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C&D Z06 v Turbo v F430
So this is a mad comparo. I (we) all know the outcome would be:
The Vette ownes the other cars but is not as good in looks/status/interior etc.. 3rd place Z06 2nd place Turbo 1st place F430 click I don't want to copy/paste everything you can click on the link above http://www.lambo-power.com/phpBB2/fi...st-results.jpg Here's the thing, I did not read the article, but I don't know why they didn't instrument test the F430. Also (IMO) the F430 they had results from is not up to what I'd expect (0-150 was 6 sec slower than the Z06). I wonder when GM will put it all together. It's got the go-fast stuff worked out let's get some top class stylests and interior quality guys on the job. Too bad they didn't have the GT3 yet. I read the GT3 is a few seconds quicker around the Nurburing (sp) than the turbo. |
note: the turbo got 10 mpg on the 500 mile C&D test. I'm sure there was a good bit of track work, ~$70 of gas would last you ~200 miles (gulp). Well I'm sure they'd be a fun 200 miles.
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Im sorry but when looking at a car and what it represents it is not about pure performance. Like a letter that was sent to Road And Track Magazine that said that GM won the pedal to the metal contest but they are far from refining it, that was well said. Porsche 911 Turbo is a far superior machine as a whole. Steve C can confirm that. :LOL:
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Originally Posted by rai,Jul 21 2006, 08:57 PM
The Vette ownes the other cars but is not as good in looks/status/interior etc..
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I agree with cdelena. 99% of people would pick the F430 or Porsche Turbo over the Z06 PRICE INDEPENDENT. Even I, one of the biggest GM proponents on the board, would pick the F430 or 997 Turbo over the Z06 if any one of them were offered to me for FREE.
But, in the real world, the Z06 is half price and is as fast/faster, has decent quality, sounds great, and looks downright bada** in black. Also note the Z06 is the quietest inside at 70mph and gets the best mileage. Not bad for a 7.0L V8, huh? :) |
Originally Posted by QUIKAG,Jul 21 2006, 10:11 PM
I agree with cdelena. 99% of people would pick the F430 or Porsche Turbo over the Z06 PRICE INDEPENDENT. Even I, one of the biggest GM proponents on the board, would pick the F430 or 997 Turbo over the Z06 if any one of them were offered to me for FREE.
But, in the real world, the Z06 is half price and is as fast/faster, has decent quality, sounds great, and looks downright bada** in black. Also note the Z06 is the quietest inside at 70mph and gets the best mileage. Not bad for a 7.0L V8, huh? :) |
jesus tap dancing christ, i had no idea that the 911 made so much torque.
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how much mpg does the vette make? it looks so slippery, it probably gets the same mpg as us.
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The test is BS mag racing. If you want to consider other factors, then don't advertise it to be a performance test. This brings back memory of how the C5 Z06 lost to the M3 because the Bimmer had a backseat! :banghead: All this in the context of a "performance" test. :bs:
If any of these 3 cars were offered to me for free, I'd take the F430. I currently have a C6 Z06 and the complaint that it's too common looking doesn't hold water. The Porsche Turbo looks extremely similar to the gazillions of other 911s on the road, so exclusivity does not apply. And it's slower than the Vette. The Ferrari is in a different class altogether. :drool: |
Originally Posted by Justapickup,Jul 22 2006, 07:32 PM
And it's slower than the Vette.
Oh, and as a daily driver, give me the porsche please. Actually I take that back... if money was object, I'd buy a V8 Vantage :thumbup: |
Porsche makes the best car of the three, or at least the most practical.
Chevy makes the best bargain and of course Ferrari makes the one we all lust after. |
I would still take the 911.
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Originally Posted by gomarlins3,Jul 22 2006, 05:55 PM
I would still take the 911.
They say the GT3 will do 0-100 in 8.7 sec which is no slouch. So it costs a bunch of money, but consider vs a Ferrari (CS version) and it's a bargain. The Z06 has a very nice price, the Cayman S sells for similar money. |
At that price, I don't think anyone cares about practicality or performance. How many Z06 owners will actually push the car to its limits like a race car? If I had any of those cars, I'd pamper the crap out of those cars, even though I know they can go a lot harder than I would.
If I had the money, I too, would go for the Ferrari. Why? Because it looks the best, and is made from expensive stuff like carbon fiber and selected leather. The Z06, of course, is the best performer, but the car is made of plastic. It only had one goal and that was performance. The Porsche is nice, but it looks like any other 911 out there and may not stand out. |
Weight must be a SIGNIFICANT issue for the Porsche. 502@1950 ft-lbs with awd = ass whopping unless the car is a tank. Do some weight reductions on that Porsche and it will own all.
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Originally Posted by Lice Locket,Jul 22 2006, 09:07 PM
At that price, I don't think anyone cares about practicality or performance. How many Z06 owners will actually push the car to its limits like a race car? If I had any of those cars, I'd pamper the crap out of those cars, even though I know they can go a lot harder than I would.
If I had the money, I too, would go for the Ferrari. Why? Because it looks the best, and is made from expensive stuff like carbon fiber and selected leather. The Z06, of course, is the best performer, but the car is made of plastic. It only had one goal and that was performance. The Porsche is nice, but it looks like any other 911 out there and may not stand out. |
Originally Posted by candyass,Jul 22 2006, 07:12 PM
Actually I have encountered quite a few experienced guys tracking Z06's lately. The Porsche guys are out there too. It seems like the only guys who don't push the limits are the Ferrari's I've seen. Can't say I blame them considering the cost of entry and ownership of a Ferrari.If I had a Ferrari I would probably baby it too.
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Originally Posted by Lice Locket,Jul 23 2006, 08:40 AM
Were they the new Z06s? The new Z06 is like $60k-70k, which cost a lot more than the previous gen's $40-50k price.
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What's interesting is the new Road & Track has the Ford GT vs. Dodge Viper, vs. Z06 vs. Ferrari F430 vs. Lambo Gallardo vs. 911 Turbo, and the F430 was substantially faster than the Z06 0-60, 1/4 mile & around the track. As a matter of fact out of the american cars they chose the Viper, even though it was slower, they said it handled better, and was much easier to drive than the other 2 amercian cars, and the F430 was the choice among the European cars.
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Originally Posted by 2QYK4U,Jul 23 2006, 03:11 AM
Weight must be a SIGNIFICANT issue for the Porsche. 502@1950 ft-lbs with awd = ass whopping unless the car is a tank. Do some weight reductions on that Porsche and it will own all.
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Originally Posted by Fanman,Jul 23 2006, 07:39 PM
What's interesting is the new Road & Track has the Ford GT vs. Dodge Viper, vs. Z06 vs. Ferrari F430 vs. Lambo Gallardo vs. 911 Turbo, and the F430 was substantially faster than the Z06 0-60, 1/4 mile & around the track. As a matter of fact out of the american cars they chose the Viper, even though it was slower, they said it handled better, and was much easier to drive than the other 2 amercian cars, and the F430 was the choice among the European cars.
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Originally Posted by Fanman,Jul 23 2006, 07:43 PM
FYI, the 502 lb-ft. of tq is for a 10 second "overboost" period when you buy the sports chrono package. Regular figure is 457 lb.-ft.
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Funny, I know the test showed the Vette to be the fastest but I think I would fall into that group that says even the standard C6 is fast enough. Having driven a C5 Z51 I can say I love the car but I would have to go with looks and fun to drive etc. So honestly, I would take a 360 over any of the others if it were free. If I had to pay, C6 Z51 :)
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Originally Posted by Fanman,Jul 23 2006, 10:43 PM
FYI, the 502 lb-ft. of tq is for a 10 second "overboost" period when you buy the sports chrono package. Regular figure is 457 lb.-ft.
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Originally Posted by Diablo99V,Jul 23 2006, 09:31 PM
Bottom line is GM did a great job with the Z06 but overall the Turbo is really the best sports car if you're more concerned about snob appeal than all out performance and if you can afford a car that cost $120,000.
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Originally Posted by 2QYK4U,Jul 24 2006, 02:45 AM
Obviously you are talking about the GT500.
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Originally Posted by Diablo99V,Jul 23 2006, 07:31 PM
but overall the Turbo is really the best sports car.
Also you quote the 1/4 mile time of the turbo to say it's as quick as the Z06 true but you need to say "in a straigt line" while the Z06 eats 2 seconds a lap that's major (IMO). |
Some people are missing another big issue they raised about the Z06 - at the limit performance and driveability. Apparently it was far more difficult to take to the limits (and beyond), which hindered how fun it was to drive.
To me the results were predictable. Nothing is going to overcome a $100K price differential (Z06 vs F430) and nothing is going to overcome singleness of purpose (997 TT with a backseat and lots of weight vs two seater F430). The only common link between these cars is power. Otherwise, the price, layout (2+2 vs 2 seater) and quality are too different to really be comparable. For myself, being the "responsible" guy that I am, I would get the 911 TT. It's super fast, comfortable, reliable, handles well, and allows me to cram my little girl in the back if the need presents itself. An F430 would have to be in addition to a 997 TT. ;) |
I haven't gotten my C&D yet. However, I probably wouldn't take any of the 3. I would take a GT3 instead.
Atleast that's the way I am leaning this week. GT3>Z06. Last week it was the other way around. |
Originally Posted by candyass,Jul 24 2006, 02:01 AM
Yes the Turbo is a better car. If you want to feel like you have a large penis just get a corvette like I did, its better then Enzyte.
Fixed it for you too. ;) Bottom line is more people in the automotive world would take a Turbo hands down regardless of price. If they were by any chance the same price what do you think people would get? That alone gives an excuse for the price, its just better. |
Originally Posted by MDXLuvr,Jul 24 2006, 10:27 AM
I haven't gotten my C&D yet. However, I probably wouldn't take any of the 3. I would take a GT3 instead.
Atleast that's the way I am leaning this week. GT3>Z06. Last week it was the other way around. But again the price difference makes people think, well its a lot more $$$ for the P-car because its a lot better. You get what you pay for. You pay $70,000 for a Z06 but all you got was performance while in the Porsche you get the best of everything. Don't you think? |
Originally Posted by candyass,Jul 24 2006, 01:01 AM
Fixed it for ya
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Originally Posted by Diablo99V,Jul 24 2006, 08:37 AM
:iagree:
Fixed it for you too. ;) Bottom line is more people in the automotive world would take a Turbo hands down regardless of price. If they were by any chance the same price what do you think people would get? That alone gives an excuse for the price, its just better. |
Originally Posted by MDXLuvr,Jul 24 2006, 09:27 AM
I haven't gotten my C&D yet.
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Originally Posted by Fanman,Jul 24 2006, 01:00 AM
No, they got a Ford GT for the test.
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Originally Posted by 2QYK4U,Jul 24 2006, 11:00 AM
A Ford GT is not in the same league as these other cars--the GT500 is. Why would they use a Ford GT?
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Originally Posted by JonBoy,Jul 24 2006, 09:12 AM
I think you're confused. The Ford GT is lighter, makes more power, and costs 3x as much. It's a supercar (or very close to it). The GT500 is an overweight pig with a powerful engine.
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:D
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I don't understand how people can point to a back seat and say, "see, that makes it a better sports car." But then, i don't see how people can point to a leather covered dash and say, "See, that makes it a better sports car," either :/ All the things that people in this thread have claimed made the 911T a "better sports car" have nothing to do with being a "sports car" and everything to do with the price tag.
I can understand people saying they would rather have the Ferrari simply because it is a Ferrari, but I can't understand saying you'd rather have the 911 simply because it has alcantara on the ceiling :confused: Isn't a sports car about speed and handling? So wouldn't the fastest, best-handling sports car be the "best" sports car, regardless of whether it had a high-buck interior decorating option or crank windows and indoor-outdoor carpet? I fail to see how a owning a Z06 is somehow a personal failing :/ I'd be ashamed to admit I wanted a Porsche Turbo simply because it had a "stylish interior." Talk about power with no clue. |
Originally Posted by 2QYK4U,Jul 24 2006, 04:40 PM
I guess I am confused. I was thinking about the Ford MUSTANG GT. :banghead:
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[QUOTE=no_really,Jul 24 2006, 05:08 PM] I don't understand how people can point to a back seat and say, "see, that makes it a better sports car."
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Originally Posted by Fanman,Jul 24 2006, 01:07 PM
People have different definitions of "sports car." For some the realistic definition is a car that they could drive everyday, but still romp on the track. A lot of people will never have 2 or 3 cars at their disposal. A "sports car" is something that is sporty, but can have a nice interior, and is livable on a daily basis. Some people consider the Miata a perfect sports car, some would say it's the Lotus Elise. For me, yes the GT3 would be a better on the track, but a daily driven 'sports" car the turbo would be it. I do need the trunk, the back seats, etc & want the nicer interior, the status, etc (If I am dropping $75K to $125K).
By your definition, the Ferrari would not make sense either, because the sounds, the "ferrari-ness" of it have nothing to do with it being the fastest, best handling car. In the real world people need "best interior" actual power windows, carpeting, etc. There will always be the hardcore people that want the Lotus Elise , but the rest of the 95% of the world have other needs that outweigh the 1% we will be on the track. Just reality of having a soirts car. Like S2000 only appealing to a small segment, even though it might be the lightest, most spartan of the bunch. |
:iagree: but some will still not understand.
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I think everybody understands. It is just that there are not alot of people that can buy a $120,000 car.
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c6z is the choice for me. i'm all for performance per dollar, and in that regard nothing really touches the c6z.
maybe when i'm older my decision now will change toward the 997TT for its refinement.....hmmm |
One thing about the F430 though, is I notice the throttle respone as stated on that graph from rolling starts out accelerates both the Vette and the 911 Turbo on most of the numbers...
I'd go F430 1. 911 Turbo 2. Vette Last...! Saw a lease on the F430 is like 30k down, and 3500.00 a month, not bad if you have reserves and good credit =) |
A graph states throttle response? The order is Z06 = 911 > Ferrari. This is the same order it was with the last gen.
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Originally Posted by nugemark,Jul 24 2006, 09:24 PM
A graph states throttle response? The order is Z06 = 911 > Ferrari. This is the same order it was with the last gen.
Those numbers are a result of the 430 being geared very aggressively for quick burst during those speed ranges (in case someone wants to test the Fcar on the highway). |
[QUOTE=under-rated,Jul 24 2006, 07:41 PM] One thing about the F430 though, is I notice the throttle respone as stated on that graph from rolling starts out accelerates both the Vette and the 911 Turbo on most of the numbers...[QUOTE=under-rated,Jul 24 2006, 07:41 PM]
Look at the numbers again. Rolling start 5-60mph the Z06 beats both by more than 6 tenths of a second. |
i am sorry but i have never been so sold on a car(except the s2k)as i am the Z. i almost like the fact that i would be just about unbeatable by any street car from a stoplight, auto-x, road course in a Z and pay less than half the cost of a name like the f and p cars. they are great cars, but its almost stupid to pass up the Zo6, the best bang for the buck in years.
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Interesting that going by mph/1000rpm, the Vette is geared taller in every gear than the Ferrari is in that gear +1 (ie Z06 1st taller than F430 2nd, etc). In fact 3rd on the Z06 is almost the same as 5th on the F430, while 4th is taller than the F430's 6th! Puttin' that torque to good use for sure, but also explains the huge difference in top gear acceleration tests.
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Originally Posted by lyndon_h,Jul 24 2006, 07:34 PM
I think he is speaking of the 30-50 and 50-70mph acelleration numbers.
Those numbers are a result of the 430 being geared very aggressively for quick burst during those speed ranges (in case someone wants to test the Fcar on the highway). |
Originally Posted by versionJDM,Jul 24 2006, 10:56 PM
i am sorry but i have never been so sold on a car(except the s2k)as i am the Z. i almost like the fact that i would be just about unbeatable by any street car from a stoplight, auto-x, road course in a Z and pay less than half the cost of a name like the f and p cars. they are great cars, but its almost stupid to pass up the Zo6, the best bang for the buck in years.
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Originally Posted by under-rated,Jul 24 2006, 08:41 PM
Saw a lease on the F430 is like 30k down, and 3500.00 a month, not bad if you have reserves and good credit =)
For $3500 a month, you can buy the thing in four years with a $30K down payment. |
Originally Posted by JonBoy,Jul 25 2006, 06:11 AM
Why would ANYONE lease an F430? They don't depreciate these days - you're paying out the nose if you aren't going to buy the thing when your lease is up! You're paying (in 12 months alone) $72K for a car that will probably gain $20K in value, so you're "losing" about $92K in the first twelve months. Doesn't sound like much of a deal to me.
For $3500 a month, you can buy the thing in four years with a $30K down payment. |
Originally Posted by versionJDM,Jul 25 2006, 11:44 AM
or a good sized house!
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Originally Posted by versionJDM,Jul 24 2006, 08:56 PM
i am sorry but i have never been so sold on a car(except the s2k)as i am the Z. i almost like the fact that i would be just about unbeatable by any street car from a stoplight, auto-x, road course in a Z and pay less than half the cost of a name like the f and p cars. they are great cars, but its almost stupid to pass up the Zo6, the best bang for the buck in years.
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http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1453153
Interesting read. Also, picture of a new carvaggio interior....looks nice from what I can see. http://www.corvettekillstories.com/p...k/interior.jpg |
i like the seats... not bad at all. Doesnt seems almost on par with the porsche interior.
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I dunno, I've always been biased away from the Vette (seriously, I have no idea why) but I think that interior looks pretty nice.
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Nicer than the stock interior, but still a bit too sloppy. Leather still too puffy, and cut & stiching is not clean enough.
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I really dont' care how ugly and unsupportive the seats are on the Z. If(when) I buy one the first mod is going to be harness and race seats with 6 point harness. :p
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