[b.r.i.a.n.]

haltech also offers live tuning. k-pro does not but flashpro does. the live tuning on the flashpro has been hit or miss for me at least. at times it works, at times it doesn't lol

[DFWs2k]

jh4db536, on 01 February 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

You will not have obd with any ems as the stock ecu is replaced entirely. The only ems that might keep obd2 is the 06+ aem ems since it still keeps the stock one there.

The modifry fix will allow series1 ems to use the coolant sensor.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Tapatalk

Oh, and kpro (allows you to maintain obd2). I don't know why this is so hard for non-kpro users to understand.

Sent using free Tapatalk - Android FTW

[jbkonis]

Kpro also maintains OEM like experience. I just sold my AEM series two to go to a K pro. The AEM doesn't allow the car to start immediately, it turns over several times before actually firing up. Idle is not as precise and adaptable, and their computer software system has many compatibility issues with their various firmwares. When I took my AEM to get tuned after having will called it at AEM's warehouse, the firmware on the unit wasn't even compatible with the latest computer software, we had to downgrade the actual EMS to be able to tune it.

Also, I've suffered several coil pack losses, and misfiring problems, which can't be explained by anything other than the EMS doing something to the fuel delivery/ignition system.

And also, Kpro retains OBDII.

[Urge]

TerminatioN, on 01 February 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Another advantage that AEM has that I haven't seen mentioned is real time tuning.

With AEM you can changes values on the fly while the car is still running and driving. No flashing neccesary. All changes are made immediately without the need to save, reupload, restart, etc.

Several has said this. We have changed paramaters on the KPro while the engine is running live of the dyno all the time. Saves us time when tuning. No issues.

[Japmuscle]

Kyushin, on 10 June 2011 - 12:15 PM, said:

If it were not for emissions, I would have definitely went with AEM because they seem to listen to us more than Hondata who tells us to go F ourselves and keep everyting a secret like its coldwar intel.

lmfao hilarious

[06Estukay]

Urge, on 09 March 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

TerminatioN, on 01 February 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Another advantage that AEM has that I haven't seen mentioned is real time tuning.

With AEM you can changes values on the fly while the car is still running and driving. No flashing neccesary. All changes are made immediately without the need to save, reupload, restart, etc.

Several has said this. We have changed paramaters on the KPro while the engine is running live of the dyno all the time. Saves us time when tuning. No issues.

Yep, I use live tuning with my Flashpro when dong part-throttle adjustments.

[timg]

So, having had both the old AEM 1012 and newest KPro III, I thought I would update my earlier comments.

KPro base maps and setup: Ridiculously easy. I couldn't believe I was done. Don't like the keyboard shortcuts, but the layout of the screens makes it very easy to see everything you might be interested in.

KPro tuning: NOT REALTIME! This has been mentioned, but there has also been contradictory information. The easiest way to tell, make a massive parameter change. Instead of occurring instantly, nothing happens. Adjusting parameters requires making the changes, shutting off the engine, flashing the KPro, and then starting the car again to test. It's not nearly as easy as the AEM. Flashing the KPro III is very fast though.

KPro installation: I love that it's a stockish computer in the stock location, but changing the sensors and running all of the wiring sucks. AEM installation is MUCH easier.

Biggest KPro benefit other than OBD2: digital WBO2 inputs. I'm running a PLX SM-AFR with a DM-6. I've wired the SM-AFR directly into the digital inputs on the KPro. It recognizes the signal and datalogs it perfectly. This was incredibly easy to setup and you'll never have to worry about voltage offsets.

Biggest KPro drawback: No realtime tuning.

Overall, there are things I really like about the KPro, and others I really miss from the AEM. For someone who wants absolute control over the ignition and fueling and understands how engines work, the AEM is awesome. When you get the AEM right, it will run better than a stock car. For someone with limited experience, the KPro is easier to get started with and to tune with. It also seems like it would make crappy tuners look like heroes.

Tim

This post has been edited by timg: 13 May 2012 - 06:59 PM

[b.r.i.a.n.]

timg, on 13 May 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

So, having had both the old AEM 1012 and newest KPro III, I thought I would update my earlier comments.

KPro base maps and setup: Ridiculously easy. I couldn't believe I was done. Don't like the keyboard shortcuts, but the layout of the screens makes it very easy to see everything you might be interested in.

KPro tuning: NOT REALTIME! This has been mentioned, but there has also been contradictory information. The easiest way to tell, make a massive parameter change. Instead of occurring instantly, nothing happens. Adjusting parameters requires making the changes, shutting off the engine, flashing the KPro, and then starting the car again to test. It's not nearly as easy as the AEM. Flashing the KPro III is very fast though.

KPro installation: I love that it's a stockish computer in the stock location, but changing the sensors and running all of the wiring sucks. AEM installation is MUCH easier.

Biggest KPro benefit other than OBD2: digital WBO2 inputs. I'm running a PLX SM-AFR with a DM-6. I've wired the SM-AFR directly into the digital inputs on the KPro. It recognizes the signal and datalogs it perfectly. This was incredibly easy to setup and you'll never have to worry about voltage offsets.

Biggest KPro drawback: No realtime tuning.

Overall, there are things I really like about the KPro, and others I really miss from the AEM. For someone who wants absolute control over the ignition and fueling and understands how engines work, the AEM is awesome. When you get the AEM right, it will run better than a stock car. For someone with limited experience, the KPro is easier to get started with and to tune with. It also seems like it would make crappy tuners look like heroes.

Tim

yeah, the lack of real time tuning sucks. like i mentioned in the other thread, you install an aftermarket wideband but it can't be used to for closed loop o2 control. kpro and flashpro tend to be buggy at times. for the k-series cars i tend to see a lot of error with regards to cam command and cam timing.

look at this screen shot:



notice how the actual cam timing didn't follow the cam command till the car was in 4th gear lol.

look at this screen shot:



there was roughly a three degree difference between the ignition timing on the main table and the actual ignition timing. notice there was no knock retard. the ignition timing is quickly corrected by the ecu but still.

i was working on an rsx last night with kpro 3. again, i had problems with the cam timing. i'll see if i can post a screen shot of that log tomorrow.

[spectacle]

Urge, on 09 March 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

TerminatioN, on 01 February 2012 - 01:52 PM, said:

Another advantage that AEM has that I haven't seen mentioned is real time tuning.

With AEM you can changes values on the fly while the car is still running and driving. No flashing neccesary. All changes are made immediately without the need to save, reupload, restart, etc.

Several has said this. We have changed paramaters on the KPro while the engine is running live of the dyno all the time. Saves us time when tuning. No issues.

timg, on 13 May 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

KPro tuning: NOT REALTIME! This has been mentioned, but there has also been contradictory information. The easiest way to tell, make a massive parameter change. Instead of occurring instantly, nothing happens. Adjusting parameters requires making the changes, shutting off the engine, flashing the KPro, and then starting the car again to test. It's not nearly as easy as the AEM. Flashing the KPro III is very fast though.

I want to clarify all this. KPro is NOT realtime updatable in a reliable, consistent manner. Basically, anytime you hit the update button on Kpro, it will kill the motor while the ECU is being flashed. The catch is for how long. How long the motor is killed depends on what changes you are making to the existing map...most times you can get away with the motor running if the changes are very small. So, for example, if you change a single column of fuel in the RPM index while cruising and hit update, the motor will cut out for just a second and come right back. But, if you tried to say load an entirely new map, the motor will die completely while the map is being uploaded and flashed. KPro III is a lot faster than the old versions with uploading changes, so for someone tuning on the dyno like Urge mentioned, they can get away with making even moderate changes without having to stop the car. Most times, a quick blip of the throttle to bring the RPM's up, then hitting update will be enough to save the changes without killing the motor. It's hacky, but it works. But again, it is not reliable and I do not recommend making changes in that manner, especially if you're street tuning on your own. Ask me why.

06Estukay, on 12 May 2012 - 11:55 PM, said:

Yep, I use live tuning with my Flashpro when dong part-throttle adjustments.

I think FlashPro actually implements live tuning the way its meant to be, but that's a separate topic from KPro.

[timg]

spectacle, on 15 May 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

I want to clarify all this. KPro is NOT realtime updatable in a reliable, consistent manner. Basically, anytime you hit the update button on Kpro, it will kill the motor while the ECU is being flashed. The catch is for how long. How long the motor is killed depends on what changes you are making to the existing map...most times you can get away with the motor running if the changes are very small. So, for example, if you change a single column of fuel in the RPM index while cruising and hit update, the motor will cut out for just a second and come right back. But, if you tried to say load an entirely new map, the motor will die completely while the map is being uploaded and flashed. KPro III is a lot faster than the old versions with uploading changes, so for someone tuning on the dyno like Urge mentioned, they can get away with making even moderate changes without having to stop the car. Most times, a quick blip of the throttle to bring the RPM's up, then hitting update will be enough to save the changes without killing the motor. It's hacky, but it works. But again, it is not reliable and I do not recommend making changes in that manner, especially if you're street tuning on your own. Ask me why.

Thanks for your post. I gave it a shot and you're right, it works. It's not quite true realtime, but it's a whole lot easier than shutting off the engine to reflash. The KPro III really is fast. Even at idle I've been able to change parameters without killing the engine.

I have heard issues with this causing corrupted uploads, so I'll have the be careful with it.

Tim