Jump to content

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

RUNING ON E85 anyone ?

#1 User is offline   es55r 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 22-September 09
  • Country: United States
  • Interests: I just got myself a ae86, im swaping in a f20c ap1 engine w itbs.need info on honda thec.now im cross breeding for a new era of knowledge.im new to honda game, some wisdom talk is what im looking for

Posted 06 May 2011 - 03:22 PM

I know there are advantages running on E85 ethanol . colder fuel, knocking is virtually eliminated, price of it is similar or sometimes cheaper than regular 87 octane gas, performance wise, it is similar to 105-110 octane fuel, it is a green alternative for evironment issues...Non corrosive, wont eat rubber in hoses, better mileage and so on.. On carburator engine they say they have to increase overall flow by 30% on fuel system and run other type of plugs since it is subject to preignition more than normal gas...I was wandering what it would take to run on injection engine such as the f20-22c. I have stock injectors, stock everything.... ITB's and exhaust , tuning on AEM EMS II, got wideband monitor gauge to check for mixture... If anyone was already running this type of fuel/gas, i'd love to have the necessary informations to make me a E85 setup for mu f20c :)

To whoever will answer me, thank you in advance

Sorry for my english writting , I'm french from quebec.

André

#2 User is offline   ViperASR 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 1,662
  • Joined: 31-July 09
  • Country: United States

Posted 06 May 2011 - 03:52 PM

Do a search. I know Gernby has a thread on this somewhere.
#187 STR
Posted Image

#3 User is offline   Breaking Point 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 747
  • Joined: 04-December 08
  • Country: United States

Posted 06 May 2011 - 10:17 PM

youll need a bigger fuel pump and a metal fuel filter not the tipical paper filter itll eat thru it.last i noticed i got worse gas milage,its 110 octane, itll run the car untuned but itll be funky and will hate cold starts,however if/when tuned runs well and like wow lolz.i would do it to my f20 if there were more e85 locally to me but for now i only run it in my race car.but these pumps are showing up more often!hope i could help some.

-JDM

#4 User is offline   b.r.i.a.n. 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 618
  • Joined: 25-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:south florida
  • Country: United States

Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:29 AM

i actually got my car running on e85 last night. i'm using the stock fuel system minus the injectors. i'm using injector dynamic 1000cc injectors. so far so good. i'll check the cold start in a bit.
2003 Civic Si - 241 whp/166 tq - naturally aspirated - sold
2002 Grand Prix White S2000 - 234 whp/155 tq - E85 powered
2006 Milano Red TSX - daily driver
The b.r.i.a.n. tuning facebook fan page - click here to join

#5 User is offline   Breaking Point 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 747
  • Joined: 04-December 08
  • Country: United States

Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:29 PM

Well my reasoning behind the inline metal fuel filter like a russel one or something is because its eats at the factory paper style.how does it feel? It'll be better tuned

#6 User is offline   b.r.i.a.n. 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 618
  • Joined: 25-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:south florida
  • Country: United States

Posted 07 May 2011 - 03:16 PM

my buddy installed the clips and injectors yesterday and then i dialed in the map with the new injectors. i got most of the map squared away on the way to the e85 station. we then got to the station. i was on 2 bars. i filled up 10 gallons of e85. i turned on the car and i let the car idle waiting for the e85 to mix in. the car started leaning out and i was adding fuel. i did some street tuning to get everything squared away with e85. i'm using the haltech platinum sport 1000. i'm trying to setup up the dual tables to run a seperate fuel/ignition timing table for the when it's running on the vtec lobe. once that's setup i'll be hitting the dyno.

here's a picture i took on my phone last night as i was pumping e85 lol

Posted Image

#7 User is offline   Breaking Point 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 747
  • Joined: 04-December 08
  • Country: United States

Posted 07 May 2011 - 10:14 PM

Yayyyy corn syrup I mean e85 hahaha yea man good stuff.how u liking it? It feeling any diff on your car? And what's your setup?

Also like I said watch out for your fuel filter that was my main problem when swtiching over my prelude.lmao buddy of mine at work just switched over he's only noticed his mpg go down like 2mpg which isn't bad esk side the car runs its nuts off now.downside he's on a stock computer right now till his neptune comes in then ill have my way with it.hehehe.its a b16 running 14.2;1 compression so I figure it runs right enough w. 550rc Injectors lolz

#8 User is offline   b.r.i.a.n. 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 618
  • Joined: 25-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:south florida
  • Country: United States

Posted 08 May 2011 - 09:16 AM

View PostBreaking Point, on 07 May 2011 - 10:14 PM, said:

Yayyyy corn syrup I mean e85 hahaha yea man good stuff.how u liking it? It feeling any diff on your car? And what's your setup?

Also like I said watch out for your fuel filter that was my main problem when swtiching over my prelude.lmao buddy of mine at work just switched over he's only noticed his mpg go down like 2mpg which isn't bad esk side the car runs its nuts off now.downside he's on a stock computer right now till his neptune comes in then ill have my way with it.hehehe.its a b16 running 14.2;1 compression so I figure it runs right enough w. 550rc Injectors lolz

i'm running a hondata intake manifold gasket, and a plm header with test pipe. the 550's should be go for ~240 whp on e85 at stock fuel pressure. i tuned the part throttle portion of the map on the lean side to get better gas mileage. so far so good. i haven't gone through a full tank yet but i'll probably do that on my next fill up and reset trip a to see how many miles i can get out of a full tank.

#9 User is offline   dan_uk 

  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 4,443
  • Joined: 14-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Savannah, GA, USA
  • Country: United States

Posted 08 May 2011 - 10:52 AM

wondering how far you could get an F20c with E85 on stock injectors/fuel pump?

#10 User is offline   es55r 

  • Topic Starter
  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 22-September 09
  • Country: United States
  • Interests: I just got myself a ae86, im swaping in a f20c ap1 engine w itbs.need info on honda thec.now im cross breeding for a new era of knowledge.im new to honda game, some wisdom talk is what im looking for

Posted 09 May 2011 - 07:40 AM

I would change the fuel filter just to be sure ...altought I'd like to know too if its possible to run E85 on stock injectore / fuel pump

#11 User is offline   Breaking Point 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 747
  • Joined: 04-December 08
  • Country: United States

Posted 09 May 2011 - 12:30 PM

Stock Injectors maybe I mean yea stock pump but you'll be pushing it.good e85 bunch of info will come up it tells u how it eats the paper gaskets and requires 30% more fuel to run like any race fuel really and sometimes lading out your oem pemp isn't smart lmao.

#12 User is offline   wadzii 

  • View gallery
  • Group: Vendor - Starter Primary
  • Posts: 3,538
  • Joined: 03-May 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Country: United States

Posted 09 May 2011 - 08:16 PM

when i was on the stock engine I ran e85 for a little while... the stock injectors were at 100% duty at around 8000 rpms, cold start was terrible and milage sucked so much ass I switched back in a month (about 1200 miles for me). The stock pump and fuel filter held up fine for the short time I used it.

Its not really worth it on a stock motor, my car wasnt really any faster
Central North Carolina Speedshop
112 N. Church Street
Zebulon NC 27597
919-375-5036

AEM Infinity Authorized Distributor

CentralNCSpeedshop

Use coupon code s2kdiff to get $400 off our CNCSpeedshop S2000 8.8" conversion kit

http://www.lubedeale...tralncspeedshop

#13 User is offline   dcmonkey 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 494
  • Joined: 04-December 10
  • Location:Fairfield County

Posted 09 May 2011 - 09:07 PM

hey fellas i would be very weary of running E85 on our cars and any car that is not e-85 compatible ive done extensive research on this and spoken to a couple old school chevy gurus and the sum of every thing is that any engine that is factory e85 compatible is very different from per say the same engine but not e85 compliant. for starters the fuel lines are different, all rubber fuel lines are a different rubber including all gaskets,the fuel pump itself is different and so is the fuel filter as well as the engine valves are specially coated due to e-85's corrosive nature. Anyone whos selling those stupid plug in e-85 conversions is screwing you over because non-e85 engines dont have the same materials as an e85 engine does thus making it more prone to internal damage which can be very expensive in the long run. im pretty sure its ok if you use it once or twice but due to e85 not being petroleum based a lot if not most of your fuel line gaskets will crack and break because e85 is that different from standard gas.

i dunno how true this is, but im just basing this on what a gm tech whos a friend told me to be careful with and why.



watch this vid


This post has been edited by dcmonkey: 09 May 2011 - 09:17 PM

Posted Image

206.69rwhp 138.85lbft untuned on 93 octane

#14 User is offline   Breaking Point 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 747
  • Joined: 04-December 08
  • Country: United States

Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:15 AM

Wadazii. After doing multiple vehicles on e85 I do agree and disagree lolz u r right on what happened to u if u don't tune the motor for the fuel it'll eat it and thus why I said the Russel fuel filter and bigger Injectors.but really only will be good for a stock dd once there's more of these pumps locally.for me anyway.

Dcmonkey.its really not as crazy as u think.if u read what I posted the e85 is very easily ran w. A metal inline fuel filter.generally wanting to switch to braided lines as well but can be ran for a few years on oem lines before it starts hurting them.needs a bigger fuel pump and Injectors and tune to keep up w. It.but that's any 110+pctane fuel this ish is equivalent to race fuel for us and is race fuel for a lot of us lolz.since cam2 and v16 are rather expensive and 93 doesn't push enough octane and e85 is cheaper then regular but same octane as the race fuels....I think I found my fix haha.but the valves really aren't different on the gms like they say.I just sold my truck pulled the nonflex fuel motor and gave it to my boy whose truck is a flexfuel but his oil pumped locked up(common thing for 99+ s10 lol) only things needing to be swapped over is the intel manifold tb and fuel system cause its mounted diff on the flex fuel intake mani.and the motor is just right haha.searched called talked w. Gm techs etc front to make sure we took all the proper peramiters and they said yes it'll be fine. So my conclusion on that is u just gotta do the fuel sysytem and tuning right.my prelude is running e85 and going for some high hp heart surgery soon so im redoing the fuel system the right way(before it was 550cc Injectors and 255 fuel pump stock lines for 1.5 years no problems just assumed there would be eventually.soon braided lines 1000+cc injectos a1000 fuel pump braided lines etc...so we shall c if I get to convert my dd over lolz

#15 User is offline   Breaking Point 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 747
  • Joined: 04-December 08
  • Country: United States

Posted 10 May 2011 - 12:16 AM

However I do agree them conversion kits they sell claiming it'll make your ride e85 compatible are crock hewy

#16 User is offline   wadzii 

  • View gallery
  • Group: Vendor - Starter Primary
  • Posts: 3,538
  • Joined: 03-May 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Raleigh, NC
  • Country: United States

Posted 10 May 2011 - 06:16 AM

my car was fully tuned w/aem ems.. I spent alot of time on it... way more than i spend on most. I have never had a car on e85 be as hard to start as mine was and I never really expected the stock injectors to keep up.

my fuel mileage went from about 24mpg on gas to 18 on e85. I generally test everything on the dyno, but the ass dyno didnt register enough gains for me to even worry with testing e85 in my car on the dyno.

in regards to what DCmonkey said... All that is true if you are building a car that has to last 10+ years and go 200k miles running e85. For most "enthusiast" applications, stock parts with upgraded injectors will suffice.

#17 User is offline   es55r 

  • Topic Starter
  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 22-September 09
  • Country: United States
  • Interests: I just got myself a ae86, im swaping in a f20c ap1 engine w itbs.need info on honda thec.now im cross breeding for a new era of knowledge.im new to honda game, some wisdom talk is what im looking for

Posted 10 May 2011 - 08:51 AM

So basically , bigger injectors, eventually a better fuel pump ( or one meant to run w/ E85 ), a metal fuel filter + a good tune ex: w/ AEM EMS should do it...(right?)

How much gains and milaege would I expect from those changes if averyhting is OEM internaly in engine...

IM running witouht a catalitik converter, some homemade hayabusa ITB's AEM EMS II tune and a 2.5 inch from headers to muffler piping....I kept stock headers and wraped' hem in thermal tape and ceramic whool. grounded every coil on plugs to battery and engine block w/ a big 4-0 5000 fine strand wire made out of copping for extra grounding ,reducing resistance. no further extras.

IM still in the built, going to tune soon, still considering the e85 fuel cell for special occasions, or should i just mix the fuel to e85 in proportion to have better fuel octane and keep it like this?

This post has been edited by es55r: 10 May 2011 - 08:52 AM


#18 User is offline   dan_uk 

  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 4,443
  • Joined: 14-December 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Savannah, GA, USA
  • Country: United States

Posted 10 May 2011 - 03:06 PM

E85 sounds interesting but I'm not allowed to modify my fuel crap so I think I'll get her mapped for 100 Octane and leave it at that

#19 User is offline   Gernby 


  • Group: Vendor - Premium Primary
  • Posts: 15,348
  • Joined: 08-March 02
  • Gender:Male
  • Country: United States

Posted 11 May 2011 - 11:04 AM

I had an identical experience with E85 as Wadzii. I just have basic bolt-ons with 630cc Siemens Deka injectors and stock fuel pump. I was able to achieve slightly more power with more ignition timing and fewer knock counts, but the constant fill-ups were brutal. It was just too damn expensive, and I had to always consider how far I going to drive without knowing where an E85 station could be found. I switched back to E10 after 2 weeks.

#20 User is offline   franknbeans 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 34
  • Joined: 09-February 10
  • Country: United States

Posted 11 May 2011 - 12:20 PM

In addition to more aggressive timing, wouldn't a bigger improvement be seen by bumping your compression. I have heard of increasing compression up to 13:1 on E85. This would increase efficiency thus increasing power and improving mileage. I know E85 has 27% less energy per volume than regular gasoline but by increasing compression you can offset around 3-5%.
Your mileage will get worse, not arguing that. Some places E85 is much less expensive and the benefit to cost ratio may be lower.
At least your emissions will be lower. :cool:

As far as cold start, it will be worse unless you increase your dynamic compression ratio.
This can be done with cam timing or will increase if you raise static compression ratio.

#21 User is offline   es55r 

  • Topic Starter
  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 51
  • Joined: 22-September 09
  • Country: United States
  • Interests: I just got myself a ae86, im swaping in a f20c ap1 engine w itbs.need info on honda thec.now im cross breeding for a new era of knowledge.im new to honda game, some wisdom talk is what im looking for

Posted 11 May 2011 - 03:29 PM

too bad then! I'll stick w good old gas I think

#22 User is offline   Breaking Point 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 747
  • Joined: 04-December 08
  • Country: United States

Posted 12 May 2011 - 08:55 AM

Yea right now for something not a daily os ok but for a daily car like stated not knowing where the next pump is isn't fun yet.here premium 93 pctane is 4.30$/gal cam2 and v16 r 7+. E85 is 2.and some change.it'd be worth it if there were alot of the e85 pumps near me at that price

#23 User is offline   kevos2k 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 1,714
  • Joined: 05-April 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Country: United States

Posted 12 May 2011 - 09:10 AM

Ive been driving my S daily as much as I can E85 here is 3.09... premium is just over 4.00

I never let my car get much under 1/4 tank to finding a station in time isn't a huge issue for me
2003 Honda S2000, 2011 Honda CR-Z, 2011 Toyota Prius
My seller feedback

#24 User is offline   b.r.i.a.n. 

  • Group: Guest
  • Posts: 618
  • Joined: 25-November 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:south florida
  • Country: United States

Posted 14 May 2011 - 02:45 PM

there's a lot of mis-information out there. don't believe everything you read. i've tuned plenty of cars on e85, some with stock fuel systems minus injectors with no problems.

on wednesday i had to pump e85 and i rode about 10 miles on 0 bars on the gas gauge to get to the nearest e85 station. i pumped ~8 gallons of e85. i went to fill up yesterday. i was able to squeeze out 165 miles with 1 bar left on the gas gauge. i think i could've easily taken it to 180, maybe even 190 miles.

Posted Image

#25 User is offline   manny-s2000 

  • Group: Member
  • Posts: 695
  • Joined: 05-April 07
  • Country: Australia

Posted 15 May 2011 - 09:56 PM

E85 is the bomb period.

Ads by Google   S2KI

Share this topic:


  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users