1997 Integra Type-R Barrett Jackson today!
09-28-2018, 12:47 PM
#11
It will bring a lot, but I have mixed feelings about it bringing figures that high.
The only thing special about a type r is the performance bits. Otherwise it was a decent economy car (the non R models). So, the only reason it was so appealing was its performance. People paying this much money for it are going to preserve it in a garage, so the performance means nothing. They will never drive it since they are spending a fortune just because of the low mileage. So, in my opinion, this makes it worthless to me.
I do get the collectible part of it all and that is what those folks are into. But to me it is an otherwise fun car relegated to sitting in a bubble never being used again :P Kinda sad in a way
The only thing special about a type r is the performance bits. Otherwise it was a decent economy car (the non R models). So, the only reason it was so appealing was its performance. People paying this much money for it are going to preserve it in a garage, so the performance means nothing. They will never drive it since they are spending a fortune just because of the low mileage. So, in my opinion, this makes it worthless to me.
I do get the collectible part of it all and that is what those folks are into. But to me it is an otherwise fun car relegated to sitting in a bubble never being used again :P Kinda sad in a way
09-28-2018, 02:39 PM
#12
Yeah, any car that had fanatic appeal and are relatively rare will eventually be worth some money. The 90s could be defined by the japanese import scene, and the ITR was a poster child for that trend. Everyone who had a fwd sport compact wanted a Type R, even though no one actually bought them. I said this several times on these boards, but I remember ITRs sitting at dealers. Anyway, alot of folks who grew up lusting for one of these cars as they drove their EGs with their Apexi N1 blaring out the back on their way to school and now find themselves working more hours than they want to afford a lifestyle they don't care about wanting to get back some of the joy of their youth will "overpay" to get examples like these. Initially, I see everything wrong with this purchase but then when you really take a step back, for some, what other car can you buy for that price that will give you the same kind of joy? When you're not driving a performance car fast, as is the case 90% of the time, you're mostly talking about it, looking at it, etc. And cars like this will tend to stay happily in your garage for a longer time than the latest and greatest motor trend car of the year, so why not.
The DC2 crowd is a fanatic one, and I envy their love for the model. I wish I could love a car that much, would save me a ton of money by now constantly switching cars.
The DC2 crowd is a fanatic one, and I envy their love for the model. I wish I could love a car that much, would save me a ton of money by now constantly switching cars.
09-28-2018, 06:36 PM
#13
I love it...all those domestic iron fans just shat themselves! you wanna know where the hobby is at? look to the east! as always, low mileage and originality rules the day- supras, Toyota 2000gt, typeR's, civic Si's, civic typeR's, nsx's, s2000's etc. etc. are the new collectables.
Here is how it goes- in high school you lusted after a car you couldn't afford. you're making some bank after working for a few years and now, you can buy your dream car- except they stopped making it years ago- it happened to our now retired parents back in the 60's lusting after the muscle cars that are bringing down serious money...but for how much longer?
darcy
Here is how it goes- in high school you lusted after a car you couldn't afford. you're making some bank after working for a few years and now, you can buy your dream car- except they stopped making it years ago- it happened to our now retired parents back in the 60's lusting after the muscle cars that are bringing down serious money...but for how much longer?
darcy
09-28-2018, 07:22 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah, but sometimes that is the "greater fool theory". Just find someone who is a bigger fool than you who is willing to pay more for it. E30 M3's are overrated. I can see the 911 values a little bit. But classic cars have had their ups and downs. You can pay $60k for an Integra and then have the bottom fall out of the market. Besides, I don't have the kind of cash to buy cars and sit on them without enjoying them. When you enjoy them, you drive the value right out of them. If somebody wants an old E30 with 97,000 miles, good for them. But any low miler, top value car needs to be stashed away if you want it as an investment, and when you look at how much they return, (unless we are talking Ferrari's here) you are better off in the stock market.
Let's say you buy the Integra for $60k and ten years from now you get $90k for it and during that time you have some costs as well. Storage, insurance, registration, and you put another 1000 miles on it. Or instead you put the money in stocks and instead of $90k you have $120k over the same ten years. You may be able to avoid capital gains with the car but you are still behind the stock market. They both have risk . Making the person out to be a genius who tied up their money in a car to make less than the market is not really being Warren Buffet. Unless you can get the appreciation AND still drive the car and put on miles, it is pointless to me. It takes up cash and garage space that could be used for me to put something I can enjoy everyday.
But yes, I know, some people like to have something rare, and this would be it. If you are that guy and have the money, go for it. But this car as an investment? There are far better investments. Nearly every car is a bad investment. I prefer the niche enthusiast vehicle that will hold value but still allow me to drive it. I bought an MR2 turbo for $10k sold it a decade later for $7k. I bought an S2000 for $21k sold it a dozen years later for $17.5k. I plan to have a similar experience with the Cayman. And I drive them all without worry and enjoy them greatly.
But I am sure there is someone in Silicone Valley that was a riceboy as a teen and the Integra Type R was their number one dream car and he is now making a half mill per. He can ring the register and finally get the car he always wanted.
Let's say you buy the Integra for $60k and ten years from now you get $90k for it and during that time you have some costs as well. Storage, insurance, registration, and you put another 1000 miles on it. Or instead you put the money in stocks and instead of $90k you have $120k over the same ten years. You may be able to avoid capital gains with the car but you are still behind the stock market. They both have risk . Making the person out to be a genius who tied up their money in a car to make less than the market is not really being Warren Buffet. Unless you can get the appreciation AND still drive the car and put on miles, it is pointless to me. It takes up cash and garage space that could be used for me to put something I can enjoy everyday.
But yes, I know, some people like to have something rare, and this would be it. If you are that guy and have the money, go for it. But this car as an investment? There are far better investments. Nearly every car is a bad investment. I prefer the niche enthusiast vehicle that will hold value but still allow me to drive it. I bought an MR2 turbo for $10k sold it a decade later for $7k. I bought an S2000 for $21k sold it a dozen years later for $17.5k. I plan to have a similar experience with the Cayman. And I drive them all without worry and enjoy them greatly.
But I am sure there is someone in Silicone Valley that was a riceboy as a teen and the Integra Type R was their number one dream car and he is now making a half mill per. He can ring the register and finally get the car he always wanted.
The car is worth $63,800 because so many people felt it was worth the price its demanding.
09-29-2018, 01:13 PM
#17
Moderator
The people buying these cars are doing so mostly on speculation that the value of them will rise as a return on investment. They largely have no interest in really driving them, which is sad.
09-29-2018, 03:47 PM
#18
Having recently searched for an ITR I gave up and picked up a 2000 GS-R. I didn't realize how rare ITR's have become, particularly in Canada. During my search there was only one ITR for sale in Canada and it was 3000 miles away, and it was being sold for a suspiciously low price. It is probably the most rare Honda from that era, much harder to find than an s2000 or NSX. I think a large portion of them were stolen, and a fair number crashed, which doesn't leave many remaining on such a low volume model. Once I get away from the nostalgia factor, I'd say that I have 95 percent of what I wanted in an ITR at perhaps 10 percent of the cost in my GS-R.. The handling levels of the ITR have been easy to reach with a few simple mods. The GS-R motor is about 25 hp less than the ITR but I quite like the GS-R motor just the way it is. 8k vs 8400 rpms isn't that much difference, but I certainly appreciate the effort Honda went to with the internal ITR motor parts to achieve that extra 400 rpms.. There will always be a segment of the market that lusts for that raw race inspired design of the ITR, and demand far outstrips supply. The market will dictate and support higher values on the ITR far into the future.
I often come across ITR reviews that talk about the seam welded body of the ITR, which amps up the attractiveness factor on the internet. I have never really seen any evidence but my guess is that the ITR was not seam welded. It has some extra welds and extra strong metal added to key areas, along with reinforcement bars. It really wasn't that great of a performer IMO, just a really cool car in the way it was developed. Once you steer clear of the hype and appreciate it for what it really is the car would be a great piece to own.
The handling characteristics of the ITR are easy to replicate I'd still love to have one though.
I often come across ITR reviews that talk about the seam welded body of the ITR, which amps up the attractiveness factor on the internet. I have never really seen any evidence but my guess is that the ITR was not seam welded. It has some extra welds and extra strong metal added to key areas, along with reinforcement bars. It really wasn't that great of a performer IMO, just a really cool car in the way it was developed. Once you steer clear of the hype and appreciate it for what it really is the car would be a great piece to own.
The handling characteristics of the ITR are easy to replicate I'd still love to have one though.
Last edited by zeroptzero; 09-29-2018 at 05:00 PM.
09-30-2018, 10:15 AM
#19
I feel like every car company should come to an agreement that they'll save 1-2 examples of whatever car they come out with that they think is cool and notable, and put them on public display at their museum. Then the rest of us can stop worshipping low-mile, showroom-condition cars that will never be driven, nor even seen beyond its owner and his/her buddies when they come over. Deal?
09-30-2018, 06:42 PM
#20
I often come across ITR reviews that talk about the seam welded body of the ITR, which amps up the attractiveness factor on the internet. I have never really seen any evidence but my guess is that the ITR was not seam welded. It has some extra welds and extra strong metal added to key areas, along with reinforcement bars. It really wasn't that great of a performer IMO, just a really cool car in the way it was developed. Once you steer clear of the hype and appreciate it for what it really is the car would be a great piece to own.
The handling characteristics of the ITR are easy to replicate I'd still love to have one though.
The handling characteristics of the ITR are easy to replicate I'd still love to have one though.
I haven't been around an ITR but I do believe they were seam welded. I also know they had a stronger rear subframe and I believe the body panels were of a thicker gauge metal than the non-R cars. For their time, I think they were great performers. They were coveted as the best handling front wheel drive car and still fall into that debate. They were also successful in racing in the world challenge series with RealTime racing against the 3 series of that era. I still think that the quickest track car for the price is the EG/DC platform with a K-Swap. Look at what the K-Tuned ITR is doing in Global Time Attack. That car often takes the outright best time in a field of higher powered, RWD and AWD cars. If lap times and budget were all I cared about, a K-swap would have to be in my considerations.
Overall, I'd never go near an ITR at these kind of prices. I just don't think it's fair to say they weren't that great of a performer, subjectively and for their time. I'm also not sure that you can really question the fact that it was a seam welded chassis, whatever that really adds to the equation. Back in the day, the ITR premium was probably worth it to the right buyer. I think today, the prices are nuts for anyone who actually wants to drive the car. I also agree with the sentiment that it's value is derived from driving, not collecting. That's just my opinion though. Currently the value obtained by driving relative to cost is probably not efficient in any way.
