2019 Miata ND engine update - 181hp, 7500rpm redline.. your thoughts as an S2k owner? - S2KI Honda S2000 Forums

Go Back  S2KI Honda S2000 Forums > General Interest > Car Talk
Reload this Page >

2019 Miata ND engine update - 181hp, 7500rpm redline.. your thoughts as an S2k owner?

Notices
Car Talk Discussions and comparisions of cars of all makes and models.

2019 Miata ND engine update - 181hp, 7500rpm redline.. your thoughts as an S2k owner?

Old 08-14-2018, 09:36 PM
  #1  
Thread Starter
 
Jah2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Cali
Posts: 908
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Default 2019 Miata ND engine update - 181hp, 7500rpm redline.. your thoughts as an S2k owner?

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-details-news/

2019 Miata ND gets a pretty big engine update - pretty much every engine internal (that matters) was modified - lighter pistons and rods, reformed crankshaft, modified valve opening angle (I assume ported heads), valve lift (higher lift cams), stiffer valve-springs, bigger throttle body (intake manifold too? idk.. but most likely), bigger exhaust manifold, higher flow exhaust, improved injectors, improved throttle pedal, more head-flow all-around, etc.

181hp peak at 7000rpm (previous peak was 6000rpm), redline at 7500rpm (previous was 6800rpm redline). Torque only +3 more than before; but 600rpm earlier now.

Sounds like a lot of mods. So I assume they left a lot of headroom for more high-rpm reliability and maybe the base-tune is conservative and redline was set lower at 7500 for reliability.

To me, as an S2k owner and a long-time lover of high-revving Honda engines, this is super exciting and good news. You?
Jah2000 is offline  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:27 PM
  #2  
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: PNW
Posts: 117
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Yep, I'm going to test drive one. I'm getting to the end of my days owning a manual due to back problems, so an automatic ND2 is pretty interesting in the revised form.

Last edited by ragtophardtop; 08-15-2018 at 10:26 AM.
ragtophardtop is offline  
Old 08-15-2018, 04:29 AM
  #3  
 
tiger1964's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seabrook, MD
Posts: 1,217
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Default

I've been gone form the Miata community for over a decade but if the car is still light, this sounds good. I recall reading the ND, as introduced, was significantly lighter than the outgoing NC.
tiger1964 is offline  
Old 08-15-2018, 06:32 AM
  #4  
Registered User
 
Nerd-Vol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 370
Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tiger1964 View Post
I've been gone form the Miata community for over a decade but if the car is still light, this sounds good. I recall reading the ND, as introduced, was significantly lighter than the outgoing NC.
The ND is very light indeed as low as 2332 lbs. Very impressive as that’s aroubd what some of the later NA’s weighed around if I remember correctly.

The ND was already peppy and good fun, this ND2 should be a riot. I do wonder if it will show on paper and to the potential customer. When I sold Mazda’s, I actually had people who were considering the Boxster and Jaguar F-Type stop in. I thought it was a silly comparison as the prices were so distant along with the power, but they still wanted to have a try. In that regard, more power will help.
Nerd-Vol is offline  
Old 08-15-2018, 10:25 AM
  #5  
Thread Starter
 
Jah2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Cali
Posts: 908
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Default


@5:30 …you can see they also have changed the intake-manifold plenum size, design and airflow. The runners are also shortened. The porting and angles on the head looks changed as well (pretty much a completely new head design).

Seems like very great lengths to improve the same car within the same (ND) generation! …this great effort really reminds me of when they were improving the S2k every other year… from MY00/01 to MY02/03 to MY04/05, etc. I think that’s so awesome!

Miata is really doing it right! And also a good influence to other car manufacturers - make future generations LIGHTER! …and also now, make future generations more REV HAPPY!

Bravo Mazda Miata!

I wish Honda would take notes from this.
Jah2000 is offline  
Old 08-15-2018, 11:27 AM
  #6  
Registered User
 
IA-SteveB's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 340
Thanked 34 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Interesting. I haven't ever paid attention to Miatas but these are pretty nice looking. Much more masculine looking.
IA-SteveB is offline  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:44 PM
  #7  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 300
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Default

It's really tempting me as a someone who is looking for a new toy. Before, it was a no brainer to go with a used AP2 Honda S2000, but now with this updated engine... oooooo

(used) Honda S2000 AP2:
PROS:
- It looks better to me with cleaner lines
- No nonsense electronic nanny (pre-2006 models)
- F22C, still a more potent engine and proven reliability
- Suspension setup is pretty much spot on from factory
- Mid-engine (more so than the ND Miata)
- There's passion oozing through this car from the engineers and developers.
CONS:
- Same cons as buying any other older used car
- No warranty
- Difficult to finance, if not expensive
- Low mileage will cost almost as much as a brand new ND Miata

2019+ ND Miata
PROS:
- MUCH lighter
- Apparently, ridiculously good fuel efficient for what it is
- New car amenities, modern creature comforts
- Ease of financing, wouldn't be surprised if you can get 0% financing in the near future.
CONS:
- Updated motor is still no F22C
- The designers forgot about the rear of the car
- Factory suspension setup is not my cup of tea
- It's still not as special as a Honda S2000
Say Chi Sin Lo is offline  
Old 08-15-2018, 01:32 PM
  #8  
Registered User
 
Nerd-Vol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 370
Thanked 16 Times in 14 Posts
Default

I also wonder if this means if we will see a bunch of nice NA1s come in on trade. At the dealer I worked for we did not see a ton of nice NA’s-NC’s traded on the ND.
Nerd-Vol is offline  
Old 08-16-2018, 11:01 AM
  #9  
Thread Starter
 
Jah2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Cali
Posts: 908
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Default

Power:weight ratios are very close now:

ND:
Softtop: 2332lb/181hp = 12.9lb/hp
RF: 2445/181 = 13.5

S2k:
AP1: 2756/237 = 11.6
AP2: 2864/237 = 12.1


Torque:weight ratio:
Obviously, with the same torque #s and lower weight (at a lower rpm too), the ND will feel much more peppy and torquey.


Also, keep in mind, and as we all know, it is super hard to modify an S2k engine to make more power in NA form (because it is already highly engineered and tuned to give max output from factory... Unlike say a K engine). Now, what if an ND2 engine has much more potential over stock form (like a K engine)? Hmmm... it just may have potential like a highly-tunable K engine.
Jah2000 is offline  
Old 08-16-2018, 11:25 AM
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 300
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Jah2000 View Post
Power:weight ratios are very close now:

ND:
Softtop: 2332lb/181hp = 12.9lb/hp
RF: 2445/181 = 13.5

S2k:
AP1: 2756/237 = 11.6
AP2: 2864/237 = 12.1

Torque:weight ratio:
Obviously, with the same torque #s and lower weight (at a lower rpm too), the ND will feel much more peppy and torquey.

Also, keep in mind, and as we all know, it is super hard to modify an S2k engine to make more power in NA form (because it is already highly engineered and tuned to give max output from factory... Unlike say a K engine). Now, what if an ND2 engine has much more potential over stock form (like a K engine)? Hmmm... it just may have potential like a highly-tunable K engine.
But we don't know that, do we? While we know the F20C/F22C are pretty much maxed out and well engineered to have high performance, we also know through time that this thing is bulletproof.

New Miata engine? We don't know just how bulletproof it is yet.
Say Chi Sin Lo is offline  

Quick Reply: 2019 Miata ND engine update - 181hp, 7500rpm redline.. your thoughts as an S2k owner?


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands