2017 FK8 Honda Civic Type R - 7:43.80 at the Nurburgring - reclaims fastest FWD title
04-26-2017, 12:46 PM
#51
A Mustang GT costs about the same as a CTR so that's a valid thought. Camaro Z28? Nope, not even close. Camaro SS? Sure. Even a Camaro SS 1LE might be doable at $37K (that's what one guy got his for, a few months ago). Which would I take? Without having driven the CTR, I'd have to lean towards the Camaro because of its RWD, more power, new chassis, and great engine sound. I'm not a fan of boost so a big, normally aspirated engine is my preference. However, I can definitely see the CTR's appeal in that it's quite light, quite focused, will probably hold its value a lot better, is less common and is "the best of its breed" (FWD production cars).
We'll see how the CTR does against those guys, when it comes to lap times (specifically, the Mustang GT or Camaro SS). Better base tires, way less weight and a newer chassis mean that it'll have a fighting chance on a smaller, tighter course (for sure) but will still struggle, in all probability, on the longer tracks.
I remember reading a comparo of an Integra Type R vs a Mustang GT, back in the day. The Type R won the comparo, despite being slower in a straight line, and I believe it was actually faster around the track (don't hold me to that - it's obviously been a long time!).
I think it's great that you've already declared the CTR inferior without having driven it AND in the face of it being a mere 13s slower than the hardcore Z/28 on a nearly 8 minute track. On a 2 minute track, you're down to a 3s difference between a CTR that costs $35K and has 300 hp and a Z/28 that costs $76K and has 505hp, ceramic brakes,spool-valve dampers, fairly aggressive aero and massive, nearly slick tires. Ford doesn't even run the Mustang at the Nurburgring... OBJECTIVELY, the CTR appears to be much quicker than the sum of its parts, given that it's putting a beatdown on cars from Porsche that have way more power, RWD (or AWD), factory hotshoe at the wheel, etc. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
We'll see how the CTR does against those guys, when it comes to lap times (specifically, the Mustang GT or Camaro SS). Better base tires, way less weight and a newer chassis mean that it'll have a fighting chance on a smaller, tighter course (for sure) but will still struggle, in all probability, on the longer tracks.
I remember reading a comparo of an Integra Type R vs a Mustang GT, back in the day. The Type R won the comparo, despite being slower in a straight line, and I believe it was actually faster around the track (don't hold me to that - it's obviously been a long time!).
I think it's great that you've already declared the CTR inferior without having driven it AND in the face of it being a mere 13s slower than the hardcore Z/28 on a nearly 8 minute track. On a 2 minute track, you're down to a 3s difference between a CTR that costs $35K and has 300 hp and a Z/28 that costs $76K and has 505hp, ceramic brakes,spool-valve dampers, fairly aggressive aero and massive, nearly slick tires. Ford doesn't even run the Mustang at the Nurburgring... OBJECTIVELY, the CTR appears to be much quicker than the sum of its parts, given that it's putting a beatdown on cars from Porsche that have way more power, RWD (or AWD), factory hotshoe at the wheel, etc. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it.
As to smaller tracks. the Z/28 can lap VIR's Grand West Course in 2:50.9 and the SS 1LE in 2:54.8. The Focus RS does the deed in 3:03.9. If the CTR is within 10 seconds of the Z/28 I'll be very impressed. Floored, even. But that ain't gonna happen.
(also reference: Camaro V6 1LE's time is 3:04.00)
Lightning Lap 2016: Results, Historical Lap Times, and More – Feature – Car and Driver
Oh and that comparison you were talking about between a Mustang GT and Integra Type R was in Sport Compact Car magazine. (though I suppose someone else may have compared the two as well!). Oh hey, I found the article I was thinking of too!
Integra Type R #1920 Project blog: (Sport Compact Car, November 2000) Acura Integra Type R vs. Ford Mustang GT
04-26-2017, 01:15 PM
#52
That's the article.Thanks for the clarification. We'll see about actual lap times when the car is released.
04-27-2017, 01:29 PM
#53
the dealers will try to do that for the first month. then lower to MSRP when failed to sell in adequate numbers. Then they will deal.
the new NSX is the same way. I have seen ads in the local paper offering MSRP.
Don't recall Ferrari or lambo ever doing that. Even years into model cycle. They have waiting list for cars they discontinued.
the new NSX is the same way. I have seen ads in the local paper offering MSRP.
Don't recall Ferrari or lambo ever doing that. Even years into model cycle. They have waiting list for cars they discontinued.
04-27-2017, 03:14 PM
#54
C'mon, man - Ferrari and Lambo vs Honda? That's not even reasonable. Way higher price points, for starters, plus a whole other level of cachet.
The NSX is still selling at roughly the same rate as the Audi R8. Problem with dealer cars is they're not necessarily optioned the way the customer wants them so they're skipping the dealer cars and ordering their exact features that they want. Why wouldn't you order a bespoke car if it costs the same as what the dealer has on the lot?
The NSX is still selling at roughly the same rate as the Audi R8. Problem with dealer cars is they're not necessarily optioned the way the customer wants them so they're skipping the dealer cars and ordering their exact features that they want. Why wouldn't you order a bespoke car if it costs the same as what the dealer has on the lot?
04-27-2017, 03:28 PM
#55
C'mon, man - Ferrari and Lambo vs Honda? That's not even reasonable. Way higher price points, for starters, plus a whole other level of cachet.
The NSX is still selling at roughly the same rate as the Audi R8. Problem with dealer cars is they're not necessarily optioned the way the customer wants them so they're skipping the dealer cars and ordering their exact features that they want. Why wouldn't you order a bespoke car if it costs the same as what the dealer has on the lot?
The NSX is still selling at roughly the same rate as the Audi R8. Problem with dealer cars is they're not necessarily optioned the way the customer wants them so they're skipping the dealer cars and ordering their exact features that they want. Why wouldn't you order a bespoke car if it costs the same as what the dealer has on the lot?
I think Acura dealers got greedy and dumb, and ordered a bunch of high-optioned NSXs and marked them up. Then when what little initial hype there was died down, nobody wanted to buy these NSXs sitting on dealer lots - even at MSRP - because why would you order a blue one with carbon this and that when you can just order the red one with only a few options that you want? If I was spending $160-200k on a supercar, I would get exactly what I want, not settle for "whatever's in stock" like it's an Accord or TLX.
04-27-2017, 03:49 PM
#56
No way in hell is this car as fast as a C6Z, especially at a course with long straights. 60% of the power, same weight or more, smaller tread width... this cannot be a production car.
04-27-2017, 05:42 PM
#57
Wouldn't be surprised if honda is running high boost/ slicks trim, i.e. pumping out closer to 400 horses.
04-27-2017, 05:51 PM
#58
04-28-2017, 07:06 AM
#59
Improved technology, downforce, balance and better tires...and lots of time and money to wring every last second out of it via a pro driver and a rented track.
04-28-2017, 07:51 AM
#60
The weight difference is less than 100 lbs. This car had to be a Ring'r. That is how we explain it, through some Honda marketing BS! Not that every other manufacturer isn't doing the same thing. The whole Ring thing is a joke IMO.
What do you mean by improved technology? They finally added a mechanical LSD up front, and now the car is so much faster through the turns that it runs down cars with 66% more power, even with huge long straights, even though it has skinny ass 245 tires? I actually like the car, but let's be realistic.
What do you mean by improved technology? They finally added a mechanical LSD up front, and now the car is so much faster through the turns that it runs down cars with 66% more power, even with huge long straights, even though it has skinny ass 245 tires? I actually like the car, but let's be realistic.