S2000 Racing and Competition The S2000 on the track and Solo circuit. Some of the fastest S2000 drivers in the world call this forum home.
View Poll Results: What differential do you use?
OEM Torsen
56.76%
OSGiken
30.63%
Carbontech Carbon
3.60%
Carbontech Metal
0
0%
Other
9.01%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

STR Prep - Differential Discussion

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Old 10-19-2011, 10:44 AM
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Default STR Prep - Differential Discussion

=============== STR Threads ===============

STR Prep - Suspension and Alignment
STR Prep - Shock / Damper and Springs Discussion
STR Prep - Differential Discussion
STR Prep - ECU and Tuning Discusson
STR Prep - Wheels and Tires
STR Prep - Exhuast (tip to tail)
STR Prep - Weight Reduction
STR Prep - Sway Bars
SCCA Solo - STR Rules Discussion ---> (Debate rules and proposals here...)
STR Prep - AP1 vs AP2v1 vs AP2v2 vs CR
STR Prep - Intake • from DIY to Mugen
STR Engine Mounts

=============== STR Threads ===============

Originally Posted by H22A_CD5
Originally Posted by Banannie' timestamp='1311710042' post='20817595
Has anyone tried a different diff other than the OS Giken?
SC_Highlander is running the Carbonetics. I have pm'd him in the past asking what he though of it.

Originally Posted by SC_Highlander' timestamp='1318533727
...I've had the carbonetics 1.5way carbon LSD unit for about a year and a half now, in a Puddy built rear end. I put about 1000 break-in miles on it in my street s2000 before transferring it over to the race car. I haven't given it another thought since installation. It's been perfect. During the breakin miles, I noticed it make a little noise on tight parking space turn-in at low speed, but I don't notice this anymore -- possibly because the racecar is loud, possibly because the noise has gone away. In total, the diff probably only has less than 1500 miles on it. I plan to pull it off in the next couple of months and send it back to Ben... and have him give everything a once-over while he has it.
Old 10-19-2011, 10:46 AM
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I too have been considering the Carbontech Carbon differential. Anyone else have experience with it. My car is a daily driver and goes on autocross trips of 500 to 1300 miles at a time. I have concern about the OSGiken under these circumstances.
Old 10-19-2011, 11:38 AM
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I'm an idiot here, but with us not have a rear wheel lift that makes it do the wheel spin (unlike the stock days), do we really need an aftermarket LSD?

-Dave
Old 10-19-2011, 12:15 PM
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I'm definitely curious to hear (if we ever do) where the failure is in the OSG. I was planning to go that route eventually and now that I have a failing OE torsen even more-so. But with all the failures as of late it's not looking like a good idea. I dont want to go with another OE and get 6 months down the road and have the same issues, but some people never have issues at all.
Old 10-19-2011, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by daverx7
I'm an idiot here, but with us not have a rear wheel lift that makes it do the wheel spin (unlike the stock days), do we really need an aftermarket LSD?

-Dave
This is debatable. Think of the cases where you try to put power down and the back end breaks away? Could a clutch type diff improve that scenario? I am told that may be the case.
Old 10-19-2011, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Random1
Originally Posted by daverx7' timestamp='1319053116' post='21084241
I'm an idiot here, but with us not have a rear wheel lift that makes it do the wheel spin (unlike the stock days), do we really need an aftermarket LSD?

-Dave
This is debatable. Think of the cases where you try to put power down and the back end breaks away? Could a clutch type diff improve that scenario? I am told that may be the case.
We have a 1.5 way in our SSM car set to breakaway at 80ft*lbs IIRC and the difference was night and day.

MUCH more predictable on throttle oversteer. Have you ever been in a Corvette powering out of corners? Same sort of thing.

I think a well tuned 1.5 way will eventually be faster once the driver gets used to it. It does drive differently, though.

Wonder if the advantage will come out in low-trac conditions like rain or cold...
Old 10-19-2011, 06:20 PM
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Agreed -- for the few events we were able to use a healthy OS Giken (and drive it in a smart way), the difference was huge. Once the nose of the car is down and a fraction of steering input given, you can get right back on the throttle with a predictable result.
Old 10-19-2011, 06:27 PM
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I like the Idea of the diff but after you take into account the cost, season worth tuning the diff it's self and the risk of it breaking I'm staying with the oem diff until the top 5 people at nationals all run a diff to prove to me it's needed.
Old 10-19-2011, 07:03 PM
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There's something called "proof of concept."

Where if something has a theoretical advantage that makes sense, you go with it... having faith that probabilistically it's in your favor, even if the variables mask the effect from coming through in the short term.

Examples: AP1 vs. CR in BS. There has always been an AP1 in the top 5. Would that person (Janzen in 08, Joey Schilling in 10, Ricky Crow in 11) have WON if they had been in a CR? Janzen and Crow have spoken with their dollars.

Does a lighter car make a difference? Colin had a heavier car than the other top 5. But he did have a diff....

Does left foot braking matter? I can tell you that some courses it doesn't, but it really did on the variable transition West course this year.

I think a diff is important, it'll take a little bit of time for people to accept that.

It may take a rainy event with a pin turn to really showcase it, but it will eventually come out, I think.
Old 10-20-2011, 10:56 AM
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I've been researching differentials off and on for the past few months. I was ready to drop the cash on the OS Giken until their recent fiasco. I went back to the drawing board and came across this: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/656...you-recommend/ . I'm leaning towards Carbonetic but haven't taken the plunge yet.

I'm currently emailing a few people, gathering information.

An email reply from Mark Mendoza @ OS Giken:
Thank you for your interest in OS LSD. It is unfortunate that several SCCA racers have had troubles with their OS LSD, but it should also be noted that we have sold hundreds (if not thousands?) of S2000 LSD worldwide for the past 10 years with very few failures (maybe 1-2 recorded instances outside the US); they are being used at all levels, from daily street driven to professional circuit racing. Analysis of the issue has pointed to the limited oil capacity in the OEM carrier as the root cause, and not a flaw in the OS LSD design. In order to aid in prevention of additional problems, OS has revised the design of the S2000 side gears. We do recommend use of an expanded diff carrier and/or cooler in order to keep the OS LSD properly oiled, but we understand that these modifications are not allowed in your SCCA class, and use of an expanded carrier/cooler is not necessary in order to use OS LSD.
OS LSD will be heavier than the Torsen diff; it is physically larger and denser. This will further reduce the oil capacity in the diff case so it is vital that the carrier is filled properly to capacity. Shipping weight for S2000 LSD is approx. 25lbs, I do not have data on the Torsen diff weight.
Installation is the same as replacement of the factory diff, please refer to your FSM for details.
Break-in is not necessary; for new OS LSD there is a bed-in procedure between the side gears and pinion gears but this will occur naturally as you drive; first oil change is recommended after one event or a few hundred miles; subsequent changes at the standard recommended intervals is fine. (15000+ miles?) Most pro teams change fluid after every event. We have endurance tested OS LSD on OS oil at Nurburgring for 30hrs with no fluid changes and no issues (Lexus IS-F). We have also endurance tested OS LSD on OS oil for commercial use with over 100,000km logged, also with no fluid changes and no issues. (Toyota HiAce)
Regarding settings, the standard setting is recommended to establish a baseline for performance. Should you feel the need to increase/decrease lock timing progression, this can be done by changing the springs in the pressure ring to either quicken or delay the locking properties. This requires the LSD to be removed and internal parts replaced. The best setting for someone else may or may not be the right setting for you, depending on your vehicle setup, driving style, etc.
OS LSD is not like other clutch-type LSD; it costs more because it is built with better materials using higher-level manufacturing techniques. If maintained properly the OS LSD should never require any sort of rebuild. We do not even release specific part numbers for the LSD internals, as any sort of rebuild kit should not be needed and is not offered as an off-the-shelf item. If you do happen to have an issue with your OS LSD, we will of course support you as much as possible to determine the cause of the problem and supply a remedy.
OS LSD is designed to handle any type of driving condition; our customers have been using it for street, drag, drift, circuit, auto-x, rally, etc. We feel that as long as enough oil is supplied to the unit it will provide years of relatively maintenance-free and consistent performance.
You can read about additional information on our website: http://www.osgiken.net
An email reply from Pawel Tokarz @ Motovicity (US Distributor for Carbonetic)
1) The Carbonetic differentials are a direct replacement for the S2000 so no modification is required. Follow OE [installation] instructions.

2) The Carbonetic differentials have been proven in the racing environment but being a racing product there is no warranty offered for their differential. Naturally if there are any manufacturer defects they will be covered.

3) The Carbonetic differential is only offered in a 1.5 way and a 2 way. These ratings are industry standard and not a true representation of the actual ratio of the diff. The 1.5 way is realistically closer to a 1.2-1.3 way diff and it is what you would want to go with. The higher the number the more lock you will start seeing on deceleration.

4) We have seen multiple seasons out of the carbon differential with no issues. Its impossible to put an actual number on [the lifespan] though.

5) All parts are stocked by Carbonetic in the US and are readily available for you to purchase.

6) The differential lockup rate cannot be changes but the pressures can be adjusted by moving disks around and adding washers / cone springs. We do not supply any information on adjustment of the differential. This would be something you would have to do on your own of through your differential builder.

7) The Carbonetic differential although clutch style is very quiet and smooth on the street. The carbon on the disks gives the differential friction material for slip when needed and a greater lock when fully engaged then a traditional metal to metal differential. Street driving will have no chatter or annoying vibrations like any traditional clutch style differential.
8). I do not have weight comparisons. Maybe Ben [PuddyMod] can chime in on this as he builds them.


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