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Considering 2000 Lotus Esprit
Hey guys,
I currently drive a 06 Z4M as a weekend car, but I've been getting the car bug lately and am thinking about selling it and replacing it with a 2000 or higher model Esprit Turbo. Do you guys think it's a bad move? I know that the reliability of the earlier 4 cylinder turbos and the 97 model years (the first year of the V8 turbo I believe) wasn't great, which is why I am looking at the later models, hoping by then they've worked out the kinks. Anybody know how reliable the newer Esprits were? I know both the Z4M and Lotus are expensive to maintain. Is the Lotus more expensive? Performance I am assuming will be the same since they have similar HP numbers. Also, I'm not sure if they will hold their value as well as the Bimmers. Any insight will be greatly appreciated. |
They hold their value well and are pretty rare. Parts are expensive and they can be a pain to work on but it's definitely a unique ride. The transmission is the cars weakest link.
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anyoen remember the top gear episode where the boost the hell out of an espirit to reach a top speed or something? it was a few years back
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I believe it was 5th Gear that tried to get a Lotus Esprit to 200mph. As I remember it the car was a complete money pit. Transmission failed right after they bought it and again after they had it fix. Then when trying to boost the HP they just made it extremely unreliable.
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A buddy had one for about 3 years. I don't recall which year it was but it was around a 2000, I think 98 or 99. 6 months after buying it the engine failed (over heated I think, not sure though) and including other maint. the car needed it was ~$20k. I think that included the cost of new turbos as well.
Looks cool, pretty fast, and tons of character. But it will take your wallet out back to the wood shed and absolutely go to town. |
I'd avoid any car that comes with a fire extinguisher as a factory-standard item. ;)
http://www.thelotusforums.com/search...sforums.com%2F |
I never saw the appeal of the Esprit personally. Given the age/super expensive parts/repairs/maintenance that I imagine would come with the Esprit, I would definitely hang on to the Z4M, I love those.
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I just watched the Top Gear James Bond special that was recently. There was a pretty interesting segment on the Esprit. Not much mechanical talk, but very interesting nonetheless. Particularly the story of how Lotus got the attention of the Bond producers.
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My dad was thinking about getting one also. Absolutley stunning looking car (in my opinion, and apparently my dads also) but what scared him away were the maintenance costs and he got a tip from a couple of his car buddies that they really are not very reliable.
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There are a few around with Ford SHO engine swaps that sure look nice. The manifolds are polished! Beautiful car in general. I'd imagine there are many well sorted Espirits on the market. Definetely look nation-wide for one.
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Even from a big time Lotus fan I would pass unless you really like wrenching on your cars more than driving them.
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British cars in general = Poor reliability.
Old British cars in particular = Self abuse. Old British semi-exotics = Just put a gun to your head. It's quicker and less painful. The Esprit is a looker though. Out of curiosity, why not an 05/06 NSX instead? |
This is a car from the era when "LOTUS" stood for Lots Of Trouble, Usually Serious.
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z4m = sex
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Well the overwhelming consensus is that it's not a smart buy. I guess you're right. Plus, as I was browsing the ones for sale, I noticed that all have very few miles on them. I guess that's why they're so affordable for even low mileage ones.
I would love an NSX (I think the Esprit and NSX are a tie when it comes to looks)as well, but the later models with low miles are way out of my price range. I'd like to spend around 40-45k and the ones I'm seeing are 60k and higher. I guess I'll have to resist the bug for now and wait it out until the NSX goes down in price. I'm not knocking the Z4M at all. In fact, coming from an S2000 it brought back lots of the awesome memories I had with it. They are very similar in personality. |
1997-2001 NSX.
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If u have to ask if the lotus is expensive to maintain u need to go to lotustalk.com and start your research.
The esprit is very very unreliable & expensive to fix and repair. I'd rather get an Elise or exige. They are appreciating right now and are chea to maintain. & are decently reliable |
Wow. So many negative comments and not a single one from a person that has actually owned the car in question. Obviously this is the internet :/
BMW's aren't known for the trouble-free ownership experience. I'd put my money on a clean low mileage Lotus before an M BMW. I would agree that a car like the Esprit V8 is not the car for a person looking for a cheap daily. But I would require more than hearsay from a Honda board to make a purchase decision. |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22181012)
Wow. So many negative comments and not a single one from a person that has actually owned the car in question. Obviously this is the internet :/
BMW's aren't known for the trouble-free ownership experience. I'd put my money on a clean low mileage Lotus before an M BMW. I would agree that a car like the Esprit V8 is not the car for a person looking for a cheap daily. But I would require more than hearsay from a Honda board to make a purchase decision. |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22181012)
Wow. So many negative comments and not a single one from a person that has actually owned the car in question. Obviously this is the internet :/
BMW's aren't known for the trouble-free ownership experience. I'd put my money on a clean low mileage Lotus before an M BMW. I would agree that a car like the Esprit V8 is not the car for a person looking for a cheap daily. But I would require more than hearsay from a Honda board to make a purchase decision. |
Originally Posted by MaxGeek
(Post 22181186)
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8' timestamp='1354258987' post='22181012
Wow. So many negative comments and not a single one from a person that has actually owned the car in question. Obviously this is the internet :/
BMW's aren't known for the trouble-free ownership experience. I'd put my money on a clean low mileage Lotus before an M BMW. I would agree that a car like the Esprit V8 is not the car for a person looking for a cheap daily. But I would require more than hearsay from a Honda board to make a purchase decision. How much does an oil change cost for an Esprit V8? How much are factory replacement front rotors, and what are the aftermarket options? It's a rare car in the US so motor replacement in the event of catastrophic failure won't be pocket change, but what is the actual failure rate and how does it compare to the BMW S54 motor, for example? If you cannot answer any of these questions, you have zero knowledge of the costs of owning a Lotus and can only pretend to "know" whether they are expensive to fix and maintain. The Esprit cost ~$90,000 in 2000. Consumables WILL cost more than for a 2012 $30,000 family sedan, and it's a safe bet major repairs will also be more expensive, both because it's rare and because $90,000 cars are usually built from more expensive parts than $30,000 cars. But do you have any first-hand knowledge of the actual running cost of an Esprit? And how it compares to any other low-mileage $90,000 car of similar age? I realize many here do not distinguish between tired cliches and verifiable facts. But yeah, typically first-hand knowledge is required before a person can claim to "know" about a subject. In this thread, only Hasan sugested doing actual research before making a decision. That's just... :shakeshead: |
Ok let's go with first hand experience. My dad had a 95' S4S in the early 2000s that grenaded at 11.5k miles and required $7k in valvetrain work. The car was sold shortly thereafter.
The transmission was sourced through Renault and, in the 4cyl turbo, had to be babied. Interior trim pieces were fragile and the car also had some electrical issues. There is plenty of information available online (and has been for the better part of the decade.) it takes a special (read: loving, patient, and financially comfortable) person to own an Esprit as they are hand built botique cars from a small British manufacturer with parts sourced from various (non performance oriented) manufacturers. Owning an Elise vs an Esprit is like comparing a 5.0 mustang to an RS200 when it comes to sourcing parts and overall reliability. (Simple analogy for Nuncodimwit). So to keep it short and simple ill just go back to my initial post. |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22181261)
Originally Posted by MaxGeek' timestamp='1354273761' post='22181186
[quote name='NuncoStr8' timestamp='1354258987' post='22181012']
Wow. So many negative comments and not a single one from a person that has actually owned the car in question. Obviously this is the internet :/ BMW's aren't known for the trouble-free ownership experience. I'd put my money on a clean low mileage Lotus before an M BMW. I would agree that a car like the Esprit V8 is not the car for a person looking for a cheap daily. But I would require more than hearsay from a Honda board to make a purchase decision. How much does an oil change cost for an Esprit V8? How much are factory replacement front rotors, and what are the aftermarket options? It's a rare car in the US so motor replacement in the event of catastrophic failure won't be pocket change, but what is the actual failure rate and how does it compare to the BMW S54 motor, for example? If you cannot answer any of these questions, you have zero knowledge of the costs of owning a Lotus and can only pretend to "know" whether they are expensive to fix and maintain. The Esprit cost ~$90,000 in 2000. Consumables WILL cost more than for a 2012 $30,000 family sedan, and it's a safe bet major repairs will also be more expensive, both because it's rare and because $90,000 cars are usually built from more expensive parts than $30,000 cars. But do you have any first-hand knowledge of the actual running cost of an Esprit? And how it compares to any other low-mileage $90,000 car of similar age? I realize many here do not distinguish between tired cliches and verifiable facts. But yeah, typically first-hand knowledge is required before a person can claim to "know" about a subject. In this thread, only Hasan sugested doing actual research before making a decision. That's just... :shakeshead: [/quote] Like you said you can research it. You don't have to own one to do so. |
Originally Posted by rnye
(Post 22181301)
Owning an Elise vs an Esprit is like comparing a 5.0 mustang to an RS200 when it comes to sourcing parts and overall reliability. (Simple analogy for Nuncodimwit).
So to keep it short and simple ill just go back to my initial post. |
Originally Posted by Mister2
(Post 22180559)
I'd like to spend around 40-45k and the ones I'm seeing are 60k and higher.
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Originally Posted by CosmosMpower
(Post 22181420)
Originally Posted by rnye' timestamp='1354282748' post='22181301
Owning an Elise vs an Esprit is like comparing a 5.0 mustang to an RS200 when it comes to sourcing parts and overall reliability. (Simple analogy for Nuncodimwit).
So to keep it short and simple ill just go back to my initial post. However, I don't think people understand how rare the Esprit is (or just how difficult parts can be). Less than 800 Esprit V8s were brought into the US from 1997-2004. Even over the course of its 27 year run less than 11,000 were built, and production rarely broke 500 cars a year. |
Originally Posted by rnye
(Post 22181301)
Ok let's go with first hand experience. My dad had a 95' S4S in the early 2000s that grenaded at 11.5k miles and required $7k in valvetrain work. The car was sold shortly thereafter.
The transmission was sourced through Renault and, in the 4cyl turbo, had to be babied. Interior trim pieces were fragile and the car also had some electrical issues. There is plenty of information available online (and has been for the better part of the decade.) it takes a special (read: loving, patient, and financially comfortable) person to own an Esprit as they are hand built botique cars from a small British manufacturer with parts sourced from various (non performance oriented) manufacturers. Owning an Elise vs an Esprit is like comparing a 5.0 mustang to an RS200 when it comes to sourcing parts and overall reliability. (Simple analogy for Nuncodimwit). So to keep it short and simple ill just go back to my initial post. Cool story, bra! Just for the record, "firsthand" means it happened to you, not someone else. What you just related is secondhand. Kind of thought that'd be covered in elementary school, but whatever. I'm stupid because of the car I drive, apparently. What's your excuse? :cool: |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22181012)
Wow. So many negative comments and not a single one from a person that has actually owned the car in question. Obviously this is the internet :/
BMW's aren't known for the trouble-free ownership experience. I'd put my money on a clean low mileage Lotus before an M BMW. I would agree that a car like the Esprit V8 is not the car for a person looking for a cheap daily. But I would require more than hearsay from a Honda board to make a purchase decision. |
Originally Posted by JonBoy
(Post 22182336)
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8' timestamp='1354258987' post='22181012
Wow. So many negative comments and not a single one from a person that has actually owned the car in question. Obviously this is the internet :/
BMW's aren't known for the trouble-free ownership experience. I'd put my money on a clean low mileage Lotus before an M BMW. I would agree that a car like the Esprit V8 is not the car for a person looking for a cheap daily. But I would require more than hearsay from a Honda board to make a purchase decision. |
You're putting out a judgement without personal experience - even to say you'd trust a Lotus of an M BMW is an expression of an opinion without personal experience to back it up. You have nothing to offer this thread, so why be here at all? Everything you have is, at best, anecdotal as well.
For all the grief you're giving people for not having firsthand knowledge of the vehicle in question, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to type anything in this thread. Heck, why are you on the board? You don't even have an S2000 and never have. |
Nunco is here as troll bait. He types and posts to feed his huge narcissistic ego because he can't get enough attention from people in real life. Any attention, whether good or bad is desirable.
Along the lines of this thread, Nunco would probably say that you can't make opinions on maintaining a Ford Model-T or a DMC Delorean since you've never owned one. It doesn't matter that parts are impossible to find, everything from that point is hearsay. Btw, when you go to school and read books to learn, it's garbage too since it's just second or third hand hearsay experience of other people telling you stuff and you've never done it first hand. Good luck getting a job trying to acquire first-hand experience first... |
:rofl: :thumbup:
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Originally Posted by JonBoy
(Post 22182490)
You're putting out a judgement without personal experience - even to say you'd trust a Lotus of an M BMW is an expression of an opinion without personal experience to back it up. You have nothing to offer this thread, so why be here at all? Everything you have is, at best, anecdotal as well.
For all the grief you're giving people for not having firsthand knowledge of the vehicle in question, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to type anything in this thread. Heck, why are you on the board? You don't even have an S2000 and never have. Yeah, that's rational :/ I understand your difficulty grasping why I might post here when I don't worship Honda like you. You reject any concept that might conflict with any opinion you hold. See, I don't surround myself with people who agree with me all the time. I find that boring and pointless. Why have a dialog if you cannot learn anything? How can you learn anything if you don't expose yourself to new ideas and opinions? Crazy talk, I know :tipwink:/> And, I'm bored. :argue:/> :write:/> :drive:/> Ultimately we all probably have more we agree on than not. When people post invective when they disagree and nothing when they agree, invective is the dialog. I don't post "Yeah, +1" very often. Unless it's an actual poll, such minimal input on a forum is often rightfully seen as post-whoring. So we are left with rabid extremism vs. a simple comment. It's not healthy to think of a forum that way, and it's a distortion of what really takes place. And I do my best not to contribute inflammatory statements. I posted in this thread because there were only two or three posts that didn't regurgitate the same cliches I've been hearing for decades. Only one suggested doing some research at a site that might be more appropriate to the question. I was kind of surprised. At this point I am not surprised that rnye cannot post without insulting me even though I think we probably agree far more often than not. You cannot post without going out of your way to disagree with me, typically of the form "You are wrong because Mustang." Bullwings paints me as his personal negative-man to the extreme - what I actually write is immaterial for his/her purposes. It's like all of you are so threatened by a voice that doesn't simply regurgitate the groupthink you can't even evaluate the written word without a logical short-circuit. So why should I leave? I try not to insult people simply for disagreeing. I don't discount points of view simply because the poster drives Car X. I don't take other people's opinions to the irrational extreme as a counter-argument or put words in their mouth. Yet I'm the troll? :ponder:/> |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22182801)
Originally Posted by JonBoy' timestamp='1354311835' post='22182490
You're putting out a judgement without personal experience - even to say you'd trust a Lotus of an M BMW is an expression of an opinion without personal experience to back it up. You have nothing to offer this thread, so why be here at all? Everything you have is, at best, anecdotal as well.
For all the grief you're giving people for not having firsthand knowledge of the vehicle in question, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to type anything in this thread. Heck, why are you on the board? You don't even have an S2000 and never have. Yeah, that's rational :/ I understand your difficulty grasping why I might post here when I don't worship Honda like you. You reject any concept that might conflict with any opinion you hold. See, I don't surround myself with people who agree with me all the time. I find that boring and pointless. Why have a dialog if you cannot learn anything? How can you learn anything if you don't expose yourself to new ideas and opinions? Crazy talk, I know :tipwink:/>/> And, I'm bored. :argue:/>/> :write:/>/> :drive:/>/> Ultimately we all probably have more we agree on than not. When people post invective when they disagree and nothing when they agree, invective is the dialog. I don't post "Yeah, +1" very often. Unless it's an actual poll, such minimal input on a forum is often rightfully seen as post-whoring. So we are left with rabid extremism vs. a simple comment. It's not healthy to think of a forum that way, and it's a distortion of what really takes place. And I do my best not to contribute inflammatory statements. I posted in this thread because there were only two or three posts that didn't regurgitate the same cliches I've been hearing for decades. Only one suggested doing some research at a site that might be more appropriate to the question. I was kind of surprised. At this point I am not surprised that rnye cannot post without insulting me even though I think we probably agree far more often than not. You cannot post without going out of your way to disagree with me, typically of the form "You are wrong because Mustang." Bullwings paints me as his personal negative-man to the extreme - what I actually write is immaterial for his/her purposes. It's like all of you are so threatened by a voice that doesn't simply regurgitate the groupthink you can't even evaluate the written word without a logical short-circuit. So why should I leave? I try not to insult people simply for disagreeing. I don't discount points of view simply because the poster drives Car X. I don't take other people's opinions to the irrational extreme as a counter-argument or put words in their mouth. Yet I'm the troll? :ponder:/>/> |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22182801)
Originally Posted by JonBoy' timestamp='1354311835' post='22182490
You're putting out a judgement without personal experience - even to say you'd trust a Lotus of an M BMW is an expression of an opinion without personal experience to back it up. You have nothing to offer this thread, so why be here at all? Everything you have is, at best, anecdotal as well.
For all the grief you're giving people for not having firsthand knowledge of the vehicle in question, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to type anything in this thread. Heck, why are you on the board? You don't even have an S2000 and never have. Yeah, that's rational :/ I understand your difficulty grasping why I might post here when I don't worship Honda like you. You reject any concept that might conflict with any opinion you hold. See, I don't surround myself with people who agree with me all the time. I find that boring and pointless. Why have a dialog if you cannot learn anything? How can you learn anything if you don't expose yourself to new ideas and opinions? Crazy talk, I know :tipwink:/>/>/> And, I'm bored. :argue:/>/>/> :write:/>/>/> :drive:/>/>/> Ultimately we all probably have more we agree on than not. When people post invective when they disagree and nothing when they agree, invective is the dialog. I don't post "Yeah, +1" very often. Unless it's an actual poll, such minimal input on a forum is often rightfully seen as post-whoring. So we are left with rabid extremism vs. a simple comment. It's not healthy to think of a forum that way, and it's a distortion of what really takes place. And I do my best not to contribute inflammatory statements. I posted in this thread because there were only two or three posts that didn't regurgitate the same cliches I've been hearing for decades. Only one suggested doing some research at a site that might be more appropriate to the question. I was kind of surprised. At this point I am not surprised that rnye cannot post without insulting me even though I think we probably agree far more often than not. You cannot post without going out of your way to disagree with me, typically of the form "You are wrong because Mustang." Bullwings paints me as his personal negative-man to the extreme - what I actually write is immaterial for his/her purposes. It's like all of you are so threatened by a voice that doesn't simply regurgitate the groupthink you can't even evaluate the written word without a logical short-circuit. So why should I leave? I try not to insult people simply for disagreeing. I don't discount points of view simply because the poster drives Car X. I don't take other people's opinions to the irrational extreme as a counter-argument or put words in their mouth. Yet I'm the troll? :ponder:/>/>/> That's a really, really stupid thing to believe (it practically precludes learning from other people's experiences or mistakes) but that's a conversation for another thread. Your point of view is based on the idea that people that said "Do(n't) do it" are completely ignorant of the facts. It denies the idea that perhaps they have had similar ideas in the past and have already done the research and are saving the OP some time and effort by steering him based on that information. Seriously, just when I think you've hit the intelligence valley, you somehow drill a hole in the trough and take a thread to new depths of stupidity. |
Originally Posted by JonBoy
(Post 22183608)
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8' timestamp='1354323824' post='22182801
[quote name='JonBoy' timestamp='1354311835' post='22182490']
You're putting out a judgement without personal experience - even to say you'd trust a Lotus of an M BMW is an expression of an opinion without personal experience to back it up. You have nothing to offer this thread, so why be here at all? Everything you have is, at best, anecdotal as well. For all the grief you're giving people for not having firsthand knowledge of the vehicle in question, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to type anything in this thread. Heck, why are you on the board? You don't even have an S2000 and never have. Yeah, that's rational :/ I understand your difficulty grasping why I might post here when I don't worship Honda like you. You reject any concept that might conflict with any opinion you hold. See, I don't surround myself with people who agree with me all the time. I find that boring and pointless. Why have a dialog if you cannot learn anything? How can you learn anything if you don't expose yourself to new ideas and opinions? Crazy talk, I know :tipwink:/>/>/>/> And, I'm bored. :argue:/>/>/>/> :write:/>/>/>/> :drive:/>/>/>/> Ultimately we all probably have more we agree on than not. When people post invective when they disagree and nothing when they agree, invective is the dialog. I don't post "Yeah, +1" very often. Unless it's an actual poll, such minimal input on a forum is often rightfully seen as post-whoring. So we are left with rabid extremism vs. a simple comment. It's not healthy to think of a forum that way, and it's a distortion of what really takes place. And I do my best not to contribute inflammatory statements. I posted in this thread because there were only two or three posts that didn't regurgitate the same cliches I've been hearing for decades. Only one suggested doing some research at a site that might be more appropriate to the question. I was kind of surprised. At this point I am not surprised that rnye cannot post without insulting me even though I think we probably agree far more often than not. You cannot post without going out of your way to disagree with me, typically of the form "You are wrong because Mustang." Bullwings paints me as his personal negative-man to the extreme - what I actually write is immaterial for his/her purposes. It's like all of you are so threatened by a voice that doesn't simply regurgitate the groupthink you can't even evaluate the written word without a logical short-circuit. So why should I leave? I try not to insult people simply for disagreeing. I don't discount points of view simply because the poster drives Car X. I don't take other people's opinions to the irrational extreme as a counter-argument or put words in their mouth. Yet I'm the troll? :ponder:/>/>/>/> Seriously, just when I think you've hit the intelligence valley, you somehow drill a hole in the trough and take a thread to new depths of stupidity. [/quote] Funniest thing I've read in days. :) |
:thumbup: :D
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Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22182801)
blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
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There's a guy on a Maserati forum I am on who owns an Espirit. I don't think his is too bad to own. I bet if it is a regular driver, it won't be as bad as some of the garage queens. My hunch is that some get relegated to garage queen as it is not an easy car to get in and out of and some owners, that becomes a bigger hassle over time.
If the Espirit is a car that gets your senses going, buy it! There are enough out there to secure one from an owner who really maintained it. Do you have a place that knows how to fix them near by you? |
I spoke to a 4-cylinder turbo owner who was tracking at Thunderhill a few years back. He told me the V8's increased power came at the expense of extra weight that ruins the balance of the car. Just wanted to share a comment of a non-V8 owner.
Personally I think it looks dated and would prefer an Exige over it. There are quite a few Esprits running around where I live and none of them seem that impressive to me. |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22182801)
Originally Posted by JonBoy' timestamp='1354311835' post='22182490
You're putting out a judgement without personal experience - even to say you'd trust a Lotus of an M BMW is an expression of an opinion without personal experience to back it up. You have nothing to offer this thread, so why be here at all? Everything you have is, at best, anecdotal as well.
For all the grief you're giving people for not having firsthand knowledge of the vehicle in question, I'm not sure why you're even bothering to type anything in this thread. Heck, why are you on the board? You don't even have an S2000 and never have. Yeah, that's rational :/ I understand your difficulty grasping why I might post here when I don't worship Honda like you. You reject any concept that might conflict with any opinion you hold. See, I don't surround myself with people who agree with me all the time. I find that boring and pointless. Why have a dialog if you cannot learn anything? How can you learn anything if you don't expose yourself to new ideas and opinions? Crazy talk, I know :tipwink:/>/> And, I'm bored. :argue:/>/> :write:/>/> :drive:/>/> Ultimately we all probably have more we agree on than not. When people post invective when they disagree and nothing when they agree, invective is the dialog. I don't post "Yeah, +1" very often. Unless it's an actual poll, such minimal input on a forum is often rightfully seen as post-whoring. So we are left with rabid extremism vs. a simple comment. It's not healthy to think of a forum that way, and it's a distortion of what really takes place. And I do my best not to contribute inflammatory statements. I posted in this thread because there were only two or three posts that didn't regurgitate the same cliches I've been hearing for decades. Only one suggested doing some research at a site that might be more appropriate to the question. I was kind of surprised. At this point I am not surprised that rnye cannot post without insulting me even though I think we probably agree far more often than not. You cannot post without going out of your way to disagree with me, typically of the form "You are wrong because Mustang." Bullwings paints me as his personal negative-man to the extreme - what I actually write is immaterial for his/her purposes. It's like all of you are so threatened by a voice that doesn't simply regurgitate the groupthink you can't even evaluate the written word without a logical short-circuit. So why should I leave? I try not to insult people simply for disagreeing. I don't discount points of view simply because the poster drives Car X. I don't take other people's opinions to the irrational extreme as a counter-argument or put words in their mouth. Yet I'm the troll? :ponder:/>/> |
Originally Posted by JonBoy
(Post 22183608)
...
Seriously, just when I think you've hit the intelligence valley, you somehow drill a hole in the trough and take a thread to new depths of stupidity. I'm thoroughly amused by the responses to my post. If I can speak figuratively, it's like a crew of memes wearing helmets because they fall down alot and have already had too many concussions. At least they are welcome on a Honda forum. That's something. |
Originally Posted by NuncoStr8
(Post 22190312)
Originally Posted by JonBoy' timestamp='1354377275' post='22183608
...
Seriously, just when I think you've hit the intelligence valley, you somehow drill a hole in the trough and take a thread to new depths of stupidity. I'm thoroughly amused by the responses to my post. If I can speak figuratively, it's like a crew of memes wearing helmets because they fall down alot and have already had too many concussions. At least they are welcome on a Honda forum. That's something. You're obviously a troll and I can't wait for the ban hammer to fall. |
3 years of stupidity and going strong.
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