[KingRevo]

Are we allowed to have an open discussion about the future of S2k owners clubs for the UK here?

If this post isn’t censored, I think there’s a very valid discussion to be had, and I know I’m not the only one by a long stretch who has thought about this.

Firstly, the “S2UK” side of things is now totally irrelevant. Any legacy benefits are entirely token and available freely elsewhere. A unnecessary layer of complication. Scrap it, or move away and make a UK independent online identity.

Next up we have S2ki, since the forum move last year it’s been a shambles. Poor performance and buggy/absent forum features. We’ve had issues opened for months in the support section with no progress and seemingly no one on staff who knows what they are doing. Really terrible software and a total disregard to support of the users who are (or have been) paying for said service.

Charging for membership / limiting features? Again - totally unneeded. Why charge people to be able to make a for sale thread? All this does is limit the choice and creates a closed market on the forum. Some common-sense moderation would weed out any trouble makers in selling areas. Same with the “no ebay links” rule. Why? Arbitrary “rules for the sake of rules” just makes people shake their heads and lose respect for the forum.

Other listed benefits include things such as “more PM space” and “custom avatar” - again these are free things built into ALL Forum software and cost nothing extra for the forum owner. It's like buying a TV and charging extra to have a volume button on it. Basic, standard stuff.

All “deals” you will find you get with traders whether you are a paid member or not. They simply do not care to check. Maybe there was a point in time when they did, but in this day and age traders are just happy to be able to advertise on a busy owners club and will not reject business because you don’t show a membership card, etc.

Let’s face it, web hosting costs peanuts these days. That coupled with the OTT advert banners, there’s really no need at all to charge for membership. It just stinks of greed.

Sorry to come across as negative, the forum obviously has some great people and really informative threads on it, but again this is all user-generated and easily transferable (potentially).


As someone who has successfully run and been involved with a number of community and car related forums in the past, I know we (as a strong UK S2000 owners community) could do a LOT better than we are right now. There’s also no reason why we can’t run a high quality forum software package, with everything (including all the extra “features” you pay for on here), 100% open and 100% free.


So in a nutshell my question is, am I alone in thinking like this? Maybe you simply don't care? Do you think that we could (and should) do better?


Thanks for listening,
Rich

[GaryB]

I figure I get $20 of value from the FS threads and image hosting so was happy to renew.

I don't believe I get the value out of subscribing to the S2KUK bit so I don't.

You pays your money, you take your choice.

As for what it gets spent on (Web hosting/software/whatever), I don't base any other purchasing decisions on what the seller/service provider spends it's money on providing I get vlaue from the product or service they are offering.

Like any service/product, it has it's faults and could do better but it's worth $20 annualy to me personally. If it's not worth it to you, don't pay it.

[The Loon]

The Club runs a number of events throughout the year for members. One of the events is an airfield day which is subsidised for paid members. Paid members receive a discounted entry to the airfield day. The saving is approximately £10 off the list price. The annual cost of S2k UK membership is £10.00. Membership of S2k UK, IMO is a no-brainer and worth every penny.

[lovegroova]

You should probably be posting your s2ki complaints in "Site Info", rather than here. I'll not move the thread, but some copying and pasting on your part might get more results.

I do agree that the forum software is very poor at present and the new owners seem to be struggling to get a handle on it.

Having said that, there are currently 40 members and 18 guests on here, so it seems the majority are happy enough to pay £12.60 per year.

Ebay links to items that are not being sold by the poster are allowed outside of the For Sale forum, as outlined in a recent thread.

Dealer discounts on servicing and parts have typically only been given to me on production of an S2KUK membership card. I've saved hundreds of pounds as a result.

[loftust]

KingRevo, on 20 February 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Charging for membership / limiting features? Again - totally unneeded. Why charge people to be able to make a for sale thread?

I'd rather purchase something off someone who has a history with the site, than off someone who has only joined the site to sell stuff. It's a bit like eBay, where you can check their selling history. Charging for this facility puts off the opportunist seller.

KingRevo, on 20 February 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

Other listed benefits include things such as “more PM space” and “custom avatar” - again these are free things built into ALL Forum software and cost nothing extra for the forum owner. It's like buying a TV and charging extra to have a volume button on it. Basic, standard stuff.

I have no doubt that the owner is doing this to make money rather than provide a service.

[s2k4tony]

Agree with Gary and.... TBH the forum is doing well, I think though at times it does lack a bit of moderation with some characters...the one's that hang around with a million posts to their name and feel like a deputy mod (and probably play on the Gassing Station at the same time). Not just in the selling areas... argumentative characters are my pet hate. If the heat increased on a thread by a cocky, silly comment, slap them with a ban. I understand though, moderation must be tough
Other than those smart alecs, I'm fine with the site and can't see myself breaking away from here. Its the holy grail for the S2000 and I need this site in my life if i'm to continue ownership. From what i've read over the last 12months, LG and MB have been amazing at advice and cannot praise them enough. The meets, FS stuff and help to others is utterly brilliant.

[AlexMeineck]

Rich, you really dont want to pay the joining fee do you.

I am not a member, although i would happily pay for the advice I have received from users on the forum.

I have had no need to post in the for sale section becuase I use ebay, however I see no problem in them forum charging, it may not cost much for the small items you have mentioned to the owners/staff, but it does take time.

[KingRevo]

Actually I did pay it for my first year, and was quite impressed, then the forum software changed and it all went downhill. After which you start questioning what you are actually getting for your bucks. Especially with the amount of adverts the site runs, (frankly, hilarious) trader fees etc. Clearly a lot of time has been spent in monetising the forum, but not so much in creating a good user experience.

I appreciate the value of service argument, rather than the sum of all the parts though. And don't get me wrong the UK mods here do a great job, never had any issues on that front. I guess I'm just a stickler for if somethings worth doing it's worth doing right and there's huge room for improvement

[RevRanger]

I lost £10 from my wallet last year so couldn't afford to join S2KUK!

I've frozen my sons pocket money to pay for S2ki

[Suits]

The fee shouldn't exist IMO, the forum fee's don't warrant the charge IMO.

I know this from my time running www.Type-R-Owners.co.uk

That said, I don't know what the owner subscribes too etc, but in the 10 years since the site was set up, as said, the costs have reduced.

However, I paid, only so that I could buy a few things in the for sale section. The other information is freely available, for me I got fed up of being frustrated by for sale rule and paid up.

The airfield discount day thing, as mentioned, is far from any reason as to why to join up, but it's a reason I suppose if you're aware of it and live within reachable distance.

We're here and pay because it's the largest user based/community for S2000 owners in the UK. Number of members, threads and posts is king in this instance and always will be.

You won't break a 10 year plus old forum.

Whether that's a good or a bad thing is up to you.

[s2konroids]

RevRanger, on 20 February 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

I lost £10 from my wallet last year so couldn't afford to join S2KUK!

I've frozen my sons pocket money to pay for S2ki

[mr-pitts]

I don't have a problem with paying the fee... A friend of mine is on the Vxr forum and if you see the what seem Un modderated posts on there it's like reading 5 year olds having an argument.

Just going off the help and advice I have received off other members, I feel ike I'm getting value for money.

I don't think
It's over modded, I like the idea text speak is picked up on.I do get the odd wrist slap but being dislexic I actually see it as praise and encouragement.Only joking but you get my drift.

With being very young minded, all the shinney colorful adds actually point me in the right direction for my OCD buying obsession.

On a lighter note all the gay innuendo make for a light hearted, but helpful forum, which I enjoy being a part of.

[s2konroids]

I guess if people are not happy, just start another forum up or don't pay.

The toyota yaris club did this many years ago, i thought it wouldn't work TBH and its grown massively!

I think largely the forum is okay there are some issues and a little bit of money making going on, I know MB is petitioning for a gay only section so he will be happy as the only 's2gay' on the forum.

[mr-pitts]

Gay???? I rest my case.

[Ultra_Nexus]

The free user actually has quite a good useage here. Another forum I use doesn't even allow guest users to search, let alone PM or FS section!!

Blatchat (For Caterhams) is a complete lock out unless you pay subs.

S2ki.com can do whatever they want to be honest - it's their site. So we either put up with it or move on. That's not meant to sound nasty BTW, it's just a case of what is.

[AquilaEagle]

Feel free to discuss S2KI here, but you'd be better off putting your thoughts on S2KI in the Site Info forum, where it will get read by the S2KI owners - Internet Brands. They are the sole decision makers on things like advertising and member fees. Neither the UK Mods, or me have any decision making powers like that - we are voluntary 'helpers'.

S2KUK is also handing over the management of UK Traders on S2KI to IB.

As for S2KUK, there is a dedicated discussion area to offer opinions, ideas or discuss anything about the UK S2000 Owners Club here: http://www.s2kuk.com...-discussion.php Or if you want to talk to the committee directly their details are also on the s2kuk site.

[s2k4tony]

Is there a point to this "reputation" meter that we all have? That itself is open to discussion

[AquilaEagle]

s2k4tony, on 20 February 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Is there a point to this "reputation" meter that we all have? That itself is open to discussion

That was implemented by the previous owners of S2KI, personally I don't like how it is abused and pay pretty much no attention to it.

[s2k4tony]

AquilaEagle, on 20 February 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

s2k4tony, on 20 February 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

Is there a point to this "reputation" meter that we all have? That itself is open to discussion

That was implemented by the previous owners of S2KI, personally I don't like how it is abused and pay pretty much no attention to it.

It's quite sad to see some people gang up on you, it gets abused no end. It appears on other forums, their tends to be a notion of poking new members in the eye with things like this.
Forums need creativity, not Troll meters... alot of the time, the trolls themselves "score you down". God it must make them feel soooooo happy to mark you a negative. its very, very shallow. It needs ridding.

[KingRevo]

Aaaah, its run by a company called "internet brands", nothing to do with actual S2k enthusiasts then? Explains it all. Guess they gave the original site designer a nice cheque and now its time to milk this bitch while they can

And yeah, the classic "if you don't like it, dont pay" thing stands true and I know it's not a huge amount of money. Just the principal of it I guess. I've always seen car clubs as a community benefit thing - i.e. fair play if the money is going back into projects to help the club etc, but not to line the pockets of some generic internet company who happened to make a good buy at the right time, it seems.

[rhauri]

I'm a very new S2000 owner but I have only ever owned enthusiast cars and as a result I always like to be involved in the owners community / forums.

When delving into the S2000 UK Owners community, I was surprised to find that the UK Owners club didn't have its own forum and that you had to register on a separate site (this one) for the forum; which also incurs the potential double-fee (which I have actually paid).

When I use this forum I only ever look at the UK section as I find any other threads (i.e. ones from USA members) are often irrelevant or not applicable for various reasons. But then, I am only one user of many, and if the majority of UK users enjoy the international aspect / reason for consolidating the forums to one site, then I guess it makes sense.

Ideally I'd love it if the Owners Club and the Forum were both based on www.s2kuk.com as it is a fantastic looking site and really well made; Owners Club paid for and use of the Forum free.

That's my 2p's worth anyways!

[white knight]

The Loon, on 20 February 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

The Club runs a number of events throughout the year for members. One of the events is an airfield day which is subsidised for paid members. Paid members receive a discounted entry to the airfield day. The saving is approximately £10 off the list price. The annual cost of S2k UK membership is £10.00. Membership of S2k UK, IMO is a no-brainer and worth every penny.

Money well spent...

[kim-s2k]

I believe that the fee is worth it. I've made some good friends
on here and I know that the admins put in a good amount of work
out of their own time and convenience.

[dan_bourne]

I've been lurking on here for a long time now, and I only recently paid for membership because of the forsale section.

I can't really tell what my money has gone on tbh, but for the sake of £13 it's not too bad.

The best forum out there IMO is the sxoc, the way that is run is brilliant, no one is trolling, people can freely ask questions (as long as theyve used the search button) and everyone is on had to give advice, there does seem to be an element of 'I've been on here longer than you, I'm the daddy' etc etc here which is a shame as it does have a lot (lots and lots) of good people. The owners of this one could have a look at that to implement some great changes.

The no eBay links one is a bit of a weird one, maybe I just haven't been around long enough to understand why that was implemented in the first place, but i dont see a reason that is(was) there at all!

aside from that, great forum and I'm happy

Dan

[AquilaEagle]

KingRevo, on 20 February 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

Aaaah, its run by a company called "internet brands", nothing to do with actual S2k enthusiasts then? Explains it all. Guess they gave the original site designer a nice cheque and now its time to milk this bitch while they can

And yeah, the classic "if you don't like it, dont pay" thing stands true and I know it's not a huge amount of money. Just the principal of it I guess. I've always seen car clubs as a community benefit thing - i.e. fair play if the money is going back into projects to help the club etc, but not to line the pockets of some generic internet company who happened to make a good buy at the right time, it seems.

S2KI is and always has been a business, even for the founders (although they were enthusiasts and still are). But it was built around the community and community spirit. IB only recently took over - see Announcements forum, but they own lots of community websites, and in particular automotive ones.

S2KUK is all about the money going back in to help the club - it funds meets and events, runs competitions, prize draws, and raises a lot for charity. All of this is described on the S2KUK website. (It is the reason S2KUK was set up back in 2004)