Rant about buying experience in Phoenix
06-13-2001, 07:31 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Rant about buying experience in Phoenix
On Mother's Day my very understanding wife and I decided to go take a look at some S2000's. This was before I knew about the S2ki site and I was "just" out looking. We started at Arrowhead Honda, they had one yellow S2000, that had been dinged up while being demo'd, but the car was not at the store available for a test drive. The salesman said it was probably the only one I'd be able to get under list in the Valley, duh. Well deciding I wasn't quite up to yellow and not wanting to start my S2000 experience dinged, we traveled on down to Biddulph, now Earnhardt Honda in Glendale.
Lo and behold they had a silver and red one with <20 miles on the odometer. The salesman (Guy1)indicated that they had just got it and it had only been on one test drive. The car stickered at $32740.00, but had an appearance package addition of $1999.00. No options were listed, but the car had alloy wheels, a wind screen, and a spoiler.
So, I took the car for a test drive, but to do so they needed to run a credit check on me. They said they don't normally do this, but since the S2000 is well, the S2000 their management required the credit check. This wasn't that big a deal to me, so I gave them THE number. Of course the salesman had to back the car out of the drive and off the lot, for insurance purposes, and get this, after stalling the motor a coupla times he realizes, he has to push the shifter down to get the car in reverse. So now we're out of the drive and have traded places and were down to the their little test track, I ask the salesman what should I limit the engine revs to, and he says, "oh, I think with a redline that high you're good to go to 7500, most cars these days, especially Hondas don't really need a break in any more." Well this was my first experience with the S2000 and VTEC, and I notice during the first run that I'm getting a significant kick in the butt when I go much above 6000 rpm. So after one run into VTEC land, I keep my runs down to where I feel I'm not causing to much engine stress (topping out at 5500 rpm or so). I take a coupla corners and I'm feeling, yeah this is the car for me, as I'm sure all of you have after the first drive in our little rods.
Now I'm back to the dealership and since it is Mother's day and the wife is well you know THE wife, I agree to come in the next day to negotiate a deal which includes trading in my 77 Corvette.
So I show up about 5:00 PM on Monday with the Vette, now the Vette is nice but it's no show car. The main thing about the Vette is it had less than 44,000 miles. I paid $7200.00 for it ~3 years ago, but decided I can't live with a car I can't drive in the summer in Phoenix. And while the air conditioning worked, it wasn't really up to an Arizona summer. C3 Vette air conditioning is notorious for being undersized, especially considering the engine heat that invades the passenger space.
So of course Guy1, that I had dealt with the day before isn't there, but his boss (Guy2) whom I'd met the day before is, and we get started on the appraisal for the Vette.
Guy2 whose interrupted several times during the appraisal, then turns me over to another salesman (Guy3) and we wait for Guy2 to complete the appraisal. After about 30 minutes ANOTHER salesman (Guy4) comes over and starts blowing smoke about my Vette and how they've gotta make some phone calls to special Vette people about its value. Meantime they've pulled the Vette around to a place of honor right outside the showroom and several salespeople start eyeballing the car I'm about to trade in. And I'm thinking to myself, boy the Vette sure looks good under those lights, maybe I should reconsider the S2000, but the memory of that test drive brings me back to, I really want 'that' car. Of course this is absolutly the worst way to feel at a dealership. So after another 15 minutes yet another saleman (Guy5)asks me if he could drive the Vette, I said, "yeah sure as long as I go along." We take our little test drive and the Vette just purrs. And the salesman determines that there are no showstoppers with the Vette's performance.
Now one of the more important guys (I think Guy4) pops up with, "oh we did something to the S2000 since you test drove it. Not a bad thing a good thing." We go out to the car which is in the delivery prep area and the Guy4 points out the new chrome wheels. I gotta admit they look nice, but no mention of the price for this is 'option' is made, so I'm assuming (silly me) this is a freebie because they like their S2000 as much as I do and they're not gonna let her go out the door with 'just' the alloy wheels.
So now were finally down to the negotiating. I had figured if they want list plus for their car I wanted list plus for my trade. I'm figuring list plus for the Vette is 8000.00. Well they had figured list plus for their car is MSRP 32740 + Markup 1999 + Chrome Wheels 1495 + Spoiler 700 or almost $37000.00. And this is before tax and license. (Which eventually added another $2774.00.) I don't even think they knew the spoiler was an option until I mentioned it, stupid me. So they offer me 6500 for the Vette I laugh and say we're at least 3000 apart on this deal and start walking out the door, by this time it's almost 8:00 pm and I am ready to go. I get about 3 steps from the goes out, and Guy3 says, "come on give me a chance let me talk to 'Guy4' about this. " Of course I relent and after letting me stew for another 10 minutes or so Guy3 and yet another guy, Guy5 show up. So were 3000 apart Guy5 says, I say, "yeah," and just to show I'm reasonable I say, "at least 1495 of it is in those wheels." I suggest getting back to the alloys and they agree, now were 1500 apart. More & more talking, and not quite so suddenly the Vette is worth 7900 and we've got a deal. But if I want to take the car home, I've got to agree to come back on Tuesday to trade out the wheels. Well of course I want to take the car home. Now I've got a sight draft from my bank, but I've still got to go talk to the finance guy.
So now I'm done with the finance guy (Guy6) I've added the 7 year Honda Care maintenance plan for another 1355.00. Now it's 9:00 or so and they have to get the car final prepped. This takes another 45 minutes or so and by the time I get done going over the Service manual stuff with Guy7 it's past 10:00 pm before I'm on my way home.
Tuesday afternoon I show up to get the wheels traded out. Guy2. and now with Guy1, kinda usher me towards the back of the dealership and says quietly, "Hey we've had kinda of a screwup here, we can't trade the wheels because we sent your wheels off to California to get 'em chromed for the next S2000 we get. But here's what we can do, our cost on those wheels is 895.00, we'll sell them to you for 400.00. Or you can wait 2 weeks for the next S2000 and we'll trade the wheels out then." I had half a mind to wait, but the chrome wheels do really look good against the silver and I'm thinking I don't want to come back here again. So I agree to the extra 400.00, and am out the door.
So now it's a week later and I've got the car broke in and I notice I've got a vibration that feels like a wheel balance problem between 70 and 80 mph. So I set up an appointment with Earnhardt Service. And much to their credit they got me in the afternoon I called. I show up and get the tires balanced, and the service manager assured me, he had his best guy on it and yes the tires were significantly out of balance. Hmm, I wonder to myself does this have anything to do with their rush to get an extra few bucks out of the deal by adding the chrome wheels. But now I've got my tires balanced and I'm temporarily happy.
So now it's more than a week later and eureka I've found the S2000 forum. I take note of the FAQs, in particular the delivery FAQs. I look for spring spacers, I found what I think are spring spacers, I contact Earnhardt, it's Friday just before my first road trip, and they can't tell me exactly what a spring spacer is, and that BOTH of their Honda technicians are unavailable. I contact Arrowhead Honda and they tell me what a spring spacer is. But I'm still not sure that what I have are spring spacers. Arrowhead Honda also tells me that they're booked and can't service my car that afternoon.
I call Bell Honda and the service manager says, "yeah sure bring her in and we'll remove 'em if they're there." An hour later I pull into Bell Honda, the service manager looks at my coils and says "yeah they're still in there." He starts pulling them out right there on the drive. And then gets the car pulled around to the service area to get the rest of the spacers removed. I notice an immediate ride improvement.
That is until I start my first road trip up to Flagstaff and damnit, I've got the same vibration problem I had before. When I return from Flag, I call Bell Honda (I'm now officially done with Earnhardt sales and service, duh) I explain my vibration problem, they said, "yeah bring her on in." They re-balance the tires the same day I called, and told me they were all off by 3/4 oz.
I guess the moral of the story is, read everthing you can about the S2000 on the internet BEFORE you go to a dealer and go to at least 3 dealerships before you buy. In Arizona so far, I recommend ending up at Bell Honda.
I'm sorry this was so long, but I feel better now. Thanks.
c/ya
Mike
2001 S2000 silver w/red AND Chrome Wheels
Lo and behold they had a silver and red one with <20 miles on the odometer. The salesman (Guy1)indicated that they had just got it and it had only been on one test drive. The car stickered at $32740.00, but had an appearance package addition of $1999.00. No options were listed, but the car had alloy wheels, a wind screen, and a spoiler.
So, I took the car for a test drive, but to do so they needed to run a credit check on me. They said they don't normally do this, but since the S2000 is well, the S2000 their management required the credit check. This wasn't that big a deal to me, so I gave them THE number. Of course the salesman had to back the car out of the drive and off the lot, for insurance purposes, and get this, after stalling the motor a coupla times he realizes, he has to push the shifter down to get the car in reverse. So now we're out of the drive and have traded places and were down to the their little test track, I ask the salesman what should I limit the engine revs to, and he says, "oh, I think with a redline that high you're good to go to 7500, most cars these days, especially Hondas don't really need a break in any more." Well this was my first experience with the S2000 and VTEC, and I notice during the first run that I'm getting a significant kick in the butt when I go much above 6000 rpm. So after one run into VTEC land, I keep my runs down to where I feel I'm not causing to much engine stress (topping out at 5500 rpm or so). I take a coupla corners and I'm feeling, yeah this is the car for me, as I'm sure all of you have after the first drive in our little rods.
Now I'm back to the dealership and since it is Mother's day and the wife is well you know THE wife, I agree to come in the next day to negotiate a deal which includes trading in my 77 Corvette.
So I show up about 5:00 PM on Monday with the Vette, now the Vette is nice but it's no show car. The main thing about the Vette is it had less than 44,000 miles. I paid $7200.00 for it ~3 years ago, but decided I can't live with a car I can't drive in the summer in Phoenix. And while the air conditioning worked, it wasn't really up to an Arizona summer. C3 Vette air conditioning is notorious for being undersized, especially considering the engine heat that invades the passenger space.
So of course Guy1, that I had dealt with the day before isn't there, but his boss (Guy2) whom I'd met the day before is, and we get started on the appraisal for the Vette.
Guy2 whose interrupted several times during the appraisal, then turns me over to another salesman (Guy3) and we wait for Guy2 to complete the appraisal. After about 30 minutes ANOTHER salesman (Guy4) comes over and starts blowing smoke about my Vette and how they've gotta make some phone calls to special Vette people about its value. Meantime they've pulled the Vette around to a place of honor right outside the showroom and several salespeople start eyeballing the car I'm about to trade in. And I'm thinking to myself, boy the Vette sure looks good under those lights, maybe I should reconsider the S2000, but the memory of that test drive brings me back to, I really want 'that' car. Of course this is absolutly the worst way to feel at a dealership. So after another 15 minutes yet another saleman (Guy5)asks me if he could drive the Vette, I said, "yeah sure as long as I go along." We take our little test drive and the Vette just purrs. And the salesman determines that there are no showstoppers with the Vette's performance.
Now one of the more important guys (I think Guy4) pops up with, "oh we did something to the S2000 since you test drove it. Not a bad thing a good thing." We go out to the car which is in the delivery prep area and the Guy4 points out the new chrome wheels. I gotta admit they look nice, but no mention of the price for this is 'option' is made, so I'm assuming (silly me) this is a freebie because they like their S2000 as much as I do and they're not gonna let her go out the door with 'just' the alloy wheels.
So now were finally down to the negotiating. I had figured if they want list plus for their car I wanted list plus for my trade. I'm figuring list plus for the Vette is 8000.00. Well they had figured list plus for their car is MSRP 32740 + Markup 1999 + Chrome Wheels 1495 + Spoiler 700 or almost $37000.00. And this is before tax and license. (Which eventually added another $2774.00.) I don't even think they knew the spoiler was an option until I mentioned it, stupid me. So they offer me 6500 for the Vette I laugh and say we're at least 3000 apart on this deal and start walking out the door, by this time it's almost 8:00 pm and I am ready to go. I get about 3 steps from the goes out, and Guy3 says, "come on give me a chance let me talk to 'Guy4' about this. " Of course I relent and after letting me stew for another 10 minutes or so Guy3 and yet another guy, Guy5 show up. So were 3000 apart Guy5 says, I say, "yeah," and just to show I'm reasonable I say, "at least 1495 of it is in those wheels." I suggest getting back to the alloys and they agree, now were 1500 apart. More & more talking, and not quite so suddenly the Vette is worth 7900 and we've got a deal. But if I want to take the car home, I've got to agree to come back on Tuesday to trade out the wheels. Well of course I want to take the car home. Now I've got a sight draft from my bank, but I've still got to go talk to the finance guy.
So now I'm done with the finance guy (Guy6) I've added the 7 year Honda Care maintenance plan for another 1355.00. Now it's 9:00 or so and they have to get the car final prepped. This takes another 45 minutes or so and by the time I get done going over the Service manual stuff with Guy7 it's past 10:00 pm before I'm on my way home.
Tuesday afternoon I show up to get the wheels traded out. Guy2. and now with Guy1, kinda usher me towards the back of the dealership and says quietly, "Hey we've had kinda of a screwup here, we can't trade the wheels because we sent your wheels off to California to get 'em chromed for the next S2000 we get. But here's what we can do, our cost on those wheels is 895.00, we'll sell them to you for 400.00. Or you can wait 2 weeks for the next S2000 and we'll trade the wheels out then." I had half a mind to wait, but the chrome wheels do really look good against the silver and I'm thinking I don't want to come back here again. So I agree to the extra 400.00, and am out the door.
So now it's a week later and I've got the car broke in and I notice I've got a vibration that feels like a wheel balance problem between 70 and 80 mph. So I set up an appointment with Earnhardt Service. And much to their credit they got me in the afternoon I called. I show up and get the tires balanced, and the service manager assured me, he had his best guy on it and yes the tires were significantly out of balance. Hmm, I wonder to myself does this have anything to do with their rush to get an extra few bucks out of the deal by adding the chrome wheels. But now I've got my tires balanced and I'm temporarily happy.
So now it's more than a week later and eureka I've found the S2000 forum. I take note of the FAQs, in particular the delivery FAQs. I look for spring spacers, I found what I think are spring spacers, I contact Earnhardt, it's Friday just before my first road trip, and they can't tell me exactly what a spring spacer is, and that BOTH of their Honda technicians are unavailable. I contact Arrowhead Honda and they tell me what a spring spacer is. But I'm still not sure that what I have are spring spacers. Arrowhead Honda also tells me that they're booked and can't service my car that afternoon.
I call Bell Honda and the service manager says, "yeah sure bring her in and we'll remove 'em if they're there." An hour later I pull into Bell Honda, the service manager looks at my coils and says "yeah they're still in there." He starts pulling them out right there on the drive. And then gets the car pulled around to the service area to get the rest of the spacers removed. I notice an immediate ride improvement.
That is until I start my first road trip up to Flagstaff and damnit, I've got the same vibration problem I had before. When I return from Flag, I call Bell Honda (I'm now officially done with Earnhardt sales and service, duh) I explain my vibration problem, they said, "yeah bring her on in." They re-balance the tires the same day I called, and told me they were all off by 3/4 oz.
I guess the moral of the story is, read everthing you can about the S2000 on the internet BEFORE you go to a dealer and go to at least 3 dealerships before you buy. In Arizona so far, I recommend ending up at Bell Honda.
I'm sorry this was so long, but I feel better now. Thanks.
c/ya
Mike
2001 S2000 silver w/red AND Chrome Wheels
09-05-2001, 01:02 PM
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That was really long but worth it. My mom bought her car at Bell Honda back in 1998 and since then we have only had one problem with them. The intake manifold gasket went bad or something and it took them a week and a half to get a new one. The parts guy never ordered it like the Service guy told him to. Too bad you don't have a name of a sales person there that would hook me up. The person my mom bought her car from left and went to Showcase I think.
I think I will email the internet manager and see if he will sell me the car at MSRP.
I think I will email the internet manager and see if he will sell me the car at MSRP.
09-05-2001, 11:04 PM
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Hmm...sounds like my experience with Showcase Honda (except they didn't agree to my price) - see my previous post. In any case, I've been treated well by Arrowhead Honda but I also dealt immediately with an internet/fleet manager. No slimy salespeople (no offense to any reading this ). I did have a ding on mine when I got it (I noticed it after Iwas ready to drive home) but it is very small, and they're scheduled to fix mine this Friday. Wish me luck because if they can't fix it so that I don't notice it, then I'd better get some $$$$ back!
). I did have a ding on mine when I got it (I noticed it after Iwas ready to drive home) but it is very small, and they're scheduled to fix mine this Friday. Wish me luck because if they can't fix it so that I don't notice it, then I'd better get some $$$$ back!
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