2019 Miata ND engine update - 181hp, 7500rpm redline.. your thoughts as an S2k owner?
#41
Couldn't have said it better. Light-weight road-legal cars are extremely uncommon today. To get one this cheap, this good, is a miracle.
#42
Thread Starter
S2000 was only R&D'ed for a couple years, by only the Honda engineers and a few celebrity race-car test drivers. Miata was R&D'ed by many different teams and different countries (US, Japan, Europe).
They put a lot of passion and R&D in the chassis and suspension of the Miata. The newest ND is very impressive engineering. Aluminum components galore, chassis and component strength where needed, weight loss where needed, advanced and well-engineered suspension geometry and characteristics.
Imo, S2000 is like an outdated Rwd Civic with an outdated modified B-series engine. It doesn't even have VTC like the K-series. It's just a modified B-series with coil-packs. The S2k chassis and suspension is twitchy, doesn't give much warning, too hyper-sensitive and can't even drift smoothly. (I know, I'm ragging on our beloved S2k too much, lol)
#43
I get people are still in love with the S2000 and we are talking about what Mazda has achieved almost 20 years later, but you get S2000 like hp to weight, you get a bespoke platform that is nearly Lotus Elise like in it's weight but with more torque per pound than the S2000, modern creature comforts and at a starting price almost $10k LESS than the S2000 debuted at 20 years ago. If that is not an achievement I don't know what is. Especially when there are few fun affordable RWD cars these day, let alone ones that offer a manual. You can also cruise at around 40mpg in real world highway driving.
That's not true. If you watch Miata development throughout 3 decades, it is apparent that a lot of passion was put into it (maybe even more so than the niche, overly-hyped and short-lived S2000)... especially the newest iteration, the ND.
S2000 was only R&D'ed for a couple years, by only the Honda engineers and a few celebrity race-car test drivers. Miata was R&D'ed by many different teams and different countries (US, Japan, Europe).
They put a lot of passion and R&D in the chassis and suspension of the Miata. The newest ND is very impressive engineering. Aluminum components galore, chassis and component strength where needed, weight loss where needed, advanced and well-engineered suspension geometry and characteristics.
Imo, S2000 is like an outdated Rwd Civic with an outdated modified B-series engine. It doesn't even have VTC like the K-series. It's just a modified B-series with coil-packs. The S2k chassis and suspension is twitchy, doesn't give much warning, too hyper-sensitive and can't even drift smoothly. (I know, I'm ragging on our beloved S2k too much, lol)
S2000 was only R&D'ed for a couple years, by only the Honda engineers and a few celebrity race-car test drivers. Miata was R&D'ed by many different teams and different countries (US, Japan, Europe).
They put a lot of passion and R&D in the chassis and suspension of the Miata. The newest ND is very impressive engineering. Aluminum components galore, chassis and component strength where needed, weight loss where needed, advanced and well-engineered suspension geometry and characteristics.
Imo, S2000 is like an outdated Rwd Civic with an outdated modified B-series engine. It doesn't even have VTC like the K-series. It's just a modified B-series with coil-packs. The S2k chassis and suspension is twitchy, doesn't give much warning, too hyper-sensitive and can't even drift smoothly. (I know, I'm ragging on our beloved S2k too much, lol)
And I'm a Mazda owner, currently owns a 2009 Mazdaspeed 3 and I absolutely love that car. But if you put the 2019 ND Miata, and an AP2 S2000 in front of me, I would most likely walk towards the Honda S2000.
#44
That's not true. If you watch Miata development throughout 3 decades, it is apparent that a lot of passion was put into it (maybe even more so than the niche, overly-hyped and short-lived S2000)... especially the newest iteration, the ND.
S2000 was only R&D'ed for a couple years, by only the Honda engineers and a few celebrity race-car test drivers. Miata was R&D'ed by many different teams and different countries (US, Japan, Europe).
They put a lot of passion and R&D in the chassis and suspension of the Miata. The newest ND is very impressive engineering. Aluminum components galore, chassis and component strength where needed, weight loss where needed, advanced and well-engineered suspension geometry and characteristics.
Imo, S2000 is like an outdated Rwd Civic with an outdated modified B-series engine. It doesn't even have VTC like the K-series. It's just a modified B-series with coil-packs. The S2k chassis and suspension is twitchy, doesn't give much warning, too hyper-sensitive and can't even drift smoothly. (I know, I'm ragging on our beloved S2k too much, lol)
S2000 was only R&D'ed for a couple years, by only the Honda engineers and a few celebrity race-car test drivers. Miata was R&D'ed by many different teams and different countries (US, Japan, Europe).
They put a lot of passion and R&D in the chassis and suspension of the Miata. The newest ND is very impressive engineering. Aluminum components galore, chassis and component strength where needed, weight loss where needed, advanced and well-engineered suspension geometry and characteristics.
Imo, S2000 is like an outdated Rwd Civic with an outdated modified B-series engine. It doesn't even have VTC like the K-series. It's just a modified B-series with coil-packs. The S2k chassis and suspension is twitchy, doesn't give much warning, too hyper-sensitive and can't even drift smoothly. (I know, I'm ragging on our beloved S2k too much, lol)
#45
The Miata is obviously a great car and I am glad they are sticking with it and moving it forward. But, for me, the s2k is the sweet spot. I love the looks of the S2k. Not so much the Miata. I love the rawness of the s2k. The only thing that tempts me at all is a well restored english roadster, (AH, Triumph, MG, etc.). To me the s2k is a luxury version of the old english roadsters. In my old age, and with my expanding waist line - the s2k is the sweet spot.
I think I'm repeating myself. When you boil it all down I think the number one problem for me is the appearance of the car which I do not like. Others love it. I get that.
I think I'm repeating myself. When you boil it all down I think the number one problem for me is the appearance of the car which I do not like. Others love it. I get that.
#46
Imo, S2000 is like an outdated Rwd Civic with an outdated modified B-series engine. It doesn't even have VTC like the K-series. It's just a modified B-series with coil-packs. The S2k chassis and suspension is twitchy, doesn't give much warning, too hyper-sensitive and can't even drift smoothly. (I know, I'm ragging on our beloved S2k too much, lol)
The "twitchiness" of the AP1 was due to a frankly stupid idea to have rear geometry resulting in toe change with bump. It's always been a terrible idea and it's never worked on other cars, I have no idea why they did it again with the AP1. For sure my (stock) AP1 isn't nearly as driftable as other FR cars I've owned/tracked (240Z, S13, S14, FD, BRZ). Supposedly fixed with AP2 I thought?
ANyway, good on Mazda for giving the Miata a much better performing engine. But it's WAY off the F20C mark...
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LUV2REV (08-27-2018)
#48
Any manufacturer could build a sportscar like the ND. But I feel confident in saying that nobody but Mazda 1. has the desire to build one, and 2. can make money off of it.
From the manufacturers' standpoint obviously point 2 is more important, but from an enthusiast's perspective I'm just thrilled that Mazda's still "got it." Much respect.
From the manufacturers' standpoint obviously point 2 is more important, but from an enthusiast's perspective I'm just thrilled that Mazda's still "got it." Much respect.
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Vitt (08-27-2018)
#49
My AP1 drifts just fine. Nothing like a car with a longer wheelbase, but I do not consider it "twitchy." Maybe you guys need to adjust your alignment settings. I have never given a Miata a second thought, and this new iteration won't change that. I do love the idea of it on paper though.
#50
Thread Starter
I think the appeal to liking the S2k more (I admit, I totally like its' simple looks much more too, as well as having an awesome Honda dohc vtec powerplant, which I've loved since the '90s), is because it's simply almost a classic and vintage car now, but still performs very well (unlike true vintage cars that are 30-50 years old, are super slow and cannot handle well at all). It is Raw and the appearance is simple, but effectively sexy.
To most '90s Japanese car lovers, the ND is much too new, too modern, etc. People like us, simply just like and are more used to a Raw performing car, with a minimal appearance and aesthetic (via an S2k).
If we took away all the modern amenities and styling-cues of the ND and made its' appearance and performance more '90s and raw... I am sure even more people would like it. But, this will be impossible (due to current and constantly changing automotive safety rules).
Anyways... here's a cool ND video:
To most '90s Japanese car lovers, the ND is much too new, too modern, etc. People like us, simply just like and are more used to a Raw performing car, with a minimal appearance and aesthetic (via an S2k).
If we took away all the modern amenities and styling-cues of the ND and made its' appearance and performance more '90s and raw... I am sure even more people would like it. But, this will be impossible (due to current and constantly changing automotive safety rules).
Anyways... here's a cool ND video:
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white98ls (08-27-2018)