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I just can't watch F1 anymore

#1 User is offline   fishfryer 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:15 AM

I had been an F1 fan for years, but I've finally figured out why F1 just bores me to tears lately. I thought it was single engine types, but that wasn't it, I thought is was the lack of passing, that wasn't it. It is simply the common ECU and rev limiter. Nothing blows up, the chassis are not pushed to the limit on a consistant basis and there is no excitement after the first two laps. I watch the start and then fast forward though the race. Even qualifying I only watch the last 3 minutes of each segment. I want to see motors at 22,000 RPM plus and teams risking blowing up to win a race, they've tried to limit the aero, but aero isn't the problem, it is just lack of excitement. It is just modern restrictor plate racing, it really just sucks.
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#2 User is offline   sparrow 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:46 AM

I'm too young to remember the late 80's early 90's of F1 but was there more passing then? All of the videos I see of old races it seems as if prost/senna/mansell and others were ALWAYS dicing it up. Now like you said after the first 2 laps its horrible to watch. Were the engines unrestricted in configuration 20 yrs ago?
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#3 User is offline   fishfryer 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:25 AM

I was ANARCHY in the old days, they had engines just for four lap qualifying, after that they were nearly junk, 1200+ HP massive boost on a V6 for 10 minutes, racing next to a flat twelve next to a V8. They all sounded different, each had different allowable specs, they all broke all the time, nothing lasted more than 90 minutes. Then they went to V10s which were all of the same broad formula, but some were better than others, then the V8s came in and some leftover v10s that were restricted, then all V8s, now V*s with the same ECU and I believe 18K rev limit. They've tried to mix things up with DRS and energy recovery systems, but it truly blows. The only thing now is that all the money they spent on engines, they spend on aero.

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:37 AM

It still holds interest for me. Granted I only started well and truly following it since the Schumacher era, but I still derive fun from it.

You would not be the only person to have lost interest though. I've heard several people say that they have lost interest in F1 as it currently is. Perhaps someday I'll find myself losing interest as well, but until then I will continue to watch. We've had some great races this season with Button's come-from-behind win in Canada as well as Monaco, Hungary and Spa (remember the move Webber pulled on Alonso).

Also the drivers today are all trained and well-mannered. Nothing of the wild-childs of the past like James Hunt for example. Also perhaps as the economy improves and more manufacturers move back into the sport, there could be a push for more easing of restrictions. As of now cost-containment and efficiency seems to be their mantra.

#5 User is offline   luder_5555 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 01:57 PM

I too would like to see more configurations. I think that being F1, and essentially the highest level of racing in the world, that they should be allowed to make the cars however they want to make them as fast as the rules allow. I have heard ideas like give them a certain amount of fuel that they are allowed to use, and let that be the limiting factor on how much power they can make. As for aero make some restrictions, but let it be much more "figure out what works best within the guidelines and have at it."

It does take some of the excitement out when all the cars look essentially the same, they all have essentially the same engine, and all make the same noise.

If I were running the FIA my rough outline would be"
You have "X" amount of fuel for Qualifying and the race. Use whatever engine you like, and do whatever you want with it. This would mean that the teams who didn't qualify as well could potentially have more fuel meaning more power for the race.
You may make the front and rear wings "x" size, and this part is allowed to move, and this part is not.
Tires and wheels may be this size, and you can choose between these two brands, and for any given week you may choose one brand of the other, and after the halfway point in the season you must choose one for the rest of the year.
Engine maps may be adjustable, but whatever map you run your fastest Qualifying lap on, is what you must start the race with, and run for at least the first five green flag laps.

Basically it would give them more creative license, and things that would give them an advantage in some areas would make things a little more risky.
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#6 User is offline   A 2 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:47 PM

^ costs would be waay higher and fewer teams involved in the sport. As it is several mfrs have left the sport or are operating in it for branding purposes only. Would be great to see that though when the global economy improves.

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:19 PM

You forgot that there were also multiple tire vendors in the mix.
Ultra soft gumballs good for a lap for qualifying. and yes cleverly disguised grenades engines good for a half dozen wicked fast laps.
not to mention a totally different aero package for qualifying and the race.

if you go back far enough you'll even find crazy cars like the 6 wheel tyrell.


I'd love to see them lift the power limit but reduce the tire footprint and reduce the amount of wing they can use.
make the cars damn near undrivable then we'll see the true drivers come to the fore.
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#8 User is offline   luder_5555 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:21 PM

^ I don't think that making the cars slower is the answer. I firmly believe that part of what makes F1 special is that they are the fastest cars in the world. I understand that they are nowhere near the top of the top speed category, but everywhere else they are clearly the highest performing cars in all of racing.

If we continued along about the same path as what we are on now I would like to allow teams more creative license with aero bits, and take away most of the rules limiting engine tech. If you have to limit them to one engine configuration fine, but at least give them back their variable engine maps, and lit them rev as high as they want. I believe that more engine failures would make the sport more interesting. Have any of the major teams had an engine fail this year?

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:30 PM

I think its because of the engine freeze. When the new engine regs kick in 2014, they'll be engine development again. It's boring because all we really hear are aero developments. I just wish they didn't restrict the revs.

I still think F1 is exciting to watch though.
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#10 User is offline   ytdlite 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:39 PM

 sparrow, on 28 October 2011 - 08:46 AM, said:

I'm too young to remember the late 80's early 90's of F1 but was there more passing then? All of the videos I see of old races it seems as if prost/senna/mansell and others were ALWAYS dicing it up. Now like you said after the first 2 laps its horrible to watch. Were the engines unrestricted in configuration 20 yrs ago?


as you can see from the responses that we all want to see more of the cars dicing it up through out the whole race. the cars back then were not as bullet proof mechanically, everything was as light as could be, engines were tossed away after each race. at times drivers had to soldier on with cars that were broken but still able to race for their positions with it. also many more dnfs. like fishfryer said, it was a great mix of engine technology racing flat out. miss the all out qualifying spec engine/car setup also drivers running for the back up car.
currently i do enjoy watching the coverage of the more evenly matched mid field teams during the races.
A current Formula One engine is over 20% more efficient at turning fuel into power than most small commuter cars, considering their craftsmanship.
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Posted 30 October 2011 - 06:51 PM

I've only seen the fringes of F1, but am developing an interest in it. How can I watch it? I don't have cable or satellite so maybe I'm toast, but is anything online that I can watch live or delayed?
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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:40 PM

let me pose it differently.
which would you rather watch, a field with 5 or 6 cars dicing it up for the lead with numerous changes or parade of extremely fast cars, where the race is effectively decided in qualifying?

speed is important but only relative to the other competitors.
With the Dan Wheldon tragedy, we've sadly seen what pure speed can bring forth.
F1 needs to keep the cars at the edge of control but not over.
The human reaction time dictates the capability they can cope with.

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 12:03 AM

Im sick of seeing Redbull and Vettell Dominate F1 in recent years...has become a yawn fest. 2009 was a great season bring back Brawn GP! :)

I also miss the sound of those beautiful v10's screeming to 20,000 rpms and pitstops! I wonder if Honda will ever come back into the fray, at least as an engine supplier (fingers crossed).

#14 User is offline   luder_5555 

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 02:04 AM

Quote

let me pose it differently.
which would you rather watch, a field with 5 or 6 cars dicing it up for the lead with numerous changes or parade of extremely fast cars, where the race is effectively decided in qualifying?

speed is important but only relative to the other competitors.
With the Dan Wheldon tragedy, we've sadly seen what pure speed can bring forth.
F1 needs to keep the cars at the edge of control but not over.
The human reaction time dictates the capability they can cope with.


I agree with what you are saying, but how do you get to that point? They have IMO already over-regulated what they can do to the cars. I honestly believe that if teams were given a little more wiggle room they could develop cars that were different from each other. This would make a series where certain cars had advantages at different tracks, and at different parts of each track. If you give them very strict rules that they have to follow it comes down to who can perfect those specific things the best. This mean that whatever team has Newey wins... I realize that the same would likely be true if they were given free reign, but perhaps there would be enough differences in the cars to make it more exciting. That or just ban Newey? :shrug:

#15 User is offline   ytdlite 

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Posted 09 November 2011 - 11:09 AM

 luder_5555, on 09 November 2011 - 02:04 AM, said:

Quote

let me pose it differently.
which would you rather watch, a field with 5 or 6 cars dicing it up for the lead with numerous changes or parade of extremely fast cars, where the race is effectively decided in qualifying?

speed is important but only relative to the other competitors.
With the Dan Wheldon tragedy, we've sadly seen what pure speed can bring forth.
F1 needs to keep the cars at the edge of control but not over.
The human reaction time dictates the capability they can cope with.


I agree with what you are saying, but how do you get to that point? They have IMO already over-regulated what they can do to the cars. I honestly believe that if teams were given a little more wiggle room they could develop cars that were different from each other. This would make a series where certain cars had advantages at different tracks, and at different parts of each track. If you give them very strict rules that they have to follow it comes down to who can perfect those specific things the best. This mean that whatever team has Newey wins... I realize that the same would likely be true if they were given free reign, but perhaps there would be enough differences in the cars to make it more exciting. That or just ban Newey? :shrug:


agree about over regulation, specifically limited number of engines and trannies that must run several races and the ban on testing. disagree, the cars are different from each other now, rb/newey/vettel is no way the same as hrt or even the mid -field teams. f1 has 2 or 3 series on track at the same time and as teams make changes they move up and down from one to the other.

#16 User is offline   SimonRL 

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 10:59 AM

I've been watching Formula 1 since the late 70s and it has always been like this regardless of the regs or rules. There have literally been hundreds of small teams that have come and gone while an elite few - predominantly McLaren and Ferrari clean up. For the last 30-40 years Formula 1 has always been about a couple of teams kicking ass while everyone else fought for the crumbs. That's why you've seen so many rule changes and different engine formulas over the years - to make the show better. But of course it doesn't get better because the boffins always find a way to level the playing field. It wasn't better racing because engines blew up or had 1200hp, or there were multiple tire suppliers. It was still mainly Ferrari and McLaren on the podium, with the occasional look in from Williams and Renault - and once upon a time teams called Tyrell and Brabham. I think you really have to go back to the sixties when a private team could buy a Ferrari, Lotus, or a BRM and go racing. Of course in those days the cars killed as many drivers as they made heroes.

What about Piquet and Mansell, Senna and Prost, Vileneuve and Arnoux people say. When Senna was demolishing the record books it was downright boring. No different than Vettel today. And before the recent movie Senna always came across as a total douchebag. People complained that Prost made it look too easy! Mansell was hard to like - and I'm English. And Piquet? Well the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

Really, IMHO one of the most interesting drivers was Patrick Tambay who always had something pithy and interesting to say to the cameras - not unlike Vettel - instead of sounding like a corporate drone, but Tambay never won bushels of races or a world championship so he's a side note in F1 history. Sir Jackie Stewart was a great quote and a multiple world champion, but sadly suffered from a lack of TV coverage.

I watch Formula 1 for the legend. For Ferrari and McLaren. For Spa and Silverstone. For AGIP and Hugo Boss. Not for Penske and Ganassi; St Petersburg and Loudon. Not for Target and ABC Supply Co. And certainly not for a winners podium that has to be towed into place by a tractor.

Oh, and if you don't like Red Bull because it's just a marketing device what do you think the FIAT owned team is? I'm sure some day people will tell the legend of the Red Bull the way they do Il Cavallino Rampante.
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#17 User is offline   Triple-H 

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:58 PM

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Posted 26 March 2012 - 07:20 AM

Well fish just shot himself in the foot, because MALAYSIA GRAND PRIX was an awesome race!

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 04:58 PM

 Triple-H, on 26 March 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Well fish just shot himself in the foot, because MALAYSIA GRAND PRIX was an awesome race!

:thumbup: :thumbup: One of the most exciting races i've ever seen!
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#20 User is offline   Triple-H 

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Posted 29 March 2012 - 03:09 PM

 Stephenopoly, on 27 March 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

 Triple-H, on 26 March 2012 - 07:20 AM, said:

Well fish just shot himself in the foot, because MALAYSIA GRAND PRIX was an awesome race!

:thumbup: :thumbup: One of the most exciting races i've ever seen!


Yup, I always love it when the underdog wins!
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Posted 29 March 2012 - 05:16 PM

Revving a car to 17k rpm for almost every part of the track is definitely an engineering win. They still do blow up as observed from the last race with Maldanado. I know with MotoGP, the engineers are able to program the bikes on the fly to over-rev for a couple of laps but even then it could get sketchy. F1 is about consistency, aero superiority, and tire management. It does get boring when the same German wins over and over again but I think this season, it won't be a runaway championship since the teams are much closer together than in the past. We'll just have to let the season develop and see how the teams adapt to the R&D race.
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Posted 08 April 2012 - 02:20 PM

Speaking of the old days....

You know what was exciting? No speed limits in the pits!


Now that was exciting. Seeing the cars go down pit lane, and remember, in F1 there is no "pit wall", at 120mph was awesome.

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:07 AM

 davidc1, on 08 April 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Speaking of the old days....

You know what was exciting? No speed limits in the pits!


Now that was exciting. Seeing the cars go down pit lane, and remember, in F1 there is no "pit wall", at 120mph was awesome.

Not sure I find the idea of a race car slamming into a crew member at 120 mph exciting.
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#24 User is offline   davidc1 

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:40 PM

 SimonRL, on 17 November 2011 - 10:59 AM, said:

I've been watching Formula 1 since the late 70s and it has always been like this regardless of the regs or rules. There have literally been hundreds of small teams that have come and gone while an elite few - predominantly McLaren and Ferrari clean up. For the last 30-40 years Formula 1 has always been about a couple of teams kicking ass while everyone else fought for the crumbs. That's why you've seen so many rule changes and different engine formulas over the years - to make the show better. But of course it doesn't get better because the boffins always find a way to level the playing field. It wasn't better racing because engines blew up or had 1200hp, or there were multiple tire suppliers. It was still mainly Ferrari and McLaren on the podium, with the occasional look in from Williams and Renault - and once upon a time teams called Tyrell and Brabham. I think you really have to go back to the sixties when a private team could buy a Ferrari, Lotus, or a BRM and go racing. Of course in those days the cars killed as many drivers as they made heroes.

What about Piquet and Mansell, Senna and Prost, Vileneuve and Arnoux people say. When Senna was demolishing the record books it was downright boring. No different than Vettel today. And before the recent movie Senna always came across as a total douchebag. People complained that Prost made it look too easy! Mansell was hard to like - and I'm English. And Piquet? Well the apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

Really, IMHO one of the most interesting drivers was Patrick Tambay who always had something pithy and interesting to say to the cameras - not unlike Vettel - instead of sounding like a corporate drone, but Tambay never won bushels of races or a world championship so he's a side note in F1 history. Sir Jackie Stewart was a great quote and a multiple world champion, but sadly suffered from a lack of TV coverage.

I watch Formula 1 for the legend. For Ferrari and McLaren. For Spa and Silverstone. For AGIP and Hugo Boss. Not for Penske and Ganassi; St Petersburg and Loudon. Not for Target and ABC Supply Co. And certainly not for a winners podium that has to be towed into place by a tractor.

Oh, and if you don't like Red Bull because it's just a marketing device what do you think the FIAT owned team is? I'm sure some day people will tell the legend of the Red Bull the way they do Il Cavallino Rampante.


I agree with everything you say....until the last paragraph. Red Bull is hardly a legend. While the have been dominating lately, that's only been a couple of years. Also, I though Senna and Prost and Honda dominating was exciting, primarily because there wasn't overregulation back then. But I though Schui dominating was one of the most boring times in the history of ALL motorsports.

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 04:42 PM

 Voodoo_S2K, on 12 April 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

 davidc1, on 08 April 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

Speaking of the old days....

You know what was exciting? No speed limits in the pits!


Now that was exciting. Seeing the cars go down pit lane, and remember, in F1 there is no "pit wall", at 120mph was awesome.

Not sure I find the idea of a race car slamming into a crew member at 120 mph exciting.




That is defiantly "exciting", but not desirable.

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