https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...celica-brazil/

Probably gonna be my next car. A pair of GR’s with AWD, turbos, and 6MT sounds outstanding. The Toyota dev guys have been chattering with journalists and 400 HP has been bantered. I just hope this thing isn’t too heavy. My friend who is a JDM freak of nature is telling me mid engine. I find that hard to believe. Looks like we will know something more later in the year. This is like when I saw the GRY in testing and had to wait years. They string this shit out forever!

 

I'm concerned it will be too heavy and too expensive. Celicas aren't supposed to be upmarket vehicles.

 

My suspicion is that it's going to be the next gen 86 but with a Toyota power plant. The chatter for some time has been Toyota wants to continue with the 86 platform and Subaru wants out, Toyota rediscovering that their value in doing things in house, and that they want to have the "three sisters" concept.

So my hypothesis is that it'll be based on the 86 platform and use one of the turbo engines they got, frankly I'd be happy with any of them. With the increased power they'll likely have to add more crap, which ultimately means it'll probably swim up market. How much up market? Well I don't think they're too concerned about cannibalizing sales with the GRC, I think they finally realized what everyone else realized that if you offer two different products at the same price, while yes people will cross shop them, there is no cannibalization of sales, it's actually a sales capture, I mean would you rather people cross shop your product against a competitor, or just cross shop within your portfolio? It's why I think the Celica will be positioned to be somewhat more of a sexier option since the Corolla is to do it all weekend warrior car, the Celica could be the more impractical treat yourself sort of car. But people will know what the bones are and Toyota has been really good with not over reaching with their pricing, so my theory is that they're going to shoot for the 45k market, cheaper than the Supra, but more than the 86, and at this price level they won't have to rely on volume to make it worthwhile, they can throttle production and rely on a better margin.

I then think the MR2 will be the halo Toyota which will probably swim farther upmarket which makes sense since it will be mid engine and such.

The chatter that I'm blatantly ignoring though is that the Celica may be hybrid, because there was a lot of talk about Toyota applying their hybrid tech to their sportier cars. A few years ago I'd say this is the most likely outcome, but I think Toyoda-san found his groove and understands that for these types of cars that can't be the case. With every step with their GR cars they're learning what really actually sells. I think the market is primed for a solid $40k offering, consider that there is no STI, no more Supra, Z has been polarizing to say the least, Vette is waaaay up market, no more V8s pony cars start at 45k and there's only one option left, no Porsche or BMW M car anywhere near spitting distance of this price category, I think a RWD Toyota turbocharged lightweight coupe with some premiumness baked into will be perfect. The platform was already developed, drivetrain will more or less be off the shelf, they can make the car less compromising to appease all the barstool racers, and they could justify a higher profit margin. Just imagine what a 300hp RWD, 2800-3100lb 86 with 245 (255, 265?!?!) summer tires can do, and how much would you be willing to pay for it?

 

If they do bring it back I hope they don't make it look anything like the last generation of the Celica. That front in was ugly as can be. That's just me I'm sure, but man I can't stand the looks of that thing.

 

Am I missing something? Or is this fake?

 

Fake as a three dollar bill man. AI bullshit.

 

I don't know about weight, but if the rumors of this sharing an engine with the MR2, and the MR2's rumored price to be in the $70k neighborhood, I don't know how this would be much below the Supra.

 

This. It should compete on price with a Civic Type R.

 

$70k is insane in my opinion. I love the idea of a new MR2 but not at that price. Not even close.

 

There's alot of rumors about the MR2, namely that it's going to be hybrid as well. So if we consider it's going to be on a one off platform, mid engine (ICE), and hybrid, yeah these days that'll definitely push you way up market.

I can see from a pricing strategy standpoint that having the MR2 in the Porsche Boxster/BMW M/Corvette realm, and then already having the GR Corolla at the hot hatch pricing realm, the Celica could then be positioned in the 50-60kish realm, but imo I think that'll be a misstep. I don't know what drivetrain they can offer that will have the firepower to go against the V8s, err, V8... I believe the Mustang stands alone now, and anything that may even entertain that notion will no doubt increase alot of the weight and such.

The conventional pricing strategy would indicate if you already got the GR Corolla occupying the 40k range, and the MR2 in the Corvette/Boxster price range, then there is a need for something in the 50-60k range. I believe that's trash. Offer the right product for the right price. Yes, people will cross shop as they always do, but I'd rather them cross shop my products than the competition. What you don't want is true redudancy. A 5 door hatchback with AWD is different from a lightweight RWD coupe on summer tires except to clout chasers.

They got the platform, they got options for the drivetrain, they've already recouped their developmental costs of both, and there's a demand for an entry level sportscar with legit performance/potential. Consider that the ecoboost mustang starts at 31k, there's no reason a turbo 86 aka Celica should cost more than 40, heck it should be in the mid to maybe high 30s.

The move is to stay true to the original ethos of not getting into bench racing, if the CTR is faster who cares, most people in this realm will either want an attractive fun car, or a car they know has a ton of accessible potential. Just style it right, put the right motor in it, don't over think it, make it good enough so that reviewers can't complain about it, and price it right.

And then, in a couple years, come out with a GRMN/Morizo edition where you go ham on it, strip it down, change the body some if you like, and go bench racing, and then charge whatever the heck you want. The fanbois (myself included probably) would absolutely salivate for a factory special version, with say aero components, 400hp, etc etc, essentially a GT3 version, even if it's priced at 60k. Because what can you buy with 400hp that weighs around 3000lbs, full interior, RWD, and Toyota quality? How many track folks really need more than that? Heck, give it all the stupidly unnecessary stuff like CF body panels, center lock rims, carbon brakes, etc, and the fanbois will take a second mortgage out to get it. Remember, we live in a world where Ford offeres a 300k+ Mustang that sold out immediately. But Ford is brilliant in that they still offer the Mustang GT. Keep the enthusiasts happy and they'll let you get away with the occasional money grab here and there. I mean, the GT350 for as cool as it is... isn't really any faster than the Coyote powered cars, especially the later ones. But people paid damn near twice for that car. I mean look at the Charger and Challenger, lol, there are six figure versions of them.