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P0411 code. Help!

#1 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 25 September 2010 - 01:59 PM

Recently purchased 2001 s2000 has the cel code p0411. After heavy research, I understand it is due to secondary air injection system incorrect flow. Either leaks, cracks, kinks, backward white check valve, switched up hoses or cracked air pump.

Troubleshooting done. Checked hoses 5-6 times. No obvious cracks. Hoses are hooked up correctly. Found a sloughs crack to the hose under air pump. Repaired. Air pump in good shape, no cracks. Wiring all good, pump activates at start ups.

I am all out of idea here. Ecu has een reset. Code keeps coming. Back. What else am I missing. I also hear the slave open and close so I know that's working.

I've brought it in to a mechanic. He said that the valve could ve getting stuck sometimes and could maybe use cleaning. Any idea what he means and f I could do this myself. After all the reviews about this issue, it doesn't seem to be common the valve gets sticky. I know it's not a critical error but that damn cel light is bothering me.

This post has been edited by ChaseBaciles on Sep 25 2010, 10:36 AM


#2 User is offline   s2kadrenalin 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:43 AM

OBD-II code P0411 means you've either put the one-way valve backwards, have a leak or loose vacuum hose or routed them incorrectly.
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#3 User is offline   Billman250 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 08:54 AM

I know you said air pump was good....just double checkin :) I had this and didnt see it at first. Pump appeared to run fine



#4 User is offline   Billman250 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:04 AM

You can test the vac valve by the air cleaner by powering it. It should allow vaccuum when powered, and seal shut when not. Basically it allows vac to that big valve on the bacxk of the intake.

An electrical load detector monitors pump resistance. If the values are not as expected, it will trigger P0411.

An electrical failure will trigger P0410.

Any leakage in that big valve on the back of the intake, or any sticking of the vac valve will change the values.

I got lots of those big valves if you determine it is not sealing.

#5 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 12:22 PM

Thanks billman. I read your post prior to checking my air pump and I specifically looked around and felt around it by taking the front bumper off. Everything all good. In thinking it's the valve sticking. Anyway to treat it before replacing the valve completely? Btw anyone have an actual pic of how the white check valve is positioned. Several diagrams are confusing.

Btw what type if electrical failure do you mean. The stem works, turns on and off during cold starts.

According to this pic here I found, my white check valve is fitted on correctly:
http://image.hondatuningmagazine.com/f/886..._Space_View.jpg

Another issue it may be is in this pic. of the solenoid valve, there is a long round item placed on top of a suction valve, in mine, it is just some sort of plastic cap that restricts suction.

http://image.hondatuningmagazine.com/f/886...enoid_Valve.jpg

vs mine:

Posted Image

Here are a few more pics i took in case you guys can spot something that i couldn't:

Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image


This post has been edited by ChaseBaciles: 26 September 2010 - 01:48 PM


#6 User is offline   Billman250 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 02:01 PM

I think i see your problem :)

Take that vac cap off the valve. That is supposed to be a vent. Not plugged.

#7 User is offline   Billman250 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 02:02 PM

And put your airbox in. you are losing major HP with it removed.

#8 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 02:11 PM

i've tried removing it off but the code came back, ill try one more time. The other link I found with the picture of the valve has some sort of Round cap on the valve..

I didnt get the stock airbox with it :(

I'll be looking out for one.

#9 User is offline   triddle 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 02:22 PM

I believe the part of the solenoid that was capped off vents the vacuum out to the atmosphere when the solenoid turns off the vacuum that opens up the air injection valve; when I had this code my solenoid lines were swapped and I heard a constant sucking noise; it almost sounded like a bearing going bad. Mine showed up after I put in a K&N FIPK - just FYI for future readers.

#10 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 02:41 PM

Funny thing is I suspected that cap few days back examining the hoses at work. Anyway, I took the cap off, reset the ecu. Drove it around and my idle started dipping low.. I suspected the cap was supposed to be on so I stopped and put it back on.

Anyway, I believe the RPM dipping was only due to the ecu being reset trying to re learn again. Ive reset the exu multiple times after this situation and the rpms dip low after and returns to normal after a few min. of regular driving.

Anyway, I've taken that cap off again, did a cold start and no light so far. Drove around for a few min, rpm is good again. I'll follow up the next time i do a cold start.

#11 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 26 September 2010 - 07:32 PM

okay, so the car has been parked since the last post. Started it again, pump turned on and NO LIGHT! left the car to warm up to 2 bars. Anyway, not satisfied and will follow up again.

#12 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 12:06 AM

3rd start up tonight. air pump turns on and off. no light so I think it's safe to say that it's fixed.

The last owner drove around with CEL light on for the last few years and the issue was so small. Anyway thanks a bunch guys! real helpful!

#13 User is offline   triddle 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 02:10 AM

I thought I remembered a little cap on that part... checked my car and sure enough:

Posted Image

Inside that cap is a little filter as well. You might want to think about replacing the part or at least implementing some kind of new filter medium on it. The original filter is not spectacular, just looks like cotton stuck in a tube or something like that.

#14 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 02:04 PM

yeah Im gonna go to Honda and see how much this part is. Thanks !

#15 User is offline   triddle 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 02:37 PM

Quote

I didnt get the stock airbox with it

I'll be looking out for one.


Consider the K&N FIPK - I went from a stock air box to the FIPK almost entirely for the new engine note it produces. You are hearing that note now with out your air box but you'll lose it if you go back to stock. If you like the low level growl you get when your foot is in it and the bark you get when stabbing the gas pedal you'll want to go with some form of CAI system. If you dislike those noises or the whistle that is common as well go back to stock.

The vacuum line the previous owner ran across the front of the engine (going to the white check valve) can be pretty easily re-routed to clean up the aesthetics of your bay. You just need a few feet of the hose and some automobile rated zip-ties. If you go back to stock you won't need to worry about this as the hose routing is already hidden. If you go to a FIPK they tell you basically to do the same thing (except you run the hose top to bottom instead of sideways across the bay) and I think it's worth the reroute.

Have fun with your new toy! :burnrubr:

#16 User is offline   s2klariat 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 03:47 PM

Im having this same problem as well. I've checked and double checked everything. Pump runs fine and is not damaged believe me I've taken it out enough times. The hoses are routed correctly and have been checked and rechecked over and over. Also the white check valve is pointing in the right direction. Honda told me they changed the air sensor solenoid. I've been using my multimeter to try and find wiring issues but I'm starting to think it may be the ecu. The wires that went to the air sensor solenoid were frayed and arcing off eachother but since have been soldered and fixed and the sensor replaced by Honda but still the light. I'm at a loss for words and I'm overdue for an inspection :mad:
Posted ImagePosted Image
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#17 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 05:04 PM

Quote

Im having this same problem as well. I've checked and double checked everything. Pump runs fine and is not damaged believe me I've taken it out enough times. The hoses are routed correctly and have been checked and rechecked over and over. Also the white check valve is pointing in the right direction. Honda told me they changed the air sensor solenoid. I've been using my multimeter to try and find wiring issues but I'm starting to think it may be the ecu. The wires that went to the air sensor solenoid were frayed and arcing off eachother but since have been soldered and fixed and the sensor replaced by Honda but still the light. I'm at a loss for words and I'm overdue for an inspection :mad:

I assume that you've already checked and double checked all hoses, tight, no cracks. wires are good. If the air pump turns on, it's not the wiring that's the problem as what I've read.

Air pump inspection as well, there are also hoses by the air pump that needs to be checked. Also what helps is after you reset the ecu, let the car cool. Start her up, you will hear the valve turn on activating the air pump. It will run for about 10 sec... then switch off. Monitor the point the CEL activates. With mine, it was everytime the pump turns off which makes sense because my vent was capped not allowing air out everytime the pump turns off.

If all is good visually. You may need to start inspecting the solenoid valve. I also heard o2 sensors could activate this code? not sure.. goodluck man.

#18 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 05:06 PM

Quote

Consider the K&N FIPK - I went from a stock air box to the FIPK almost entirely for the new engine note it produces. You are hearing that note now with out your air box but you'll lose it if you go back to stock. If you like the low level growl you get when your foot is in it and the bark you get when stabbing the gas pedal you'll want to go with some form of CAI system. If you dislike those noises or the whistle that is common as well go back to stock.

The vacuum line the previous owner ran across the front of the engine (going to the white check valve) can be pretty easily re-routed to clean up the aesthetics of your bay. You just need a few feet of the hose and some automobile rated zip-ties. If you go back to stock you won't need to worry about this as the hose routing is already hidden. If you go to a FIPK they tell you basically to do the same thing (except you run the hose top to bottom instead of sideways across the bay) and I think it's worth the reroute.

Have fun with your new toy! :burnrubr:

thanks! i'll check it out. I was thinking of just replacing the filter but keeping the oem intake arm...

I prefer short rams as CAI can cause issues with rain and snow. Billman mentioned i'm losing HP with this setup, is there a reason for this specifically or is it just because the stock filter is meant to work with the stock air box?

will an aftermarket filter fix this? I'd hate to think my car is not maximizing potential.

#19 User is offline   triddle 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 06:58 PM

Quote

thanks! i'll check it out. I was thinking of just replacing the filter but keeping the oem intake arm...

I prefer short rams as CAI can cause issues with rain and snow. Billman mentioned i'm losing HP with this setup, is there a reason for this specifically or is it just because the stock filter is meant to work with the stock air box?

will an aftermarket filter fix this? I'd hate to think my car is not maximizing potential.


Billman probably has better insight than me into that issue but I'll chime in. The engine bay gets hot quick, especially when the car is sitting still. The stock air box draws air from just over the front bumper and it's regarded as being effective at drawing in cool air except it also suffers from heat soak when at a stop. My K&N FIPK also heat soaks at a stop. The difference is, and I've measured it (though poorly), in how fast the heat soak drops when you start moving again. Using my scan gauge and a visual check of vehicle speed vs intake air temp on a FIPK vs stock air box showed the FIPK losing the heat soak a lot faster. I tried to keep a manual data log but that was a total failure of an idea. Now I've got a bluetooth OBD2 transceiver and I plan on using a data logger soon and actually doing a study of the different intakes; with the data being recorded in real time I can crunch it later and get much better details on the heat soak times (ramp up, ramp down) as well as intake temps at any given moment for the current ambient air temps. When? I dunno for sure but Really Soon Now™.

I don't think the FIPK has snow or rain issues. I live near Portland, OR and run the FIPK and use my car as a daily driver. I drive in rain all the time and if I have to snow too. I'm not sure the filter doesn't get wet but I'm positive enough water is not pooling near it to get sucked up and hydrolock the engine. Here's a picture of my install:

Posted Image

Don't think I'm some K&N thumper though, it's not a perfect device. I wish the stupid logo was not there, they forgot to give me a clamp in the kit, and the K&N air filters are known to not filter out particulates as well as OEM filters do. I'm sure some form of adapter could be built to get the stock filter element on the K&N tube though.

#20 User is offline   OneSilverS2k 

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Posted 27 September 2010 - 10:02 PM

Quote

I assume that you've already checked and double checked all hoses, tight, no cracks. wires are good. If the air pump turns on, it's not the wiring that's the problem as what I've read.

Air pump inspection as well, there are also hoses by the air pump that needs to be checked. Also what helps is after you reset the ecu, let the car cool. Start her up, you will hear the valve turn on activating the air pump. It will run for about 10 sec... then switch off. Monitor the point the CEL activates. With mine, it was everytime the pump turns off which makes sense because my vent was capped not allowing air out everytime the pump turns off.

If all is good visually. You may need to start inspecting the solenoid valve. I also heard o2 sensors could activate this code? not sure.. goodluck man.

I see you said everything the pump turns off, mine turns on when the pump first starts.
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#21 User is offline   s2klariat 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 08:31 AM

Bringing this back from the dead again... My air pump is not damaged. My air check valve is in the right direction. All hoses are new and in the right order. I can feel the air pump blowing air through the big hose that fits onto that valve in the back of the engine bay. I have vacuum from the litte hose's connected to the check valve and the air solenoid all the way up to the solenoid and it stops. No vacuum after the solenoid when the air pump is running or not. I had the solenoid replaced by honda and the wiring fixed as it got frayed at one point or another. I checked the solenoid by introducing voltage and it opens and closes. I suspect the wiring to the solenoid but the multimeter reads it is getting voltage. Now is the solenoid just a positive feed with a negative ground? I'm thinking the ground may not be connected and I was going to ground it some where else but I want a second opinion. Billman please step in on this seeing as your the P0411 guru. I'm at my witts end with it

#22 User is offline   s2klariat 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 07:15 PM

bump

#23 User is offline   ChaseBaciles 

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Posted 27 October 2010 - 10:42 PM

Hmm I suspect a disconnected ground will not activate the system altogether? After resetting your ecu. When do you find the cel comes back on. There's about 10 sec that the pump operates. When it activates? While it's running or once it turns off. Being able to detect the timing can pin point eliminate alot of possibilities.

Btw I ended up going with a fujita cold air intake. Cleans up the bay nicely. A little weary around wet areas. Noticed a good improvement in acceleration but no diff. In grumble.

This post has been edited by ChaseBaciles: 27 October 2010 - 10:55 PM


#24 User is offline   s2klariat 

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 03:54 PM

Light turns on when the pump kicks off. The air sensor solenoid isn't what causes the pump to start running. The pump has a relay next to it behind the bumper that turns it on. I'm going to do some trouble shooting again and hopefully get it fixed I'll post my findings. This has been most irritating

#25 User is offline   Billman250 

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Posted 28 October 2010 - 09:00 PM

Stock intake box with lid=best power.

K&N seals agianst the hood, sucks cool air from the corner. Best power with good sound.

Stock box missing or lid missing=good sound, major horsepower loss. do a roll on test with another s2k. Switch the lid from car to car. Car with the lid will always pull away.

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