Non-car related question for Aussies and New Zealanders
01-17-2013, 12:57 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Non-car related question for Aussies and New Zealanders
Hi folks, sorry to barge in on your territory but I have a question for you.
I am someone who supports the Sea Shepherd organization with a little money and buying a shirt every now and then. I like what they do and don't think the whales should be made into burgers. I know that the founder, Paul Watson is kind of a PT Barnam style ego-maniac but I support what he is trying to do. I like nature, I scuba, and want to see critters protected from over fishing.
Anywho........The show "Whale Wars" and the Sea Shepherd website seem to show that they have at least some support from the people of your countries and governments, but I think the website and their show probably overstate it a bit. Given that the organization is considered a bit on the extreme side of environmental stuff, what is the feeling of the average person over there? Are they popular with most or just the greenie types and not the righties? (I am a righty for the most part myself) And this Bob Brown guy as well?
I don't mean to interupt you from cars too much, but I was curious. I wore a Sea Sheperd shirt one day skiing in Colorado here in America and I thought most people had no idea who they were, or did not like them, but I was shocked that when I removed my jacket in the chalet literaly dozens of people came up to me to tell me how much they supported them, and lots of people told me they were conservatives and they generally are not considered "eco friendly".
Anyway, just curious. If you don't like them, I won't be offended. They paint a picture of most of Australia at least is behind what they do, but I wondered if that was a true picture.
Thanks
John
I am someone who supports the Sea Shepherd organization with a little money and buying a shirt every now and then. I like what they do and don't think the whales should be made into burgers. I know that the founder, Paul Watson is kind of a PT Barnam style ego-maniac but I support what he is trying to do. I like nature, I scuba, and want to see critters protected from over fishing.
Anywho........The show "Whale Wars" and the Sea Shepherd website seem to show that they have at least some support from the people of your countries and governments, but I think the website and their show probably overstate it a bit. Given that the organization is considered a bit on the extreme side of environmental stuff, what is the feeling of the average person over there? Are they popular with most or just the greenie types and not the righties? (I am a righty for the most part myself) And this Bob Brown guy as well?
I don't mean to interupt you from cars too much, but I was curious. I wore a Sea Sheperd shirt one day skiing in Colorado here in America and I thought most people had no idea who they were, or did not like them, but I was shocked that when I removed my jacket in the chalet literaly dozens of people came up to me to tell me how much they supported them, and lots of people told me they were conservatives and they generally are not considered "eco friendly".
Anyway, just curious. If you don't like them, I won't be offended. They paint a picture of most of Australia at least is behind what they do, but I wondered if that was a true picture.
Thanks
John
01-17-2013, 05:47 PM
#2
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From what I see, in general, the population supports their motives but it's not like we have a movement/swell of support like everyday people are wearing Sea Shepard shirts and rocking bumper stickers everywhere.
We have the general wing of people who are avidly behind them.. but personally I avoid them so I'm not so exposed to that.
On a personal view - yeah sweet. Save some whales and stop other countries fishing illegally in our waters. But their methods I don't agree with - they're illegally boarding boats and potentially risking not only their lives but that of the crew of the other boats as well. Dropping a chain or rope into the path of the whaling boats so that it fouls their props and renders them immovable - I think that's irresponsible and fatally dangerous. Those southern waters are dangerous as it is let alone being a bobbing cork with no thrust to move around should a storm blow through.
Even then... I'm not all that fussed on saving whales. If it's done sustainably then they're not going to go extinct. Maybe just find a more humane way of doing it. I think there are more important things in the world that need more attention and effort than saving whales. The difference between killing a whale for food and killing a tuna for food (apart from the method) is???
Also - they're attached to the hardcore greens and PEW groups. As an avid fisherman -I hate these guys. Basing their claims on nothing but hot air and shoddy research that isn't even completed in AU, they set out to lock out our local fisherman and recreational fisherman from areas on no scientific basis. Obviously this is a selfish view from my perspective, but if they had the right scientific, local evidence that the areas need protection, then I'm all for it. The information they use however is hazy at best and just used as a waving banner to say "look what we've done, we're green and saving the environment". Idiots. Have a look into the Coral Sea area that they locked out recently and logically consider the implications and other options they had, also look at the tactics they used to lock it out.
/rant
We have the general wing of people who are avidly behind them.. but personally I avoid them so I'm not so exposed to that.
On a personal view - yeah sweet. Save some whales and stop other countries fishing illegally in our waters. But their methods I don't agree with - they're illegally boarding boats and potentially risking not only their lives but that of the crew of the other boats as well. Dropping a chain or rope into the path of the whaling boats so that it fouls their props and renders them immovable - I think that's irresponsible and fatally dangerous. Those southern waters are dangerous as it is let alone being a bobbing cork with no thrust to move around should a storm blow through.
Even then... I'm not all that fussed on saving whales. If it's done sustainably then they're not going to go extinct. Maybe just find a more humane way of doing it. I think there are more important things in the world that need more attention and effort than saving whales. The difference between killing a whale for food and killing a tuna for food (apart from the method) is???
Also - they're attached to the hardcore greens and PEW groups. As an avid fisherman -I hate these guys. Basing their claims on nothing but hot air and shoddy research that isn't even completed in AU, they set out to lock out our local fisherman and recreational fisherman from areas on no scientific basis. Obviously this is a selfish view from my perspective, but if they had the right scientific, local evidence that the areas need protection, then I'm all for it. The information they use however is hazy at best and just used as a waving banner to say "look what we've done, we're green and saving the environment". Idiots. Have a look into the Coral Sea area that they locked out recently and logically consider the implications and other options they had, also look at the tactics they used to lock it out.
/rant
01-17-2013, 06:27 PM
#3
On the other hand, I'm definitely no greenie, but I like their methods. Direct action and massive publicity is the way to go. Who can't be horrified at their footage of the Taiji Cove dolphin cull.
But what really makes me a supporter is this:
Two years ago I did a 24 hours karate training marathon. I raised almost a $1000 in sponsorship and donated it to the Red Cross Earthquake appeal (Japan and NZ). The Red Cross gave $60 million to the Japanese government. Shortly after the Japanese government granted $30m to cetacean research (read: thinly veiled whale slaughter).
And I do see a lot of Sea Shepard bumper stickers. Loads of cars sport the crossed trident and crook.
But what really makes me a supporter is this:
Two years ago I did a 24 hours karate training marathon. I raised almost a $1000 in sponsorship and donated it to the Red Cross Earthquake appeal (Japan and NZ). The Red Cross gave $60 million to the Japanese government. Shortly after the Japanese government granted $30m to cetacean research (read: thinly veiled whale slaughter).
And I do see a lot of Sea Shepard bumper stickers. Loads of cars sport the crossed trident and crook.
01-17-2013, 07:19 PM
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at the risk of opening a can of worms ...
Aus - do you oppose the whaling just on principle or based on the fact that they are protected? or on the fact that the methods of capture and kill are quite traumatic?
Aus - do you oppose the whaling just on principle or based on the fact that they are protected? or on the fact that the methods of capture and kill are quite traumatic?
01-17-2013, 07:22 PM
#5
D) All of the above.
My main personal objection is the blatant lie that Japan pushes on us as an excuse for killing whales. Scientific research.
Everyone knows you're supposed to use religion as the excuse for evil acts, not science.
I have no problem with aboriginal (in the general sense) peoples capturing and killing whales for livelihood but not for lies.
My main personal objection is the blatant lie that Japan pushes on us as an excuse for killing whales. Scientific research.
Everyone knows you're supposed to use religion as the excuse for evil acts, not science.
I have no problem with aboriginal (in the general sense) peoples capturing and killing whales for livelihood but not for lies.
01-18-2013, 11:02 AM
#6
Thread Starter
Thanks for the feedback. I like to travel and would like to spend some time in both Australia and New Zealand someday, hopefully for lots of scuba diving and outdoor adventure kind of stuff. I just like to get a sense of hwere the people are in their view of things for whatever reason.
Since this is an issue that seems to come up in your region quite frequently, I was curious. I have no real motive, but since Paul Watson likes to spin things his way, I wondered if people in general were mildly supportive, against them entirely or whatever.
Personally I am against any "fishing" of whales just because I put them on a higher order than say shrimp or flounder, (though I don't want them OVERfished either if they are in jeopardy). I have been close enough to touch humpbacks a couple times and it was one of the neater thigs I have seen in my life. Hate to see someone put a spear in their heads. Just let em swim around and do what they do.
For what it is worth, there is a lot more money to be made by tourist destinations, either rich or poor, in whale watching than is ever made off of using them for food. Many jobs at stake for other nations than just Japan, even though I still want the guys in the whaling fleet to be able to pay their bills and feed their families. I'd just rather they worked doing something else.
But I thought I would pose the question to hear what the locals think because you don't always get an accurate picture from media. I am sure lots of places I could go people might have an opinion on what Americans think on an issue and I would think, "Not really, that is not what the average American thinks at all" if you know what I mean. I find it intersting when I go somewhere else to find the local people feel a certain way about something and you thought it was completely to opposite.
But thanks again for giving the intruder some feedback.
And AusS2000, I just caught your listed interests and it gave me a chuckle.
BTW I donated to Earthquake relief as well and had the same feeling.
do$tyles: I get where you are coming from. I am a protect the environment guy to a point and then the greenies lose me when it gets silly. I fish on occasion, but it not my preferred pass time, just do it for dinner when camping. Not against hunting either if the hunters are responsible people.
Since this is an issue that seems to come up in your region quite frequently, I was curious. I have no real motive, but since Paul Watson likes to spin things his way, I wondered if people in general were mildly supportive, against them entirely or whatever.
Personally I am against any "fishing" of whales just because I put them on a higher order than say shrimp or flounder, (though I don't want them OVERfished either if they are in jeopardy). I have been close enough to touch humpbacks a couple times and it was one of the neater thigs I have seen in my life. Hate to see someone put a spear in their heads. Just let em swim around and do what they do.
For what it is worth, there is a lot more money to be made by tourist destinations, either rich or poor, in whale watching than is ever made off of using them for food. Many jobs at stake for other nations than just Japan, even though I still want the guys in the whaling fleet to be able to pay their bills and feed their families. I'd just rather they worked doing something else.
But I thought I would pose the question to hear what the locals think because you don't always get an accurate picture from media. I am sure lots of places I could go people might have an opinion on what Americans think on an issue and I would think, "Not really, that is not what the average American thinks at all" if you know what I mean. I find it intersting when I go somewhere else to find the local people feel a certain way about something and you thought it was completely to opposite.
But thanks again for giving the intruder some feedback.
And AusS2000, I just caught your listed interests and it gave me a chuckle.
BTW I donated to Earthquake relief as well and had the same feeling.
do$tyles: I get where you are coming from. I am a protect the environment guy to a point and then the greenies lose me when it gets silly. I fish on occasion, but it not my preferred pass time, just do it for dinner when camping. Not against hunting either if the hunters are responsible people.
01-21-2013, 05:54 PM
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D) All of the above.
My main personal objection is the blatant lie that Japan pushes on us as an excuse for killing whales. Scientific research.
Everyone knows you're supposed to use religion as the excuse for evil acts, not science.
I have no problem with aboriginal (in the general sense) peoples capturing and killing whales for livelihood but not for lies.
My main personal objection is the blatant lie that Japan pushes on us as an excuse for killing whales. Scientific research.
Everyone knows you're supposed to use religion as the excuse for evil acts, not science.
I have no problem with aboriginal (in the general sense) peoples capturing and killing whales for livelihood but not for lies.
Good call re religion as the excuse. It seems to be the excuse to be using for a lot of atrocities wherever and whenever
Vader1 - mate make your way over here if you can mate. It's awesome. I've been fishing heaps of times and been in fear of my safety that humpbacks get THAT close to you when fishing. A mate has had his anchor picked up a couple of times by whales swimming under his boat and catching the rope. Our diving off the north coast of QLD is amazing. I've only snorkelled it but I got to go to reefs that the average joe doesn't get to go to so snorkelling was all that was needed.
What do americans think about their current gun laws? (where's the can of worms emoticon?)
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01-21-2013, 05:58 PM
#8
As far as I can tell whale meet is not an intrinsic part of the Japanese diet. More a stubborn left over from the past.
As Paul McDermott is want of singing "Whales are just big juicy cows that swim in the sea".
http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rc...41248874,d.dGY
01-21-2013, 06:25 PM
#9
And as Douglas Adams said,
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”
