[Hickey322]

Every time I change my oil, it contains a lot of gas. I can smell it and the oil is always black, even if I change it after 1500 miles. I use 5w30 Castrol Edge w/Syntec. I am thinking it could be my keepers or retainers. There is no smoke from my exhaust. Any ideas?

[rob-2]

Send it off to be tested. This sounds highly unscientific.

[Hickey322]

What would the testing do for me, confirm the gas in the oil? I can smell a strong gas odor, so I know it's there. I know a nose is not the most accurate scientific instrument, but it does work. Would sending for analysis help diagnose my problem of how the gas is getting there?

[speedjunky01]

Compression test it dres to rent from autozone.

Bad rings is about the only way aside from valve stem seals or valve guides on the intake side that it can get into the oil.

[slalom44]

Do you idle your engine for long periods?

At BITOG, I have heard this called the "Soccer Mom Effect". Soccer moms will sit at theri kid's soccer game with their engine running, causing excessive fuel dilution. Lots of cold starts and no long highway runs will contribute to this as well.

[JFUSION]

like rob-2 said you can only tell by having the oil sample tested. Almost every used oil I've sniffed has smelled like gasoline, yet I've never had any significant fuel % listed in my oil samples.

Keepers and retainers have no effect on fuel in oil, it would be more related to blow-by and rich fuel mixtures. I'm willing to be you are fine, but have your used oil analyzed, it's the only way to know.

This post has been edited by JFUSION: 21 February 2012 - 07:55 PM

[RedY2KS2k]

Hickey322, on 21 February 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

Every time I change my oil, it contains a lot of gas. I can smell it and the oil is always black, even if I change it after 1500 miles. I use 5w30 Castrol Edge w/Syntec. I am thinking it could be my keepers or retainers. There is no smoke from my exhaust. Any ideas?

Why would you think it's your keepers or retainers? Please explain your logic.

This post has been edited by RedY2KS2k: 21 February 2012 - 10:13 PM

[SpitfireS]

slalom44, on 21 February 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Do you idle your engine for long periods?

At BITOG, I have heard this called the "Soccer Mom Effect". Soccer moms will sit at theri kid's soccer game with their engine running, causing excessive fuel dilution. Lots of cold starts and no long highway runs will contribute to this as well.

And then, when Soccer Mom's car does get on the highway, like going on a holiday or a weekend trip, they find themselves with low oil level at the first fuel station.
All the fuel and water has evaporated, it was keeping the oil level "normal" during the week.
Assuming Soccer Mom's husband checkes the oil every now and then

So.. next time OP goes for an oil change: drive for at least an hour / 60 miles, get some temp in the engine & oil.
Change oil & smell.

A quick & easy valve stem seal check: warm engine, accelerate in 2nd / 3rd to redline, then engine brake to idle revs, get back on the throttle and look for blue smoke in rear view mirror.
Retainers and keepers have nothing to do with this.

[Hickey322]

Thanks for the replies. I am still learning about this engine (and engines in general), and was confused as to what the keepers and retainers actually do. I've heard of AP1 intake retainers getting busted (I still have my stock retainers) and figured this could be related.

I do not idle the car for long periods of time. My car used to burn a lot of oil (2 qts+ between changes with Mobile 1), but since I've switched to Castrol Edge it burns less than a qt between oil changes.

I plan to send the oil for analysis next oil change. I have the oil from my last change in my oil container, would sitting for two months in the plastic container affect the results? I will also try the valve stem check that Spitfire suggested.

Thanks again everyone!

[Back S2k]

any reason y u r using 5w30?

[Hickey322]

http://www.s2ki.com/...w30+cold+starts

[JFUSION]

Hickey322, on 22 February 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

Thanks for the replies. I am still learning about this engine (and engines in general), and was confused as to what the keepers and retainers actually do. I've heard of AP1 intake retainers getting busted (I still have my stock retainers) and figured this could be related.

I do not idle the car for long periods of time. My car used to burn a lot of oil (2 qts+ between changes with Mobile 1), but since I've switched to Castrol Edge it burns less than a qt between oil changes.

I plan to send the oil for analysis next oil change. I have the oil from my last change in my oil container, would sitting for two months in the plastic container affect the results? I will also try the valve stem check that Spitfire suggested.

Thanks again everyone!

Good idea on the oil analysis. You can still send in your sample, it might have a high silicon content from dust and dirt the oil may have picked but I wouldn't worry about it.

Don't stress about the retainers on this car, as long as they haven't been abused they can last the life of the vehicle. It's a good idea to inspect them if you aren't the original owner.

[ikeyballz]

If you're hard on the throttle at low RPMS you also force the car to run rich - possibly contributing to fuel in the oil. You're also probably changing your oil much too frequently (1500 miles? thats like every 7 tanks of fuel!)

[SpitfireS]

What mpg are you getting, btw.
If the mpg is not much worse than what OEM cars get (search for it) it could all be normal.

Are we talking about the "2010-Current MY02 GPW/red, black door inserts, invidia n1 + test pipe" in your sig?
So you're running without sec. O2 sensor and with a CEL fix?
I've seen many posts of people noticing gas smell out of the exhaust with a test pipe.
So maybe the test pipe & constant sec. O2 value changes how the ECU thinks the engine runs, making it run extra rich?
The prim. O2 and ECU decide the fuel mapping, ect. depending on the throttle input - as far as I know - but who knows what the sec. O2 exactly does?
I've been running with a faulty sec O2 for a while (DD - 130 km a day) and did notice a slight change in fuel consumption, as in, it went up.

Does the old oil still smell like gas, even after sitting for 2 months?
If it doesn't a UOA of that old oil probably would show less dilution / flashpoint change.

Air filter/sparkplugs is/are in good condition?
(basically normal maintenance)

And yes, a 1500 mile OCI is kinda short, but I assume you did this to investigate?

[Hickey322]

That's correct I run a test pipe with CEL fix. I'm getting about 23-25 mpg, which I consider normal for a mixture of highway and city. The old oil does still smell like gasoline, but not as bad as when I first took it out of the car. Sparkplugs and air filter are both in good condition. I typically change my oil at ~4000 miles, but it kept coming out so nasty I decided to try it at 1500 just to see. It was black.

I've decided to send the old oil and oil currently in my car for analysis. Is there a company someone recommends, or is that something typically done local? Thanks everyone this is a big help!

[spets]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

[2003AP1]

I think its normal. If your not having any issues and the test comes back within spec its just normal. Small amounts of unburnt fuel gets into the crankcase sometimes. Cleaning your PCV is a good idea, and may reduce the smell a bit.

[slalom44]

Hickey322, on 23 February 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

That's correct I run a test pipe with CEL fix.....

Test pipe? Missing Oxygen sensor? There's your problem. Your engine is running rich.

[Hickey322]

slalom44, on 23 February 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Hickey322, on 23 February 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

That's correct I run a test pipe with CEL fix.....

Test pipe? Missing Oxygen sensor? There's your problem. Your engine is running rich.

So how do people get away with running a TP with the CEL fix? I plugged my o2 sensor into the CEL fix, which goes into the TP. It could very well be the problem, but so many other people do this too. Do they all run rich? And if I continue, will it cause harm to my engine?

[ipopvtec]

Your fuel pressure regulator is f@#ked. Get a new one.

[Hickey322]

ipopvtec, on 24 February 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

Your fuel pressure regulator is f@#ked. Get a new one.

Hmm. I do not have black smoke, fouled spark plugs, rough idle, poor fuel economy, the typical symptoms of a fuel pressure regulator.

[ikeyballz]

slalom44, on 23 February 2012 - 11:03 PM, said:

Hickey322, on 23 February 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

That's correct I run a test pipe with CEL fix.....

Test pipe? Missing Oxygen sensor? There's your problem. Your engine is running rich.

Slalom, I think the secondary 02 doesn't determine if the system is running rich or not, the primary one does. The 2ndary is just to check that the catalytic converter is working properly, right?

[JFUSION]

the rear o2 sensor checks the efficiency of the cat by measuring the difference in the air stream after the first 02 sensor, if there isn't a difference in readings between the two sensors then it throws a code as it thinks the cat. conv. is no longer effective. If there is an improvement in the air stream and readings between the two sensors then the cat. conv. is working as intended. The second cat doesn't determine air fuel mixtures.

BTW, the OP still has no evidence of his car running rich. Unless you check the plugs, get an air-fuel reading, or analyze your used oil there is no reason to believe the car is running rich solely based on oil "smell".

This post has been edited by JFUSION: 25 February 2012 - 09:14 AM

[Hawkeye_AP1]

There are only a handful of ways you are going to get fuel into the crankcase. Many have been mentioned, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the possiblity of a fuel injector that is not seating all the way from time to time. If it were sticking open all the time, I would think you would have driveability/idle issues or even DTC's for misfires or overly rich mixtures at your primary O2, but you said you don't have that. If an injector failed to full seat when you shut the engine off, it is going to bleed of the existing rail pressure letting fuel into the cylinder, and then into the crankcase.

This post has been edited by Hawkeye_AP1: 24 February 2012 - 09:16 PM

[INDYMAC]

Hickey322, on 21 February 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

What would the testing do for me, confirm the gas in the oil? I can smell a strong gas odor, so I know it's there. I know a nose is not the most accurate scientific instrument, but it does work. Would sending for analysis help diagnose my problem of how the gas is getting there?

Gasoline has a very strong distinctive smell. It doesn't take much in the oil to smell it. If you want to know how much is getting in your oil (fuel dilution %) and whether it's normal, then you'll have to do oil analysis. I would not recommend using Blackstone Labs for tuning your engine. Their method for testing fuel is not accurate enough for this purpose. I would recommend Polaris Labs or Dyson Analysis. Polaris will give you the more accurate data you need, but you'll have to interpret the data yourself. Dyson will give you all the data you need, plus a professional interpretation if you want it.

Good luck!