Electric brakes?
 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/br...e-a-thing-soon

Interesting and relevant quote from the article:

Can you imagine being able to adjust a brake pedal to your own liking? That'd be awesome to transition from street driving to performance/track driving.

As with all remote/electrical systems, the trick will be to give feedback like a mechanical system. I have heard that the new NSX has an amazing "brake by wire" system that give excellent feedback so it's definitely doable (they discuss this as well). The only question is, at what cost?

The more things change, the more I want an old Miata.

I strongly dislike the electronic parking brake on my GT4...

I like the electronic ebrakes on the cars I have had them on. Never had one on a manual though. GT4 has the hill assist, right?

A lot of the Subaru folks disable the electronic hill assist.

It doesn't bother me much either way.

IMO, brake feel should just be good all the time, regardless or street or track use.

Yes. It has hill assist.

I'm with you, 100%. I want a pedal where stopping power is proportion to pedal force, and linear with pedal travel. I can't imagine why anyone would want to adjust away from this ideal.

I had the misfortune of driving a friend's ~10 yr old Camry recently. I don't know how Toyota managed to engineer such an awful feeling brake system on that car. Probably the same guys that developed the power steering in that car...

I am skeptical as hell about it. Manufacturers wish to go this way because once the initial technology is in place and it becomes universal it will be at a cost reduction to older systems, but more expensive to repair. It definitely helped with fuel economy in terms of replacing power steering.

Going from my Mazdaspeed 3 to the Golf R with electric steering the change is not 100% welcome. The benefit is that you can tune it, 3 different settings for firmness, so the issue is not the weight of the steering. Weight and feedback are two different things that people often conflate with one another. At 9/10ths or more the electric steering is just downright vague and disappointing. I am not wholly against these new technologies, just playing devils advocate that there is of course a negative trade off.

You can tune brake bias in hydraulic systems with $70 proportioning valves too, but the idea of OEM clean electronic line locks and perhaps individual driver tuned bias is pretty awesome.

Our cars also have electric power steering; you can't try one variation of it and decide it is all terrible. There are cars that are completely separated, but most EPS cars (including the GTI) still have a steering shaft connected to the rack, they've just decided to no longer pump fluid.
Additionally, steering feedback will vary based on suspension geometry, type (double wishbone, mcpherson) of suspension linkage, tires, etc.

I am 100% positive that electronically controlled braking with reduce accidents and decrease emergency stopping distances for the average driver.
For enthusiasts it will allow us to emulate different pad compounds, in a way. All of us have different preferences in brake pad initial bite, an ideal pedal pressure-to-friction ratio and curve, and front-rear preference bias -- this will allow some level of control over that via electronics, and allow on the fly adjustment.

I am an analog car person, but time marches on and the sky is not falling.
​​​​​​Brakes are already not 100% linear or proportional as the friction level changes with the temperature of the pads and vary based on pad compound. Some pads have high initial bite, some low, some feel like a block of wood when you get into them, some feel soft.
As far as the Camry, it is an econobox and likely neglected in terms of maintenance.

apparently the new Alfa Stelvio has electric brakes. Road and Track said they were "maddeningly inconsistent- The technology still feels foreign to anyone accustomed to conventional, hydraulic brakes. Right now, that's nearly everybody."

based on that review, not ready for prime time.

darcy

Ok, sure if you want to get a technical with pad selection and temperatures. For for typical street pads at normal operating ranges, friction is pretty consistent. With a properly setup hydraulic brake system, stopping power corresponds to pedal force. Hop in either of my Porsches and go for a drive. There is no dead travel in the pedal. Pedal force builds as the pads clamp the rotor. Press harder and you feel a corresponding change in the rate of deceleration. It is intuitive, and confidence inspiring. There is no question in your mind, you simply *know* that the pedal is connected to the brakes. That's how it should be.

Not just to pick on my friend's Camry, I've driven cheap rental cars that were similarly horrible. An inch or more of pedal travel before the brakes start to engage. Or pedal force builds unnecessarily before the brakes start to engage. Or an overly boosted setup where braking force suddenly and dramatically increases with no additional increase in pedal force (this is what I consider non-linear braking performance). None of these are confidence inspiring characteristics.

The argument on reliability is always "F1 one has used it for years!" or "planes do almost everything by wire anymore!!"

When people are required by law (and this is enforced to the T) to maintain their cars like an F1 team or an airline, then I will be ok with it. Otherwise I think it is a poor idea personally. It is hard enough to get the average Joe to replace tires when they are bald in the winter, let alone keep their car maintenance up to airline or professional race team standards. I still think there should be a mechanical brake system with some sort of electronic assist maybe, but not a full BBW on personal vehicles (Big Beautiful Women are fine in personal vehicles ... just not Brake By Wire .... ) . And I am a tech geek that has worked designing cool gadgets for years ... I am not even one of those old skeptical codgers .... yet :)

While our cars do have electric power steering ASSIST, they still have mechanical steering that works should that system fail . I know plenty of folks who have had DBW systems totally fail on them leaving their car to do nothing but idle. That would have been slightly worse had it been the brake system.

And wise ....... ;) I am feeling the same to be honest. I do not see myself buying many more new cars personally. I am tired enough of the nannies trying to drive for me, I certainly do not need my ECU deciding how hard to push the brake pedal. I also have never taken a car to a shop for anything but alignments and tire work and try to keep up enough to do 100% of my work. And I have zero motivation to learn how to repair some of this stuff.

There are no cars that are fully steer by wire with no mechanical linkage.
Porsche is very good at getting the brake feel right for people that are drivers. Go drive a VW and you will find feelings similar to what you're describing in the second paragraph (very grabby). Each brand has its own feel.

ummm ok ... where did I say otherwise ? We are talking brake by wire. I referenced electric steering because someone else mentioned it and used it as an example. And while I said DBW, in automotive terms that means THROTTLE by wire, which many, if not the majority, of new cars have. No one ever said anything about cars having steer by wire.

I brought up that our cars have EPS since someone said that they did not like cars with electronic power steering; your post clarified that there is a mechanical linkage in our cars, implying that it might somehow be different than the EPS cars. I was making sure that everyone was on the same page as far as there not being a true decouped steer by wire in cars. Make sense?

I was just using the EPS systems vs DBW or BBW systems as a comparison, not arguing with what you said. I think that is the part that caused the misunderstanding. Point being, that having an electric assist to a mechanical system is not a bad idea and provides more tunability, vs putting your safety at mercy of a poorly maintained electric only system.

100% agreed

I've heard the same. I think it will come down to how it's implemented. In my personal experience, Honda and BMW do DBW throttle very well, Porsche initially did it poorly but now does it well, and Toyota currently does it poorly. I have nothing intrinsically for or against DBW throttle or braking.

This is not entirely true. The 2015 Infiniti Q50 had SBW. The 2016 model went back to hydraulic steering due to complaints.

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/infini...steer-by-wire/

It still has a mechanical linkage, look at a diagram of the setup. It absolutely has a backup mechanical linkage, in comparison to a DBW throttle that lacks a mechanical wire to the throttle plate.

I have hill assist on my car, friggin love it, makes driving around San francisco tolerable.

FTFY