Z06 vs Elise (on the track)
 

I'm not a racer, but I was just wondering how these 2 cars will get around a track. What I mean is (I guess) the Elise will be able to brake later into a corner, so does this mean "fast in"? But the Z06 will be faster out.

For the sake of argument, will the Elise have a faster time in a typical corner. I guess if a Z06 is faster around a track, it will be because of the straights. So is it possible to say with a superior driver the Elise could pass the vette in a corner by braking later and the Z06 will generally pass the Elise in the straights.

Thanks.

I'm just curious, are there examples of cars in the same SCCA class that have largely different power and weights.

My guess (having never seen an Elise on the track) is that it will be able to carry a bit more speed coming out of the turn because it corner speed could be faster. This is at least the impression I get looking at other Loti on the track - you seem to be able to carry a bit more speed through the turn so you have faster initial exit speed. I am not sure this is related to braking point - but more to the issue of how much you need to brake in order to make the turn. Also - remember that braking points are also determined by the speed you carry into the corner - and this can be very different at the end of a long straight - if the Z06 carries a lot more speed at the end of the straight than the Elise - it would have to brake earlier even if they can carry the same speed around the corner (unlikely given that weight advantage of the Lotus).

I am sure that some of the more accomplished racers / technical people would jump to point my errors and give better explanation :)

Ron.

the c6 vette video showed that it beat the exige...but that doesn't have the 190hp motor. on a big track the z06 will win, the exige will shine when it gets tight. but overall the z06 can't be beat.

There was a video out there of an Elise chasing a C5 (Z06?? - I can't remember) around the Nordschleife. Now there's no accounting for driver skill, though I suppose you could study the video carefully for lines and transitions etc, but basically, the Vette would just roar away on the longer streches ...places like Fox Tunnel and Dottenger height (sp?), but in the twisty bits, the elise would run him down - and even threaten to pass (Adenau Forest for example). It was pretty interesting to watch - I mean the vette would flat leave the elise, and to see it run up on it in a twisty bit was awesome.

I'm no authority, but I suspect what the Elise can do is go way deeper into a braking zone, and then carry more speed through most turns, but on exit, especially tighter ones, it's all Vette. Also if I'm not mistaken, the Elise has issues as it approaches top speed - the vette is very aero I think.

The Elise may keep it's tires and brakes under it longer. There's smothing to be said for light wieght (not that the Vette is heavy in this era of 3400lb M3's and 3600 lb S4's - these are 'sports' cars?).

I've seen a Mk2 Golf with a VR6 swap take a Z06 on the track. My money would go on the Elise regardless of the size of the track.


-Matt

I'm as big an Elise supporter as you'll find, but you are an idiot.

I've also passed 360 Modena's, Porsche Turbos, and Porsche GT3's on track, so I guess my C5 Coupe is faster.

Seriously, I think it would be interesting to watch, The Elise with some race rubber should do good work in corners, but I think it's at too much of a power deficit to take a Z06 WITH EQUAL DRIVERS on a track with any sort of straightaways. A Z06 traps 116mph and a Elise traps around 102-104mph. That's a pretty big difference.

actually i think road and track (i know...amazing isn't it) had an interesting comparision showing the elise vs the Z06 (there were other cars too). It showed the elise pulled the highest in corner speeds of any of the cars (it was a 360, 911 turbo, etc besides the elise and Z06). But, it can handled easily once the track got straight at all. The elise is tiny so it can use a lot more of the track then the Z06. Plus, being so light gives it an advantage is the sections that make quick transitions and weight over the tires, but you can only do so much with that.

I was just thinking about this, if the Elise and the Z06 had the same stopping distances and the same lateral acceleration, maybe they could go thru a corner at the same speed.

I see the point about a faster car having to brake sooner, and maybe it's brakes will not be as strong (thru the turn) as a slower lighter car that can brake later in a turn.

I'm no expert, just another curious amateur. So take the following with the requisite NaCl...

R&T's June '02 addressed essentially this in their "Great Grip" feature where they drove 8 sports cars around Buttonwillow. The Elise (122hp) did indeed have the highest apex speeds on both segments. It had the fastest total segment time on one, 5th on the other (Z06 was 2nd/4th). BTW, the Elise had a phenomenal slalom performance that was 3 mph faster than #2 and 6 mph up on the Vette.

However, in the June '04 Automobile track test, the US Spec Elise was 4.1 sec slower than a 360 Challenge, 2.8 sec behind a GT3, 1.6 sec behind a Viper. Alas, the Z06 was not included but I'd bet it would be near the Viper. The graph of the Elise vs three others around the track indicates it had similar corner speeds to the Ferrari, but got blown away on the exits.

So, there is some evidence to perhaps support your hypothesis of faster corner, slower exit. And that matches conventional wisdom. But who knows, it may be the tires, it may be the mid-engine. The Elise also benefits by being small and narrow, which allows it a bigger radius on a given turn. I'm sure this partly explains its phenomenal slalom.

I guess I like to question conventional wisdom. While the Elise scored the best R&T braking distances of road cars, it is only 1-2 ft better than a Z06. My understanding of braking physics says it comes down to tire performance. I'd expect they can both haul down in a corner and show the same corner speed. But I would expect the heavier car's brakes to fade quicker. And the aforementioned radius advantage to the narrow car. So after many laps, yes I'd say advantage: Elise.

But not enough to make up for the hp/weight deficit. So I'd venture that on most any normal track, the Z06 would eat it up (with equal excellent drivers). Auto-X would be another story. The narrowness of those tracks would strongly favor the Elise. I'm betting the Elise handily bests the Z06 there.