2019 Miata ND engine update - 181hp, 7500rpm redline.. your thoughts as an S2k owner?
10-21-2018, 10:29 PM
#93
10-22-2018, 07:52 AM
#95
[QUOTE=s2000Junky;24524049]If A<b and b<c then a<c. I math good.
But in all seriousness, people have already discussed how the s2000 runs well against the na1 and na2 nsxs. The fastest production time for a Honda isnt even rwd anymore.
And keep in mind that the ND suspension setup is tuned very comfortably with relatively skinny tires.
But in all seriousness, people have already discussed how the s2000 runs well against the na1 and na2 nsxs. The fastest production time for a Honda isnt even rwd anymore.
And keep in mind that the ND suspension setup is tuned very comfortably with relatively skinny tires.
10-22-2018, 07:54 AM
#96
I'll take the new updated ND over a used "cheap" slowtus Elise 10 out of 10 times. Maintenance, replacement parts, warranty, aftermarket support, build quality, guarantee that there are no surprise fixes that will need to be done on my dime after purchase, real options for financing at less than 2.5% (why pay cash when you can borrow for "free") etc. will all be better. I don't need a "cool" or "special" car that attracts attention or that other people swoon over. I need something that I can drive for cheap on track at 9-10/10ths with very little worry for something going wrong and less attachment for WHEN something does go wrong.
Have you driven a "slowtus" (not sure why you're using that cute term when it's easily faster than both S2000 or ND - straights, corners, you name it)? There are reasons why they are still worth $30k+ (salvaged ones are still ~$25k) and little of it has to do with it being a cool/special car.
10-22-2018, 08:24 AM
#97
All those positives are equally true of a new Civic or Ford Fiesta... we get it, you don't want risk and that's fine.
Have you driven a "slowtus" (not sure why you're using that cute term when it's easily faster than both S2000 or ND - straights, corners, you name it)? There are reasons why they are still worth $30k+ (salvaged ones are still ~$25k) and little of it has to do with it being a cool/special car.
Have you driven a "slowtus" (not sure why you're using that cute term when it's easily faster than both S2000 or ND - straights, corners, you name it)? There are reasons why they are still worth $30k+ (salvaged ones are still ~$25k) and little of it has to do with it being a cool/special car.
it's definitely on a whole other level of visceral feeling and connection to the road, but I'd like to take a ride in an updated ND with coilovers and some proper summer tires. The Elise comes with AD07s oem, and while older, they definitely feel like a proper track tire.
my point being that the reason someone buys an Elise is mostly because it's cool/special/rare. It's essentially a street car that comes stripped from the factory. I'd like to think that an ND would be 90% there in feel and experience if you ripped out the interior and sound deadening material. People definitely aren't buying it for the motor or the transmission...
it's the same reason people buy an NA1/2 NSX when they can buy a 2009+ DI Cayman S... it's cool/special/rare.
anyway, it's just like my opinion man....
Also, the quality comparisons to a civic or fiesta are a bit exaggerated and over the top. You're not even trying when making that facetious argument. At least pick something rear wheel drive whose design intent isn't a basic economy commuter vehicle.
Last edited by Bullwings; 10-22-2018 at 08:27 AM.
10-22-2018, 08:54 AM
#98
I've ridden in one at the track, and have spent enough time following and passing them at the track in a mildly prepped s2k to fully believe that it is because it carries the Lotus brand name and because it is a cool/rare/special car that it commands the value that it does.
it's definitely on a whole other level of visceral feeling and connection to the road, but I'd like to take a ride in an updated ND with coilovers and some proper summer tires. The Elise comes with AD07s oem, and while older, they definitely feel like a proper track tire.
my point being that the reason someone buys an Elise is mostly because it's cool/special/rare. It's essentially a street car that comes stripped from the factory. I'd like to think that an ND would be 90% there in feel and experience if you ripped out the interior and sound deadening material. People definitely aren't buying it for the motor or the transmission...
it's the same reason people buy an NA1/2 NSX when they can buy a 2009+ DI Cayman S... it's cool/special/rare.
it's definitely on a whole other level of visceral feeling and connection to the road, but I'd like to take a ride in an updated ND with coilovers and some proper summer tires. The Elise comes with AD07s oem, and while older, they definitely feel like a proper track tire.
my point being that the reason someone buys an Elise is mostly because it's cool/special/rare. It's essentially a street car that comes stripped from the factory. I'd like to think that an ND would be 90% there in feel and experience if you ripped out the interior and sound deadening material. People definitely aren't buying it for the motor or the transmission...
it's the same reason people buy an NA1/2 NSX when they can buy a 2009+ DI Cayman S... it's cool/special/rare.
You compared Elise vs. ND to NSX vs. '09+ Cayman S. The problem with that argument the Elise actually does perform better (easily under 5sec to 60 is far ahead of S2000 or ND) and happens to weigh 500lbs+ less than an ND (non-RF) and 850lbs less than an AP1. It's also mid-engined.
You also said, "the reason someone buys an Elise is mostly because it's cool/special/rare." Okay, well I bought one after owning an S2000 and that was one of the least important reasons why - in fact, it would actually be nice if it didn't attract so much attention. I mainly bought it because it's just so focused on driving and nothing else. I hope I don't piss off too many S2000 owners here, but at least compared to a stock one (which I owned for 3.5 years and put 26k on), it drives totally differently. On a scale of 1-10 of steering feedback, the S2000 I felt was a 2, my M3 would be a 3.5, and for the Elise, I don't think 10 would do it justice. It's that good. Power/weight is much better than AP1 at any rpm. The handling is actually more forgiving as well, while sticking incredibly hard even on subobtimal tires. You sit incredibly low and close to the middle of the car. It's just an amazing experience, and it's incredible at $30-35k.
One thing that pushed me towards buying one was actually reading about Elise/Exige ownership experiences on the Ferrari boards. Pretty much everyone said it's the most fun thing out there. Surely not on the same level of "experience" that a Ferrari is, but in terms of pure driving enjoyment, most definitely up there. It makes everything else feel unnecessarily fat, big, lazy, and dull.
You're absolutely right that an ND or S2000 is a far more usable car day to day. They can take a fender bender without it being a major catastrophe, they're easy to get in and out of, and have respectable trunks. But for a second car for weekend fun drives only, I wanted something incredibly focused and intense with no compromises. The Elise fits that bill better than an ND or S2k and it has nothing to do with it being cool, special, or rare.
10-22-2018, 10:34 AM
#99
Thread Starter
10-22-2018, 10:41 AM
#100
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=TheDonEffect;24524180]
If A<b and b<c then a<c. I math good.
But in all seriousness, people have already discussed how the s2000 runs well against the na1 and na2 nsxs. The fastest production time for a Honda isnt even rwd anymore.
And keep in mind that the ND suspension setup is tuned very comfortably with relatively skinny tires.
Yup... a simple set of stiffer swaybars and stickier tires (it basically has FRS/BRZ tires almost for oem).. it would demolish a vintage and archaic S2k.
S2k has pretty sticky tires for oem
ND2 has all-seasons for oem... yet, it still pulls similar times as an aggressively-suspension-tuned-from-factory and sticky-tired S2k.
Now... add some nice coilovers to that ND2... it's game-over for that classic, mid-century, hot-rod S2k ;D
If A<b and b<c then a<c. I math good.
But in all seriousness, people have already discussed how the s2000 runs well against the na1 and na2 nsxs. The fastest production time for a Honda isnt even rwd anymore.
And keep in mind that the ND suspension setup is tuned very comfortably with relatively skinny tires.
S2k has pretty sticky tires for oem
ND2 has all-seasons for oem... yet, it still pulls similar times as an aggressively-suspension-tuned-from-factory and sticky-tired S2k.
Now... add some nice coilovers to that ND2... it's game-over for that classic, mid-century, hot-rod S2k ;D