the outside gap.
787 pad for 03-07 Accord V6, this is the correct pad to use with this caliper.
503 pad for 98-02 Accord V6. although this pad will fit the 03-07 Accord caliper, the pad does sit a little higher than the rotor.
wheel clearance with OEM S2000 calipers on 5Zigen FN01R +42 offset, about 9.8mm
the pads had one track day and probably about 1.5-2mm worn. so new pads would be less clearance.
wheel clearance with 03-07 Accord V6 calipers on 5Zigen FN01R +42 offset, about 5.7mm. these are brand new pads.
comparison of S2000 caliper and Accord caliper after installed.
S2000 Rotor Specs
So, we need a rotor that's 300mm X 28mm with the height of 40mm or less. if the height is less than 40mm, then we can shim the bracket to center it to the rotor (this would be much easier than shimming the rotor). the Hub ring size is not that important because it would be very easy to enlarge the Hug ring.
2003 Accord V6 Rotor Specs
the Accord rotor is 7mm taller than the S2000 rotor. so we would have to shim the rotor to move it out. the shim would have to be 7mm + 1mm to center the stock s2000 rotor.
NSX 3.2L Rotor Specs
looks like the NSX rotor should work. it's about 4mm shorter than the S2000 rotor, so we would need a 4mm on the bracket - 1mm to center the rotor, so total shim would be 3mm on the bracket.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 11/29/09
************************************************** ********************
Finally got the custom rotor from Racing Brakes.
the rotor consist of S2000 hat with NSX rotor ring.
it's interesting that the RB 2 piece rotors are center mount, meaning that the mounting surface of the ring is in the center of the thickness of the disk. so even though the Accord/NSX ring is 3mm thicker than the s2000, that means that when mounted it's takes up 1.5mm on each side.
as you can see in the pictures, with the rotor mounted there is 3.1mm clearance on the outside and .84mm clearance on the inside. even though its close, i feel that this is fine for racing because there shouldn't be that much deflection in the rotors to make it rub. but i will still get my friend to cut me 1mm shims for the back of the hat to center the rotor better.
now that RB has the measurements, they will look in their inventory to see if they have a hat in stock that will fit better. if not, they will possible make a custom hat just for this application if there are enough interest.
notice that the NSX ring have Curved vanes. the vanes are also not a single piece that run from the inside to outside. there are actually two sets of vans. one set on the inside and one set of the outside and they are staggered. look at the pics.
the RB custom rotor is also 2 lbs lighter than the stock s2000 rotor.
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor. blue tape so i dont scratch it up in case i need to send it back. but it looks like these rotors are going to work out, so i'll be keeping them.
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, inside clearance .84 mm
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, outside clearance 3.1mm
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, inside clearance with pad shims
Accord bracket with RB custom rotor, with Accord brake pads. even though the NSX rotor is 298 mm (s2000 300mm) the pad seems to fit nicely over the rotor. that will also means less weight. the RB rotor is 2 lbs lighter than the stock s2000 rotor.
Accord caliper with RB custom rotor
oem S2000 rotor vs RB custom rotor
notice how shallow the slots are on the RB rotor. the bottom of the slots are also flat, not rounded.
RB 2 piece rotors are center mount. mounting surface of the ring is center align to the ring
RB NXS ring have curved vanes with 2 sets of vanes. NSX ring are also 298 mm, not 300 mm like s2000 ring. but the pad seems to fit fine with the 298 mm ring. this also means less weight.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 12/5/09
************************************************** ********************
Finally got the other rotor from Racing Brakes and my friend finish the shims for me.
i have a set of 1mm shims and 1.5mm shims. the 1.5mm shims will align the rotor nearly perfect center but they cost a lot more to make. the 1mm shims are much cheaper to make.
i will get the custom hats once RB makes them so i don't have to use the shims. but it's still nice to have shims in case i need to use the OEM s2000 rotors. the RB 2-piece costs over $500, so i'm not going to buy a set to keep as a back up. if the 2-piece crack at the track, i'll just use the OEM rotor and shim to finish the day and order new rings when i get home.
i have one extra set of 1.5mm and several set of 1mm shims. they are 304 stainless. PM me if you want to pick up a set.
pics of 1mm shim
1mm shim on hub
1mm shim between hub and rotor hat
outside clearance, 2.5mm
inside clearance, 1.4 mm
bending brake line bracket so the line doesn't kink with the Accord caliper
didn't bolt up the brake line in the slot so the brake line doesn't kink. will see if i can find a better solution for this.
wheel clearance with 1.5mm shim between hub and rotor hat.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 2/2/10
************************************************** ********************
well, i have put about 500 street miles on the new setup with RB ET 500 pads for front and rear
all i can say is WOW, these street pads fells like race pads on the street. they fell like my Carbotech XP10 (as i always drove on street in XP10 and XP12). i can engage the ABS very easy. there's no brake noise from these pads and they have very low dust. i pushed the car very hard and the front rotors never got pass 500 F degree while the rear got up to 730 F. this is from about 50 brake cycle from 70mph to 20mph. this tells me that the front brakes are working much less than the rear and are also better at managing heat. the ambient air was round 50 degree. i have front brake ducts and rear heat shield removed.
these rotors are so hard that even after pushing the car this hard for so many miles, i can still see the factory surface grind marks on the rotors. they are made from high carbon with alloy cast iron and heat treat and last 3 times longer than stock rotors. usually when i replace new Carbotech pads with new oem replacement rotors, i can tell there's wear on the rotors just after bedding in the pads.
i have also got word from Racing Brakes that they have finish manufacturing the new custom rotors. these new custom 2-piece rotors will be direct bolt on with the Accord calipers and will have perfect offset without using shims. these rotors will only be available through RB direct and no other vendor.
RB has also allowed me to do a group buy on these new rotors. the first 3 rotors will arrive next week and the rest will arrive in 4-5 weeks. the group buy price will be announced once we have an estimate number of orders. of course the more orders the more savings. please PM me if you are interested in the group buy.
i can't wait to get the car on track in March, i hope there wont be any snow around by then.
************************************************** ********************
UPDATE 2/19/10
************************************************** ********************
here's are some pics of the Production 2-piece rotors for Accord calipers from Racing Brakes. the offset on the Accord calipers is perfect. NO shims required.
11-20-2009, 07:16 PM
#2
Registered User
Thread Starter
here's some pads comparison
- top is Carbotech XP12
- bottom is OEM s2000
Notice the Carbotech pad has a curved radius towards the hat and the OEM does not. the Carbotech pad also has a large surface area.
- top is 787, 03-07 Accord V6
- second down is 503, 98-02 Accord V6
- third down is Carbotech XP12 S2000
- forth down is OEM S2000
it looks like the initial surface area of the 503 pad is larger because it doesn't have taper edge like the 787 pad.
- top is 787, 03-07 Accord V6
- second down is 503, 98-02 Accord V6
- third down is Carbotech XP12 S2000
did some tracing of the pads for comparison
pad surface area, 787 vs. 503.
backing plate. 787 vs. 503. looks like you can physically swap the pads but one will move the pad out farther.
pad surface area, 787 vs. 829 (s2000 pad)
not only the surface area is larger but the Accord pad is also thicker at 17.3mm vs. 15.8 mm. that means that i can probably go a whole race season on one set of pads and rotors. that would be so awesome
- top is Carbotech XP12
- bottom is OEM s2000
Notice the Carbotech pad has a curved radius towards the hat and the OEM does not. the Carbotech pad also has a large surface area.
- top is 787, 03-07 Accord V6
- second down is 503, 98-02 Accord V6
- third down is Carbotech XP12 S2000
- forth down is OEM S2000
it looks like the initial surface area of the 503 pad is larger because it doesn't have taper edge like the 787 pad.
- top is 787, 03-07 Accord V6
- second down is 503, 98-02 Accord V6
- third down is Carbotech XP12 S2000
did some tracing of the pads for comparison
pad surface area, 787 vs. 503.
backing plate. 787 vs. 503. looks like you can physically swap the pads but one will move the pad out farther.
pad surface area, 787 vs. 829 (s2000 pad)
not only the surface area is larger but the Accord pad is also thicker at 17.3mm vs. 15.8 mm. that means that i can probably go a whole race season on one set of pads and rotors. that would be so awesome
11-20-2009, 08:07 PM
#4
Registered User
Nicely compiled information.
One note on piston diameters:
According to your caliper piston diameter specs, the Accord calipers have 10% more piston area. This will increase the front brake bias.
The S2000 is already overly front brake biased as are most production cars. Increasing this bias will likely decrease braking performance and increase front brake wear. This is especially true with a modified-for-performance car that has a lower CG which transfers less force under braking. One would want to increase rear brake bias in this scenario to optimize braking performance.
Another common modification is to run zero stagger (or less stagger than stock) tires. In this case increasing the front brake bias may be beneficial to take advantage of the increased front grip.
hondaf1: can you post the weight of the S2000 vs. Accord caliper?
One note on piston diameters:
According to your caliper piston diameter specs, the Accord calipers have 10% more piston area. This will increase the front brake bias.
The S2000 is already overly front brake biased as are most production cars. Increasing this bias will likely decrease braking performance and increase front brake wear. This is especially true with a modified-for-performance car that has a lower CG which transfers less force under braking. One would want to increase rear brake bias in this scenario to optimize braking performance.
Another common modification is to run zero stagger (or less stagger than stock) tires. In this case increasing the front brake bias may be beneficial to take advantage of the increased front grip.
hondaf1: can you post the weight of the S2000 vs. Accord caliper?
11-20-2009, 09:04 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Grearheah, thanks for your insight about the increase front brakes bias.
i currently run a non staggered setup for track, so this would be beneficial.
according to the bathroom scale, the Accord caliper is 12.4 lbs and the S2000 is 9.4 lbs.
i'll try to get a more accurate scale after i figure out which rotors to use and do a final weight comparison for the calipers and rotors.
i currently run a non staggered setup for track, so this would be beneficial.
according to the bathroom scale, the Accord caliper is 12.4 lbs and the S2000 is 9.4 lbs.
i'll try to get a more accurate scale after i figure out which rotors to use and do a final weight comparison for the calipers and rotors.
11-21-2009, 02:38 AM
#7
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Wow, AWESOME writeup and compilation of the previous Accord caliper thread. Thanks for the effort to document everything. I see LOTS of track guys doing this upgrade. Great job to all that contributed.
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11-21-2009, 03:09 AM
#8
Registered User
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Vik2000,Nov 20 2009, 11:27 PM
what exactly is the point of doing this...?
- larger and thicker brake pad should last longer.
- thicker rotors (300x28) should reduce rotors cracking.
there's been an ongoing problem that s2000 front pads doesn't last too long and rotors crack often. hopefully this upgrade should solve the problem but with a penalty of added unsprung weight.
there no gain to this upgrade for street car, spirited driving or even just an occasional track days on street tires, it's just additional dead weight. there's plenty of good brake that will do the job just fine. but if you do 5+ track days a year, then i think this upgrade would be worthwhile.
