[shamusodoofus]

So I have a court date tomorrow morning and I'm unsure what to expect from this. The charge that I am disputing is an expired license plate renewal sticker. Normally, I wouldn't mind forking over the amount listed on the ticket but I've found that this will affect my insurance and being a 20 year old with both a Prelude and an S2000, the premium increase will be quite ridiculous.

The closest thing to traffic court I have attended was a first attendance meeting to dispute an expired insurance card and I just went in with a t-shirt and plaid shorts and the prosecutor just heard my 2 minute story about how I got the ticket and threw the ticket out completely and sent me on my way. I imagine a court scenario will be different.

My question to those who have attended traffic court or know a thing or two is: What should I expect? What should I wear?

[matt-p]

if the cop doesnt show up, they will throw it out.

if the cop does show up, prepare to lawyer up. when i went the cop showed up. i had a ticket for supposedly cutting off an undercover cop at burnhamthrope and mclaughlin BUT McLaughlin doesnt even cross burnhamthrope (technically it does cause it turns into confederation). so i won easily, just make your case, sound confident, and you should stand a good chance. this is a small ticket compared to other huge convictions

This post has been edited by matt-p: 21 February 2012 - 11:00 PM

[fahims2k]

go 30 mins before court starts talk to the prosecutor show them the new sticker tell them u made a mistake it won't happen again either they will trow it out or reduce the fine.i do this all the time only minor convictions..no need to hire anyone.just dress up and look sorry lol good luck

[kryptonite]

I had a ticket for careless driving last year. Showed up at court in jeans and a shirt ... Not overdressed but not too casual.

By the way cops are now required by law to attend court. They can only leave upon advice of the prosecutor. I totally agree with fahim, no need for a lawyer, just be apologetic and say you're sorry and that it wont happen again. Making excuses like I forgot about it wont help as its pretty much the go to lie for most people.

I would usually say fight it but if the cop documented the situation and you were seen without a valid sticker, its a pretty clear cut case.

Try speaking with the attourney and getting the charge reduced.

With Desjardin, it was weird they cared more if there was a fine than the demerit points... not sure if it was just me hearing my agent wrong or something to do with Desjardin specifically.

Also if you are with someone else and your rates do spike, desjardin has a one offense forgiveness policy. They do however require pictures of your car every year and a list of all modifications when they happen.

[Seymor Butts]

Soooooooo much mis-information in here its nuts.

First thing's first - cops are not required by any law to attend court. Unless something has changed that I do not know about please show me this law.

Second thing, its not a prosecutor or attorney, its The Crown. We are in Canada and we have our own names for this stuff.

Second of all, court works like this: you show up, you line up with everyone else to speak to The Crown. When your turn comes up, tell him or her your name. Once they locate your paper work, ask if your officer is there. Here's a BIG tip for you: The Crown has no time to listen to your story as they need to get to everyone in the court room, now think that times 3 or 4 for the day and then 5 days for the week, etc. Be short and precise; something like "My sticker had expired and I did not realize it until it was too late. I did get a new one the following day, here's my receipt." That story there is more than enough. They will ask you if you want to challenge the officer in court (assuming he or she is there). Since you have no real evidence to challenge the officer, take a guilty plea which will usually be reduced by about 30% or so. Depends on The Crown and how they feel to be honest.

Now here is something you did NOT know about probably. In some municipalities the officers are still handing out hand written tickets. In these cases, more often than you think there is no evidence to support the charge. What's the evidence? Right after the officer has pulled you over and issued you a ticket, or sometimes during, they pull out their little pocket sized notebook and make notes on the incident. What they write in there is all up to the officer really - there is some-what of a standard. That evidence, in court, is called disclosure. If you would have asked earlier I would have suggested this to you - its too late now but for those of you reading this may be helpful.

Once you get your court date, go back to the court ASAP and find the counter where you can request this disclosure. You may have to ask around - its usually in some dimly lit place in the basement. Hidden almost. Fill out the form requesting a disclosure and have them stamp it and give you a photo copy of it for proof that you requested this. DO NOT lose this paper!

Scenario A: If there is disclosure, they call you some time after and you go back and pick it up. At this time you have the chance to review what evidence they have against you and make your judgement call if you should challenge the officer or not, or maybe even consult legal help at this point if you wish.

Scenario B: You do not get called about your disclosure being ready for pick up and show up in court for your court date checking in with The Crown. You ask them if your officer is here, then state to them that you had requested the disclosure on x date and have not got it yet (this is why its important to do it right as soon as you get your court date in the mail). If you need to, state that since there is no evidence against you that you believe the charges should be dropped; but usually you don't even need to do that - they know what's up at that point.

Sometimes, The Crown will be like "oh here it is for you now" at which point you will have to ask for an adjournment - meaning move your court date to another date. They have to grant this to you without giving you any hassle since you have not had time to review the disclosure properly and consult legal advice.

All in all, it really helps to know the legal system.

[Seymor Butts]

In addition:

Insurance companies DO NOT care about demerit points. They mean nothing to them. Its the fine itself. Why? The purpose of those points isn't for insurance company uses - its for MTO uses to keep track of you so that if you get enough points in one time, you will lose your license.

Demerit Points vs. Charges.

Demerit points are kept on your record for a total of 2 years from the date of OFFENCE.
Charges are kept on your record for a total of 3-6 years (depending on charge) from the date of CONVICTION.

What this means is that if I got a ticket for going 20 over on January 1st 2000, that's 3 demerit points. Say I took it to court and got convicted on January 1, 2001. At this point, the demerit points will stay on my record for only a year more. The charge however, starts to count down from this day. My 3 demerit points that I got will be on my record until January 1, 2002; whereas my charge itself will be on my record until January 1, 2004.

http://www.mto.gov.o...r/demerit.shtml

[shamusodoofus]

I appreciate everyone's advice, especially Seymor's. What I experienced was exactly as described in Seymor's post. I was actually reading it while waiting my turn in line haha. When I met with the prosecutor prior to the trial he was unwilling offer any resolution other than a reduction of the fine by $20-30 which, all things considered, is quite a negligible amount. I requested to continue to trial and present my case in front of the judge since I had really nothing to lose here. After waiting for about 1.5 hours the prosecutor requested for a recess, which was granted. He talked to the remaining few and I spoke to the officer who handed me my offence. After our conversation, the officer talked to the prosecutor and the officer requested to drop the charge completely. All in all, I am very grateful for what Officer Gibson of the Halton Regional Police did today. So if somehow you come across this on the internet, many thanks to you!

[myflys2k]

I have an even easier solution.

Sorry I couldn't resist.





Glad you got it dropped.

[starchland]

Few things for future, request disclosure - there is a chance it will not arrive and so your first defense is this (request a few times if in fact it doesnt arrive - its probably too late for this but for next time). Court is an expensive proposition, tie up the courts time The presecutor will offer you a plea bargain so that the court can try to guarantee some revenue. Always request a court date pleading innocent its the only way to have the ticket dropped, like others have said, a ticket is a ticket according to insurance, either minor or major.

The charter of rights says no longer than 8 months between offence date and court date...how long has it been?

[husseinj3]

Good for you

I have a question for seymore though.

You sound like you know what you're talking about, appreciate your help.

I go pulled over in September for speeding by the OPP on the 404 and applied for a trial date, and have it on Mach 12th. The thing is, I filed for disclosure twice, and still haven't got a call saying its ready to pick up, and I have proof of filing it twice. If they do give me a new trial date, would that consider enough time to motion an 11B, the right to have a trial in a reasonable amount of time (i think its 8 or 10 months)?

I don't know if theyre gonna drop it because it wasn't something small like a 10 or 20 over lol

[kryptonite]

Seymor Butts, on 22 February 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Soooooooo much mis-information in here its nuts.

First thing's first - cops are not required by any law to attend court. Unless something has changed that I do not know about please show me this law.

Its part of the police services act. The only reason they dont show up sometimes if they are caught up in another activity and couldnt make the time. (Section 42)

[Seymor Butts]

starchland, on 22 February 2012 - 01:03 PM, said:

The charter of rights says no longer than 8 months between offence date and court date...how long has it been?

husseinj3, on 22 February 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Good for you

I have a question for seymore though.

You sound like you know what you're talking about, appreciate your help.

I go pulled over in September for speeding by the OPP on the 404 and applied for a trial date, and have it on Mach 12th. The thing is, I filed for disclosure twice, and still haven't got a call saying its ready to pick up, and I have proof of filing it twice. If they do give me a new trial date, would that consider enough time to motion an 11B, the right to have a trial in a reasonable amount of time (i think its 8 or 10 months)?

I don't know if theyre gonna drop it because it wasn't something small like a 10 or 20 over lol

Section 11(b) of The Charter say "Any person charged with an offence has the right to be tried within a reasonable time;". There is no mention of 8 or 10 months. Reasonable time is pretty open to interpretation. I would say 8 months in most cases is pushing it, 10 is maybe, but for sure 1 year is over the top. But again, its open to interpretation here - there was never a time limit set for this exact reason.

Now if you requested disclosure and there isn't one - they have nothing on you. No disclosure means no evidence. No evidence means no case. Pretty cut and dry here. I'm glad you did this, this may very likely save you out of this ticket.

kryptonite, on 22 February 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

Seymor Butts, on 22 February 2012 - 09:15 AM, said:

Soooooooo much mis-information in here its nuts.

First thing's first - cops are not required by any law to attend court. Unless something has changed that I do not know about please show me this law.

Its part of the police services act. The only reason they dont show up sometimes if they are caught up in another activity and couldnt make the time. (Section 42)

Ok. And who is going to enforce Section 42 of the PSA? I hope I don't have to break this down for you, but no officer is ever going to get charged for not showing up to court for some type of a speeding ticket they wrote 6-12 months ago.

This post has been edited by Seymor Butts: 22 February 2012 - 02:18 PM

[Holeecow]

Very interesting topic!
I have always wanted to know more about this.

[FluKy15]

husseinj3, on 22 February 2012 - 01:06 PM, said:

Good for you

I have a question for seymore though.

You sound like you know what you're talking about, appreciate your help.

I go pulled over in September for speeding by the OPP on the 404 and applied for a trial date, and have it on Mach 12th. The thing is, I filed for disclosure twice, and still haven't got a call saying its ready to pick up, and I have proof of filing it twice. If they do give me a new trial date, would that consider enough time to motion an 11B, the right to have a trial in a reasonable amount of time (i think its 8 or 10 months)?

I don't know if theyre gonna drop it because it wasn't something small like a 10 or 20 over lol

Sounds like a 50 over . Dont worry... Sounds like you have this one!





On another note, lets start a seymour butts legal advice thread

[Stock00S2K]

For the OP, update?

[kryptonite]

[/quote]

Ok. And who is going to enforce Section 42 of the PSA? I hope I don't have to break this down for you, but no officer is ever going to get charged for not showing up to court for some type of a speeding ticket they wrote 6-12 months ago.
[/quote]

Well I would guess it would be more of an internal review thing for them of not fully doing their duty

[Seymor Butts]

kryptonite, on 22 February 2012 - 10:51 PM, said:

Seymor Butts said:

Ok. And who is going to enforce Section 42 of the PSA? I hope I don't have to break this down for you, but no officer is ever going to get charged for not showing up to court for some type of a speeding ticket they wrote 6-12 months ago.

Well I would guess it would be more of an internal review thing for them of not fully doing their duty

Yeah its there in place in case they NEED to use it - but never do. Probably most of the laws out there are there "just in case."

It's also stupid to have that additional law if you ask me - which just proves what I was just saying. Think about it, you're under a court order to show up in court. Doesn't matter if you're a police offer or not, a court order is a court order.

Even then, if you miss your own (traffic) court date, no one is going to come after you and jail you for it.. Unless of course there are other circumstances at play; in which case you have bigger things to worry about than a speeding ticket lol.

[E30 Girl]

I got 10 non moving infractions this year a combonation of no front plate, exhaust tickets and a bunch of other bull shit. Now here is the key and most important thing cause every single one got dropped and none took more then 30sec.

MAKE A DATE WITH A PROSECUTER NOT A COURT DATE!!!!!!!!!

This will happen faster 6-8 weeks not months. Once you have your date you show up and everyone there (usually about 15-20 people) will be called in one at at time. Make sure you bring evidence that you have solved the problem...put the plate on got your sticker whatever. They then tell you all dropped have a niced day and you are done.

I officially don't care about the front plate anymore cause I either get off cause I tell the cop my intention and they don't bother or I know that it will be 100% dropped.

[afzan]

I got a ticket for no front plate in york region - the cop told me I could just put it on the car and go to the court house and talk to the prosecutor so that's what I did (take pics of front+back), no appointment or anything like that required. I just took a number and waited about 30 min to talk to them, showed pics and it was dropped

[Seymor Butts]