You're exactly right in that the 86 is that marginal amount more fun in certain aspects but the GRC makes up for it with more power and utility which usually means alot more cost or weight but in this case not so much.

I'm a manual guy through and through, but once you get past beyond C8 LT1 levels (and even at those levels), at my low skill level a car like a Z06 or ZR1 on a track has plenty to keep my attention that I can't handle the added complication of a manual transmission. Everything is happening so fast that at that power level paddle shifters become a welcomed change. But those same performance levels on the street is totally pointless since you'll be risking lives and criminal charges at that point, and those high performance cars at lower speeds are just bored.

Modern GT/sports sedans have gotten far too bloated, and the OEMs have lost site a long time ago with what made those cars popular. Well maybe not, because those cars tend to rely more on the name than anything else, and to maintain their status they need to have the speed data to keep them relevant. But man have they lost their way, the new M5 is a straight joke. You mentioned the M2 and even that is now 3800lbs, it's straight ridiculous. The I6s doesn't sound bad, but for me it's not a selling point, and I suppose some noise is better than no noise, but frankly with all the baggage that comes with a BMW it's easy for me overlook the silence of an EV. There is nothing that BMW offers now that I wouldn't seriously cross shop a Tesla. Wasn't that long ago that the M2C was on the top of my radar, and the Supra is still on my list of some day cars.

I was thinking about the Miata today and thought the NC could've been the last generation. It was sorta becoming irrelevant despite hitting all the focus group demands, namely making it bigger. And then sales and interest slowed and Mazda could've used that and justified axing it. Instead, they bucked trends and came out with the ND which I still find sexy, they didn't care that it got smaller, less livable, etc, and here we are almost 10 years later and it's still going. Had Mazda stuck with the trend and listened to the general public, I'm sure the Miata would be dead by now stating that no one wants a Miata anymore.

Which brings to GM, I respect the C8, alot, but I don't like it. It's not for me. GM lost their way with the C8, they forgot what brought them to do the dance. The Corvette was the plucky underdog that was relatable that could poke its finger at the glass ceiling and shatter it. Now it's Rocky 3, all dressed up. GM completely missed the point why younger folks don't buy their cars, old folks buy Porsches and yet the young people want Porsches. GM always engineered great cars but always seems to screw up the emotional aspect. The Gen 6 Camaro is better than the S550 Mustang in pretty much every objective way, which is double true against the Challenger, yet Chevy hard a harder time selling the Camaro. If GM couldn't get younger folks to buy the superior Camaro while those folks are flocking to the Mustang and Mopars, why do they think that going MR will accomplish this? GM thinks that just because they can beat so and so people will buy their cars. The problem with always comparing yourself is what is your worth outside of beating a Ferrari, because the moment you don't care about that everything else comes into view. I mean cmon, do people really buy Ferraris because they're the fastest thing they can buy? Or even Porsches for that matter.

GM should've done what Mazda did and make a car for themselves, take advantage of what they do well. What I would've love is GM studying successful FR designs like the E Type, F Type, Astons, and then revisit the C1-C3 designs and figure out a design that doesn't feel like flavor of the month. They could literally drop that on top of an unchanged C7, keep the price where it is, and I'd have a deposit on one.

 

Reading through this and glad the GRC feels like a “new old car”. I felt absolutely the same way about my old BRZ and the Miata. They’re such a joy. Some Porsches feel like that too but totally different price bracket. The Golf R does carry some of those vibes - to some extent - as well.

BTW is that Redwood?

 

Nice setup, and mechanical system, I'm not crazy about the exterior styling but I don't own it and I can never argue with aesthetics when others are paying the bill. I don't like that middle exhaust pipe though, it would have to go if I owned one, a different exhaust or tailpipe possible ? Just a simple pipe would do me fine. Small problems if that is all I could complain about I guess.

 

Precisely, the immediate impression I got with this car was that it feels familiar. Don't get me wrong, it's nothing like sitting in an EG, crash regs forces beltlines of cars to be much higher than the old days hence window openings are darn near neck level now, but there's a smallness to this car that you just don't see anymore, and I had the same impression with the BRZ and the ND. The Cayman does a great job at this as well as it's largely unchanged from a dimensional standpoint which is a stark contrast to modern BMWs. Agreed with the Golf R as well, and this is not a criticism per se, but the Golf/GTI always had an interior that punched above its weight class and the general cabin experience felt more premium, which is great, but also disconnects you from the road, but it makes up for it with straight up performance.

And it sure is! I didn't know they reopened it, I was super late to the party, so glad it's open again.

Personally, I'm not wild about the aesthetics either, I know this will put me into the super minority but I almost prefer my VB styling to the GRC. But, it easily grew on me, reminds me of all the old Group B rally cars alike the Renaults and Peugots so I've come to really like it, the flares in person are really pronounced and actually looks pretty athletic in person. I didn't like the three exhausts either, but since I went with the sleeper spec I've actually have grown to like it now because it gives it some character/personality without going over the top with it like an IS-F or something. Lots of cars nowadays come with dual exhausts so I can appreciate that Toyota didn't want this car to look generic or just riced up since it is based on a Zipcar. That said, if I had my way I'd take the Integra Type S setup. The aftermarket does have options now, some are just single center exhausts and I believe there are block out plates to cover up the side cutouts, the more popular setups just have 4 pipes (twin center, two sides), but I've grown to like the stock setup and I'm not sure adding pipes makes it look better. I'm not sure how I would've done it better, but I do know I like this better than the FK8 CTR setup though.

 

I meant to reply back to this thread when you responded to me.
Thank you for the thorough response. I've been thinking about letting go of a couple of my vehicles and replacing them with a fun DD. I was looking at the Golf R and ITS. I wouldn't have never thought about the GRC but sounds like I might have to.

 

Golf R was my second choice and you wouldn't be making a mistake if you went this route, although I think now they no longer offer a manual... in any rate I could totally see me owning one of those.

 

Been to the track at all? I remember reading early reports where people complained it would switch to FWD after several laps. Unsure how overblown that was or if they fixed the issue, but am curious. I love everything about this car aside from the heinous rear end!

 

Glad to see you're still loving your GRC Don! I am in that boat as well. Took delivery of my Circuit in July 2023 and the love affair is still going strong. I bought this car with premeditated motives in mind. When I put down a deposit (April 1st 2022) I was already making plans to move from North Carolina to Montana. And I thought that a GRC would be a joy to drive year round - important somewhere that has 5-6 months of winter weather.

And I couldn't have been more correct. Moved here August of last year and the GRC was an absolute ball to drive on snow covered roads (wheels shod with Blizzaks). Rally slides galore but grip for days if you want to keep things (looking) respectable. My only complaint about having fun with it here, and it's an unfair complaint, is the suspension is too stiff. On hard packed snow covered roads, or the many dirt trails out here, the ride is absolutely punishing. But that's 100% a me problem and I may look into a set of 17 inch wheels to help with that (and possibly a slight lift kit).

@rwheelz I tracked mine for a day at VIR (using the "free" track day Toyota includes with purchase). Got in 70 laps around VIR Full Course. And I did run into the AWD overheat issue in my 3rd dry tracking session (all sessions after were in the rain). Happened on the 7th lap (roughly 23 miles into the session). A shame but is what it is - I didn't buy this car for track use.

Car is sitting at 22,000 miles now and I can't wait to add thousands more this summer driving around MT, WY, ID & UT exploring the area I now call home. I had planned to drive it cross country for a month long east coast visit, but i severely injured my knee in a ski accident at the end of March. So that was out. But I did drive it cross country when I moved out here and it did pretty well. Though I would disagree with Don's opinion about road noise. IMO it's SUPER loud. Probably the loudest car I've owned since the S2000 (for interior noise). Is what it is, not upset about it - I knew what I was buying!

 

Both can be solved.

The suspension is also a problem for me. My twisties, the pavement isn’t ideal. Pavement or really asphalt irregularity. The rebound is pogo like, and the compression is not enough. Ohlins RT’s have been released and are in my future. So many turns, I’m at the limit, and due to the pavement I’m bouncing my head off the headliner. It gets old. Ohlins will soak up the road irregularities, and solve your same issue with compression and rebound.

Track work, 555 cooler and the Syvecs AWD controller, and that issue is gone. Another thing that I will do. I also need the drivers seat lowering kit because I have tried, but cannot fit in the car with my helmet on unless I want a gangster lean driving position which I refuse to do. But like you I didn’t buy the car for a track warrior. I bought it for a rural twisty road b road machine and 2 years away from living in my mountain range where I have land. I’ve already taken it through there and got damn. It could literally keep up with anything made in my mountains. That will be the main driving for the car in dry, rain, and snow.

 

I don't believe there's a seat lowering kit. I too hate the high driving position (about 1.5 inches higher than a CTR) but the floorplan is RIGHT up against the bottom of the seat. Another seat, or removing padding from OEM seat, seem like only options and I wouldn't attempt either.